'World class'?

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by themyth, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. themyth

    themyth New Member

    I've been having this talk with friends and also on the forum. I would like to see from all the arsenal fans out there who in Arsenal is of 'world class' standard and what does it mean to be world class?
    I believe World Class to be able to make it on the world stage consistently ie World Cup and European cups and to an extent league (although which league is debatable) etc and can also have an impact on these games
    Players from Arsenal who I think are 'world class': Lehmann, Toure, Fabregas, Gilberto, Henry
    Players from England who are 'world class': Gerrard, Lampard (yes the fat lampard), Terry, Rooney (not in 'world class form').
    So what does it take to be 'world class' standard? And who from Arsenal and England (or anywhere else really) do you say to be world class?
     
  2. The Mini

    The Mini New Member

    I dont really define World Class, I have found its easier not to, it is something that is. However, World Class, I think is someone who can play the best in the world and still hold their own. Someone who consistently shines above the rest at every level. According to my definition, Watford could be called World Class.
     
  3. hellolo

    hellolo New Member

    I think world class get's branded too easily, it's something that should be rare... therefore i say Henry, Lehmann (maybe, not that many great goalkeepers at the moment) and Gallas are our only worldclass players
    As for the England squad.... maybe Cashley but he's form is quite **** atm
     
  4. asajoseph

    asajoseph New Member Elite

    For me, it's a term that is too obviously subjective to have any real meaning, so unless it's indisputable (e.g. Henry or Ronaldingho), I try to avoid using it altogether.

    I've seen too many arguments over whether or not X player is 'World Class', which simply come down to two people having different definitions of what it means in the first place.
     
  5. oOTruGunNaOo

    oOTruGunNaOo New Member

    I think the only world class players we have are henry, lehmann, fab( because he proved himself in the champs leeg, world cup and epl) and gallas
     
  6. hollow

    hollow New Member

    The term world class is hugely subjective. My personal definition is a player who has consistantly performed at the highest level. Using that definition my list four the Prem top 4 is

    Arsenal
    Henry, Gilberto, Gallas, Toure, Lehmann

    Chelsea
    Shevchenko, Ballack, Makelele, Cole, Terry, Cech

    Liverpool
    Gerrard, Alonso

    Man U
    Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Neville

    A few notable exceptions
    Rooney - Hasn't scored a competetive international goal since 2004. Overhyped.

    Lampard - Very average midfielder who takes a lot of shots.

    Fabregas/RVP/J Cole - Has the potential but not there yet.

    Scholes/Giggs/van der Saar/Ljungberg - Past it.

    And yes do think Neville is world class. Limited, but check the medals, he's an important cog. Complete pratt though.
     
  7. arsenalule

    arsenalule New Member

    When worldclass is definined quantitativly you'll have your answer; whether that could ever happen is another matter all together. There are too many variables/factors to computate- and even then if it were able to be done, my bet is that players who usually go without a mention would appear; the list would surprise many.

    For example, I think that Ledley King is the only worldclass english defender and probably only one of approx. only 10 in the world (obviously i've set a mark for worldclass by even suggesting a 'worldclass' player). Interesting though is that he isn't even allowed to line in defence for england as an automatic first...
     
  8. anesumachoko

    anesumachoko New Member

    nevile is not world class he isan average right back who cashed on playing for unted, l od not think , , he is better than,,eboue,lauren,migel the list is endless
     
  9. Premiership Poker

    Premiership Poker New Member

    anesumachoko

    I think Neville is underated. I agree with the earlier post that the medals must speak for themselves.

    He doesn't take the fame or the glory and therefore people think he is ****e because of that. But a team takes all sorts of players and he is about the less glamourous side to the game - much in the way Makalele is a hero at Chelski.

    As for the Arse - only a few are truly world class imo

    Henry
    Gallas
    RvP
    Fabregas
    Kolo

    and Eboue has the potential to be a Lilian thuram - saw a post on another site about Wenger having LT at Monaco - could be a similar player imo.

    PP
     
  10. agnishevchenko

    agnishevchenko New Member

    too abstract! there's this one guy i know, he claims that Crouch is World Class!
    personally, Henry is WC in Arsenal, Cashley was(now i hope he rots)..
    Ronaldinho, Kaka are WC..
    Sheva was until he signed for Chelski..
     
  11. BigBoss

    BigBoss New Member

    Pfffff really too abstract. I think one can say that a player is world class when the latter is at the peak of his career...Saying cesc is world class when he can get much better still is not very logic...He rather has the potential.....I would judge a player to be world class either when the player has already retired or is near retirement....

    And considering that some were even slamming henry at the start of the season, I think being world class is sometimes not enough....
     
  12. Premiership Poker

    Premiership Poker New Member

    Why does a player need to be near to retirement to be world class?

    IMO if a player could "walk" into any first team at both club and international level then that is world class.

    To me Cesc would be able to do that - even if he was at Chelsea, Barce or Madrid i think he would get a regular place in the side - as he would at international level - much in the same way that Vieira was wanted by all the big clubs. Just because he can improve with age doesn't mean he's not world class now

    PP
     
  13. qs

    qs New Member Elite

    On our team:

    Henry
    Fabregas
    Gallas
    Toure
    maybe Lehmann
    at a push Rosicky

    van Persie, Eboue, Djourou, Senderos all have the potantial to be World Class.

    I dont Gilberto ever went that final step to become world class. I dont think you can be a world class defensive mid. I think you need that other side to your game that Vieira and KEane had to be world class.

    Gerrard definitly is. He turns in World Class performances all the time and especially on the big occassion. Thats what gets you remembered and thats what makes you a legend.

    When has Lampard ever put in a top notch performance. He has moments but he's not influential or hard working enough.

    From our rivals I think Rooney, CRonaldo, Ballack, Scheva, Essein, Cech, Carragher, Ferdinand.

    At Sp**s....haw haw.
     
  14. qs

    qs New Member Elite

    Exactamundo.

    Thats why I think Rooney, Cesc, Ronaldo, etc are all World Class.
     
  15. biglunn

    biglunn New Member

    IMO, the ONLY players at Arsenal that I believe are World Class are Lehmann, Henry, and Gallas.

    The rest are very very good, but not World Class.... which is a term that is used far too much in football.

    Toure is VERY close to being World Class, Gilberto is a superb player but not World Class, and the likes of Eboue, Fabregas, Rosicky have got great potential to be World Class.
     
  16. Premiership Poker

    Premiership Poker New Member

    qs

    I think Rooney and Ronaldo are good players - but for me a world class player has the ability to produce week in week out and more often than not season after season.

    Rooney and Ronaldo are the type of players where they're form will have ups and downs - this happens a lot with flair players.

    Makalele is a world class player - no coincidence that wherever he goes the side he plays for wins the title - i also think he makes JT and fat Frank look a lot better than they are because he gives them both a lot of protection - particulatly lumpalard going forward.

    For me often the unsung hero in the side is the truly world class player - not just the glory hunters!
     
  17. qs

    qs New Member Elite

    Name a team in the World where Rooney wouldnt walk into it? Ronaldo is a horrible little prick but he's still a good footballer. Last year I'd have said he wasn't WC but now I think he's coming into his own. I may be wrong, maybe its just form.

    United finished 2 places above us last year though. Theyre squad players are **** and theyre other decent players are over the hill. Without Rooney and Ronaldo where would they be? Those 2 are that team, thats what makes them World Class.

    You take Rooney out and put Makelele in and they'd do **** all. As good as he is Makelele wont win you a match.
     
  18. BigBoss

    BigBoss New Member

    Well everyone has his own opinion...But I think that you can qualify a player as being world class only by checking his achievements etc thing that a player can't do at the beginning of his career....What has rooney, ronaldo and cesc achieved till today...Compare it to henry's achievement and you will understand what I mean....

    World cup
    World cup final
    CL final
    Top scorer ever for AFC
    Near to platini's record for france
    Captain at AFC
    Can change a match on his own and has done it many a times even against the bests....And the list goes on...

    Now compare this with Rooney for ex....And in football it is not like either you are worldclass or not worldclass...For ex cesc rooney etc are wonderkids....Toure, gilberto are very good players while the likes of Henry, Lehman are worldclass...

    And according to your statement their are only eleven players who can be worldclass and would start at any team?....
     
  19. croatia_gooner_girl

    croatia_gooner_girl New Member

    i dont like that 'world class' separation...then those players who became 'world class',also became full of them selves,and stuff like that...look c.ronaldo for example...and then when they have a bad day,and play bad,reporters and people are on them...thats big responsability...you always have to be the best...i know that,cause after CL finals,papers here in cro were writeing that "henry wore barca's shirt under arsenal's"...

    so,ill just say that all players have good moments,bad moments,and great moments...its not on us to judge them by one or two games...

    course,henry is the best...
     
  20. rosickymozart121

    rosickymozart121 New Member

    the question, " is a player world class" always throws up interesting comments when posed. i like others feel that the the term "world class" is used too often especially with regards to the english national side and even players from premiership. because of this the term"world class" has been diluted and has not got the influence it once had over the football world.

    to me there is clear difference between a world class player and a wonderkid. because players from both categories have similar impacts in the modern game a wonderkid can often be labelled a world class player while still in the early stages of their careers.

    world class in arsenal:
    lehmann, gallas, rosicky, henry

    " " Man Utd: no one just two wonderkids

    " " Chelsea: Cech, Cole, makelele, ballack, shevchenko

    " "England team: cole, gerrard

    some people may be shocked not to see John terry. but the truth is hes won the premieship two times when the opposition was not at its strongest (man utd - keane, arsenal -vieira). in europe "JT" has always been found out (champions league ronaldinho goal last season) and in the WC he put in at least 3 out of 5 embarrasing performances where again he was found wanting. JT is not any closer if not further from world class than kolo who is consistent on every stage( champions league world cup)
     

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