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Would it be so bad

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
I'm not talking about him as a defensive central midfielder.

As for judging him a failure after one season, I wonder what you might have been saying about Bobby Pires in the summer of 2001...
 

the dawn raids

Established Member
asajoseph said:
"[Would it be so bad] going into the new season with these striking options if we use the money to make significant improvements in the areas of the team that are lacking?

yeah, if we were using that money to go straight back into the team then it would be different. but banking on that money to be funneled back in would be a hell of a gamble, and frankly weve been gambling enough as it is the last few seasons. ade stays.
 

sabret00the

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
I'm not talking about him as a defensive central midfielder.

As for judging him a failure after one season, I wonder what you might have been saying about Bobby Pires in the summer of 2001...

I think the fact that Wenger has come out and said that Nasri will make a great DM, is kinda what has caused this problem. It's kinda undermined his whole ability to make it as a winger here.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
the dawn raids said:
asajoseph said:
"[Would it be so bad] going into the new season with these striking options if we use the money to make significant improvements in the areas of the team that are lacking?

yeah, if we were using that money to go straight back into the team then it would be different. but banking on that money to be funneled back in would be a hell of a gamble, and frankly weve been gambling enough as it is the last few seasons. ade stays.

Like him or not though Ade is a matchwinner. Every great team needs a few of those. Admittedly we could sell Ade and buy a couple of very solid squad players but ideally I don't want to lose the 20+ goals and physical pressence of Ade - kind of priceless to us. Although RVP and Eduardo are quality I don't have the same faith in them to cause a threat as Ade.

We could play Arshavin behind a striker but we would need to sign a brilliant player to play Arshavins role on the wing. I would go as far to say it would be a disaster to start the season without Ade.
 

AshburtonGhost

Well-Known Member
Do you really think Ade is a matchwinner? Is he the kind of guy you can consistently rely on when the chips are down to win you a game from nothing? I'd say he is a very effective player when working hard, but doesn't fulfill the criterior of a typical matchwinning player ala Arshavin, Henry, Pires etc.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Do we trust him enough if he says he wants to stay & commit to the club?
Which Ade are we likely to get? I don't want us to commit to playing him as the lone striker & then have to carry him for more than half a season because his attitude turns to sh*t again.

Since TH left he's become the centre of our attack - I think he's the only current striker not to have been played out of a central position. IMO his approach to the game last season was based around him being a finisher for our moves, and as such he stifles a lot of our attacking potential regarding our fluidity in the final 3rd. As the lone striker he needs to be able to go wide & put himself about, but not with the almost sole purpose of creating opportunities for himself to score. This is a concern for me that I don't think Ade understands or is not willing to grasp = he may be the lone striker but he is not our lone goal scorer in that formation. I think his expectation that he is the lone goal scorer actually discourages player movement off the ball in the final 3rd, as more often than not his first 'instinct' is to look for the opportunity for himself, as opposed to keeping the movement fluid. If he stays I fully expect to see words exchanged between him & AA.

I don't think we had too many goal scoring options available when Ade scored his 30 goals - not just because of injuries to our forward line, but also in the supporting cast around him = Diaby & Eboue on the flanks & Hleb in the hole - as a consequence nearly everything went to him by default as there were no other options.

We've seen now that with AA we can score without relying upon Ade as exclusively as 2 seasons ago, and as a consequence I doubt that Ade will ever be in a position to score much more than 20 goals per season unless he improves his conversion rates & reduces his offsides. I can't stress enough the impact of the offsides upon a possession passing style of play - not only are they a cheap handover of possession, but they are mentally sapping in terms of building pressure to create a goal scoring opportunity. As a detriment to our play IMO they are on a par with the aimless crosses from the flanks.

Personally I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have a player who better understood the role, a better team player that looks firstly to keep the movement fluid and is prepared to utilise & encourage other players to score. I don't think the issue is about any potential inability to replace him as a goal scorer, but whether our attack would improve without him.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
AshburtonGhost said:
Do you really think Ade is a matchwinner? Is he the kind of guy you can consistently rely on when the chips are down to win you a game from nothing? I'd say he is a very effective player when working hard, but doesn't fulfill the criterior of a typical matchwinning player ala Arshavin, Henry, Pires etc.
Even if you just take a few moments such as his winner at old trafford 3 years back, his superb volley and Sp**s a couple of years back, his tap in against liverpool when theo took out their whole team (not a match winner i suppose) to his amazing volley against Villareal this year. There have been numerous times where he has pulled something out of the bag. Ade has the tools to cause any defence/defenders problems but also the technique to score goals from very little. I honestly only see him, Arshavin and RVP (in that order) as our main matchwinners.
 

AshburtonGhost

Well-Known Member
A few spectacular goals don't equate to a top class matchwinner for mine. He doesn't have the overall ability to turn a match around when nothing is going for us and has shown that repeatedly over the past few seasons. I would argue that Fabregas has a better claim at being a matchwinner than Ade, actually putting us in front at Sp**s in 07/08, scoring against Milan etc.
 

otfgoon

Established Member
AshburtonGhost said:
A few spectacular goals don't equate to a top class matchwinner for mine. He doesn't have the overall ability to turn a match around when nothing is going for us and has shown that repeatedly over the past few seasons. I would argue that Fabregas has a better claim at being a matchwinner than Ade, actually putting us in front at Sp**s in 07/08, scoring against Milan etc.

There are very, very few players in the world that have the ability to turn a match around by themselves.
 

AshburtonGhost

Well-Known Member
There are plenty with the ability to influence games strongly and repeatedly lift their team out of holes when required to do so. Henry, Gerrard, Ronaldo and even Arshavin are a few examples. If you mean someone who will score length of the field solo goals every time then yes, I'm sure there are few, if any. Adebayor is highly effective, but too hit and miss to be given that sort of credit.
 

otfgoon

Established Member
AshburtonGhost said:
There are plenty with the ability to influence games strongly and repeatedly lift their team out of holes when required to do so. Henry, Gerrard, Ronaldo and even Arshavin are a few examples. If you mean someone who will score length of the field solo goals every time then yes, I'm sure there are few, if any. Adebayor is highly effective, but too hit and miss to be given that sort of credit.

They are not just a few examples, thats pretty much it along with maybe 2 or 3 other players (and its been a while since Theirry had that effect on a game).

I agree that Ade does not fit into that category I'm just saying there are not many who do, and those that do cost a lot of money (see Ronaldo/Kaka).
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
AshburtonGhost said:
A few spectacular goals don't equate to a top class matchwinner for mine. He doesn't have the overall ability to turn a match around when nothing is going for us and has shown that repeatedly over the past few seasons. I would argue that Fabregas has a better claim at being a matchwinner than Ade, actually putting us in front at Sp**s in 07/08, scoring against Milan etc.

i'm just pulling out moments. There have been many times when Sde has changed a game. Just two more from last season West ham at home when he came off the bench and City at home when he tore them apart after coming back from injury. It is much less frequent that cesc will produce a match winning moment.
 

Anzac

Established Member
It's also about horses for courses.
As much as we've talked about square pegs from AW, IMO our attacking play these past few seasons has been geared towards suiting Ade (and I'm not saying that it's deliberate). Consequently he's the player best suited to taking advantage of that - such as coming off the bench v W Ham.
 

sesquioxide

Well-Known Member
AshburtonGhost said:
A few spectacular goals don't equate to a top class matchwinner for mine. He doesn't have the overall ability to turn a match around when nothing is going for us and has shown that repeatedly over the past few seasons.

Portsmouth, at home, 0-2 down. He came on and we managed to tie it up.

Or a certain Villareal game, where we looked truly bereft of ideas.

You are being very selective in your memory.
 

sesquioxide

Well-Known Member
Anzac said:
It's also about horses for courses.
As much as we've talked about square pegs from AW, IMO our attacking play these past few seasons has been geared towards suiting Ade (and I'm not saying that it's deliberate). Consequently he's the player best suited to taking advantage of that - such as coming off the bench v W Ham.

Our attacking style has not been geared towards suiting Adebayor. It is decided entirely to accomodate our most valuable player - Fabregas.

That Fabregas benefits most from high mobility/workrate strikers because he likes to look for the defense splitting pass doesn't mean we designed our game around Adebayor.
 

sesquioxide

Well-Known Member
kamikaze80 said:
who doesnt benefit from high mobility strikers? hardly a style geared towards fabregas specifically.

When we finally put our training hours to crossing and Clichy and Eboue and and Diaby finally manages to deliver the ball in the box at the right angle for once, maybe it would be helpful to have a striker who stays in the box waiting for balls. :twisted:

(To be more serious, I think Eduardo, and to a lesser extent Bendtner, would most benefit if we figure out how to cross.)
 

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