Would the Carling Cup have made a difference?

[redwhiteAustrian]

At least we would have won a trophy and gotten that monkey off our backs.


Tensions and emotions wouldn't be running as high if we had won the Carling Cup and we all would probably be looking forward to next season and hoping the boys would push on to further glories.

I still think they would, if we had the same collapse regardless of the CC Final.
In fact it would be even more shocking, because that'd mean not even a trophy could give us the last punch we're looking for years now.

All just guessing though....

 

[Jury]

Don't think it would have made a difference really.

No reason to think we would have broke Sunderland, Liverpool or Blackburn down because we won a cup weeks beforehand. Likewise with our defending against Liverpool, Sp**s.

It makes no sense at all to have the opinion that the team is mentally weak, and then say winning a trophy would have made no difference to overall performance, beit in defence or attack in our remaining games.

It really doesn't make any sense IMO.

 

[fabo]

It does when you don't believe mental weakness is the major issue with this squad.

I highly doubt winning the Carling Cup would mean the side create more clear cut chances vs Blackburn or Liverpool. Maybe Szczesny would still be riding the wave and come out a second faster vs Sp**s.

 

[arsmile]

i used to think if wenger took the cups seriously, and we won one and kept our momentum later in the season then we'd put up more of a fight in the comps that really really really matter.

but Arsène did play full strength teams in the cups....they crumbled in the cc final, and still havent recovered- going on to lose to manunited reserves, go out the cl albeit against top opposition; and continually throw away opportunities in the league.

so for once i cant blame wenger for our annual capitulation for not taking the cups seriously- i guess i have to blame the players on the pitch v birmingham for not taking the game seriously...

and it is a dangerous cycle as well- the same mentality that saw us perform so poorly in the final as a team is what also let that set-back affect us in the following games.



but even with that considered, it is hard to explain the number of genuine individual mistakes that keep costing us; it must go down to mentality again- i've seen teams unable to handle pressure before- but i've never seen a team take turns at making horrendous mistakes like we do, and they are all at it...

 

[bertlb2]

It did make a difference. Wenger always speaks of belief in his interviews and on that aspect alone it made a difference, in that it is easier to believe you can win it all if you actually win something.

It also makes a difference in the faith the players have in their coach and in their teammates. For us watching the games in the stands, on TV or on a computer, we may have lost faith in the capacity of some players of delivering when it counts, but what if the players themselves don't trust some of their teammates anymore?

 

[outlaw_member]

Yes, it probably would have. Instead of a lot people saying we suck and are bottlers, they would be saying we suck, are bottlers, and the proof of this is that all we won was the MM Cup.

Well yeah, winning the CC Cup alone was never going to suffice.

 

[AnthonyG]

outie knows.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

As this is a 'speculation' thread, it seems a bit pointless to say "oh, I'm not sure."

I think it would have made a massive difference, personally. Not only would it get the "no major trophy in 6 years" brigade off the players backs, it would have given them the belief that they aren't just nearly men and that this is the start of something special.

Well it would have ended the "no trophy in 6 years" talk, but its not a major trophy so people would still be questioning that.

You win the PL, people say you haven't won the FA Cup. You win the FA Cup, people say you haven't won the CL.

A trophy is a trophy, regardless of which stick the media wants to beat this team with, and the players would have known that too.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

As this is a 'speculation' thread, it seems a bit pointless to say "oh, I'm not sure."

I think it would have made a massive difference, personally. Not only would it get the "no major trophy in 6 years" brigade off the players backs, it would have given them the belief that they aren't just nearly men and that this is the start of something special.

I think it's quite valid to point out that you can speculate as much as you wish to but ultimately all you are doing is outlining some dream scenario.

The "we win the CC and everything will magically change" story that was trotted out by pretty much everyone who works in football punditry.

It's just as plausible that we could have won the CC and still been dumped out of both CL and FA Cup and see our challenge for the PL title dwindle following a series of drawn games.

Nowhere did I say that everything will magically change, stop patronising me and putting words in my mouth.

Of course it is entirely possible for either scenario to occur, but this thread is about whether you think the CC would have made a difference - a difference to what? Well, that's up for debate, but for me I interpreted it as the team's psychology. And to that question, my answer is yes.

Any trophy>>>no trophy.

 

[AnthonyG]

Fair dos. *pats DJ on head* :wink:

 

[tactica442]

Would a Carling Cup trophy make a difference? Of course it will. We are talking about a team winning nothing for five seasons!!

Before the recent two seasons, Wenger fielded a starting team mixed of reserves and 2nd string players. The closest thing the team could touch was the final against Chelsea, where Diaby hilariously knocked Terry unconscious. After that loss, we were all proud of that team and Wenger was praised for his dedication giving young players a chance and giving leeway for the team's inexperience.

Now when the pressure of winning a trophy of whatever size, this team went into a final against Birmingham and lost in a spectacular style. Simply no excuse for this team being young or inexperienced or whatever.

Footballers are human beings. They feel ascertain of themselves from looking at behavioural feedbacks. And in professional football the best feedbacks are trophies. Now six years w/o trophies are not good feedbacks for players, or even for the manager.

And oh no the post-PSV words 'trust me I can deliver' still comes to mind.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Fair dos. *pats DJ on head* :wink:

Thanks AuntyG

 

[sammy89]

Those tits...

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

Those tits...

I concur


As for the topic, i think it would have made a real difference. Imagine the momentum we could have had beating Barca at home then winning the CC. The cup defeat hit the players in a bad way. I don't believe we would have gone on such bad run if the cup was won.
I also think the players have a huge weight on their shoulders as another season passes without a trophy. Although there are times when it looks like there is a lack of effort, i believe the players are tense and go into games forcing situations. The recent Liverpool game is a prime example. Half the passes were forced and in the melee before the equaliser the players panicked.

The CC would have made a huge difference.

 

[Le Professeur]

Would've been a pretty big monkey of our back at the very least, even if it's only a "minor" trophy. The players would've finally known what it's like to win something.

The way we lost it was probably more detrimental than the loss in itself though. We've never had the same defensive confidence ever since.

 

[Anzac]

Anyone else think that our season 'targets' have remained set too low & that they have contributed to our current malaise?

By this I mean that AW has been able to provide a level of consistancy that has allowed him to constantly tinker & sell experience/starting players whilst reaching those targets. If the targets had a timeframe that included incremental increases or more importantly some winning objectives then perhaps we'd see some different outcomes?

 

[Le Professeur]

I can't honestly believe Wenger is content with just finishing inside the top-4 and playing CL every year. One look at him at the sidelines should tell you that.

He's just too stubborn to do it in a sensible way.

 

[qs]

I don't think it'd have changed much, maybe we wouldn't have fallen apart so spectacularly but I don't think we'd have won anything. The one thing it would have done is change perception though and probably have bought Wenger a bit more fan support.

 

[Invincible]

We'll never know.

One thing it would have done though, is end the 'no trophy won in x amount of years' curse.

 

[Spork]

We will win everything.. AND MORE next season! I guarantee it.