Would be "Spectacular" if Henry joined Barca -Cesc

[sabret00the]

you know what i love about you calling him an "overrated brat" shadow, it's that if he's overrated and is bettering Gilberto, what does that make Gilberto?

An off form world class player. He may not be the best passer out there but he does a lot more than he's given credit for. I hardly ever complain about him but I admit he got on my nerves after some passes agianst Pool on tuesday. Honestly, the only different starter in our team from the unbeaten season and last is Cesc. How most of you fail to see this is beyond me. Some have(like the article you posted), Sky & BBC pundits

that's pathetic, Wenger has decided to go with a Cesc-esque brand of football and Gilberto is unable to adapt, that's not form, that's inability, when you add that to his listed attributes and the clear inabilities they show, they don't show world class, they show average, less than average, they show a wait around the shoulders of a team that's better than that.

however if you're that sure of Gilberto's ability, show me his stats for the past 4 seasons at this time of year and let's see if it really is a blip or not.

 

[Shadow Moses]

An off form world class player. He may not be the best passer out there but he does a lot more than he's given credit for. I hardly ever complain about him but I admit he got on my nerves after some passes agianst Pool on tuesday. Honestly, the only different starter in our team from the unbeaten season and last is Cesc. How most of you fail to see this is beyond me. Some have(like the article you posted), Sky & BBC pundits

how the hell did you manage to miss out on viera leaving us this summer?

djeez, your award is really well earned :shock:

can you read? The only difference is Cesc. That is, Vieira left and Cesc is the only new player. Every other person is there. Reading and understanding too difficult for you?

 

[Shadow Moses]

in your defence, shadow, the mirror article did use quotes, and in fact quoted cesc at length.

it would seem strange that the entire quote they cited was made up. but if so, youd think some sort of legal action could be threatened in the future.

Yep. the Mirror did quote him. So dunno which one's lying but he has denied saying anything so..

 

[famous no 10]

I really wish these tabloid f**k pigs would leave us alone just for a week or so...if it's not bad enough with the real things happening they have to make it worse with bs.

What a f**king season.

 

[Shadow Moses]

you know what i love about you calling him an "overrated brat" shadow, it's that if he's overrated and is bettering Gilberto, what does that make Gilberto?

An off form world class player. He may not be the best passer out there but he does a lot more than he's given credit for. I hardly ever complain about him but I admit he got on my nerves after some passes agianst Pool on tuesday. Honestly, the only different starter in our team from the unbeaten season and last is Cesc. How most of you fail to see this is beyond me. Some have(like the article you posted), Sky & BBC pundits

that's pathetic, Wenger has decided to go with a Cesc-esque brand of football and Gilberto is unable to adapt, that's not form, that's inability, when you add that to his listed attributes and the clear inabilities they show, they don't show world class, they show average, less than average, they show a wait around the shoulders of a team that's better than that.

however if you're that sure of Gilberto's ability, show me his stats for the past 4 seasons at this time of year and let's see if it really is a blip or not.

Don't quote me out of context. If you want to argue, include Captain's post as well 'cos I was about to post a somewhat similar post regarding Cesc and his defensive ability before deciding to copy and paste it. I do not believe Cesc is capable of the job becuase his defensive abilities are too limited. I hardly look at stats because IMO they are very deceptive and can be presented easily to match someone's point of view. What I do know is the years we've been playing decent and strong tacklers in the center, with ability to make better defensive judgements we've been very solid. The years also had the player most here dislike so much(Gilberto). Roll back the years and see for yourself. Like I said earlier, the difference is Cesc and I stand by my posts that he's incapable of defending. The Vieira/Cesc partnership didn't work last season and people said so many things about Vieira. Gilberto came back, partnered Vieira and he became the hero. This season Gilberto is having his head called for because of the same partner that led to so much Vieira hate. Both times the man causing the heat on experienced player was Cesc, but somehow this has evaded most of you.

 

[choi12911]

you know what i love about you calling him an "overrated brat" shadow, it's that if he's overrated and is bettering Gilberto, what does that make Gilberto?

An off form world class player. He may not be the best passer out there but he does a lot more than he's given credit for. I hardly ever complain about him but I admit he got on my nerves after some passes agianst Pool on tuesday. Honestly, the only different starter in our team from the unbeaten season and last is Cesc. How most of you fail to see this is beyond me. Some have(like the article you posted), Sky & BBC pundits

that's pathetic, Wenger has decided to go with a Cesc-esque brand of football and Gilberto is unable to adapt, that's not form, that's inability, when you add that to his listed attributes and the clear inabilities they show, they don't show world class, they show average, less than average, they show a wait around the shoulders of a team that's better than that.

however if you're that sure of Gilberto's ability, show me his stats for the past 4 seasons at this time of year and let's see if it really is a blip or not.

Don't quote me out of context. If you want to argue, include Captain's post as well 'cos I was about to post a somewhat similar post regarding Cesc and his defensive ability before deciding to copy and paste it. I do not believe Cesc is capable of the job becuase his defensive abilities are too limited. I hardly look at stats because IMO the are very deceptive and can be presented easily to match someone's point of view. What I do know is the years we've been playing decent and strong tackles in the center, with ability to make better defensive judgements we've been very solid. The years also had the player most here dislike so much(Gilberto). Roll back the years and see for yourself. Like I said earlier, the difference is Cesc and I stand by my posts that he's incapable of defending. The Vieira/Cesc partnership didn't work last season and people said so many things about Vieira. Gilberto came back, partnered Vieira and he became the hero. This season Gilberto is having his head called for because of the same partner the led to so much Vieira hate. Both times the man causing the heat on experienced player was Cesc, but somehow this has evaded most of you.

Yeah interesting argument. But what we don't know is that if those two players' dip in form (Viera and Gilberto) was ACTUALLY because of Cesc. Viera may have been off the form, because he got too comfortable here and was looking to play elsewhere. Gilberto may have just lost it completely, because he's ****.

I don't know. What I want to see is Diaby and Cesc in the middle. Both are very much attacking minded CMs, but if Wenger can get them to be involved in defending much more, I'm sure it can work out great. If Diaby looks like he's underperforming alongside Cesc, then...we can conclude that we've been suffering that extra "presence" in the midfield, because of Cesc's small stature. Until then....

 

[Shadow Moses]

Cesc/Diaby partnership. Wouldn't that be interesting. Like I said in another thread I can already predict the outcome..

A cry for Diaby's head

 

[patrick42uk]

just had a look at OPTA and they make interesting reading. gilberto does very well statistically if OPTA is anything to go by. best tackler in our team which is a concern, more on that later. he has attempted 82 tackles with 73% accuracy. makelele has a 69% acuracy with about 60 attempted. i compare him with makelele because IMO they are similar in terms of roles they would prefer . i think the designated dm role suits a 4-3-3. the dm doesnt necessarily need to tackle because that burden is shared rather equally (acording to chelsea's stats) by the 3 central players. nor does he need to dominate passing because thats handled by the other two cms. the concern for us is when we look at 4-4-2 teams. liverpool and newcastle have sissoko and parker who have both attempted over 110 tackles and i dont think either would have played as much as gilberto or cesc. 4-4-2 clearly requires a player with good stamina who gets about imposing himself in all areas of the pitch. we'v lacked that this season. flamini is in that mould but he doesnt play enough and maybe isnt strong enough. liverpool have this interesting balance where xabi alonso is the holding midfielder who dominates the passing (he has attempted the most with the highest success in his team) and sissoko is box to box doing a lot of the dirty work, dominating the tackling. petit-vieira similarities?

fabregas is the best passer in our team as the 'box to box' player and gilberto the best tackler in the dm role. since evidence suggests gilberto's tackles falls short of the required amount i think its a fairly imbalanced partnership (for 4-4-2). gilberto's passing stats are similar to fabregas' and alonso but he isnt the same type of dm as alonso who plays far more forward passes.

i think outside of a 4-3-3/4-5-1 or next to someone with great stamina and precence, gilberto probably shouldnt play at all. in a midfield 2, having a player who isnt exceptional at tackling or passing is probably creating an imbalance in the team.

i'd give the diaby cesc partnership a go but not quite yet. diaby needs to be at full fitness and probably needs a few more sessions with keown to be the terrier that the partnership would require.

 

[oreo]

You know why Gilberto's tackle is 79%? Because he doesn't do sliding tackles, he just stick his whole leg in and when he misses the ball, the opponent trips over him because he doesn't withdraw his leg.

 

[Tegh]

True, and he likes to join in double-team molestations.

He's been crap this season, OPTA's stats are deceiving, therefore crap, and he can't pass for sh!t.

 

[Captain]

a 'tackle' is when you win the ball. When he makes a cynical challenge (hanging his leg out) it goes into the 'fouls' column.

The stats aren't wrong at all. If you stop looking for mistakes you may actually realise the sterling work that Gilberto does for us (and that's despite his personal form being below par this year).

 

[patrick42uk]

a 'tackle' is when you win the ball. When he makes a cynical challenge (hanging his leg out) it goes into the 'fouls' column.

The stats aren't wrong at all. If you stop looking for mistakes you may actually realise the sterling work that Gilberto does for us (and that's despite his personal form being below par this year).

i agree. i do feel though that gilberto needs to be next to a more active partner than fabregas. just seen sissoko against united and you can tell the stats dont lie about him. he puts in tackles in every part of the pitch. maybe we should try gilberto and flamini? i dont think fabregas is that indispensable.

 

[Captain]

Sissoko is a monster!!

He was everywhere today, i couldn't believe it. I would like to see his stats for that game, because I'm sure he covered every blade pf grass and made nearly all of Liverpool's tackles.

Good game.

 

[patrick42uk]

the mistake wenger made for me, if it was delibrate, was to try to impose a technical game in a physical league by partnering cesc with gilberto. a sissoko, who might not have fabregas like vision, would probably be worth more to us than fabregas. you play your technical players wide and use brute force centrally.

the pattern for 4-4-2 teams (at least the succesful ones) is there statistically. they all have players putting in over 100 tackles e.g. joey barton, robbie savage, hayden mullins. the real exceptions are tottenham and wigan but both teams play effectively with 4 cms as a unit where again the workload can be shared even more so than in a 3 man midfield.