Would we be better off playing 3-5-2?

[MDGoonah41]

this thread comes with a number of caveats, so please read it all before making a snide remark and moving on.

* changing formation mid season is risky, especially given our perilous league position. i understand that, which means i know it isn't likely, but its a discussion topic.

here are the reasons why i ask the original question:

- our 3 best defenders are all centerbacks.
- the third best of that bunch is the captain of the team, which means he has to play every match if he is fit
- our fullbacks offer absolutely nothing going forward, and for large chunks of games/the season, have been defensive liabilities.
- most teams that set up against us do so with 1 striker, at most 1 striker and a support striker/playmaker behind. the only exception here will be the two manchester clubs.
- our lack of width now is a big problem, and having two fullbacks with non-existent attacking instinct really hampers our attack

to expand a bit, my thought is that mertesacker would play as the central of the 3 centerbacks and would sit deep, almost acting as a sweeper. kos and vermaelen's top trait is their athletic ability and ability to quickly cover. they would be responsible for attacks coming from wide areas, leaving mertesacker to deal with the central striker/attacker the other team uses.

if we play with 2 deep midfielders, 3 advanced midfielders and 2 strikers, we would still lack the width that a fullback or wide forward offers, but it would play to the strengths of our forwards, especially podolski who offers no width at all.

i envision it looking like this, given our current personnel


--- kos ------- mertesacker -------- tv ---

--------- arteta --------- wilshere -------

--- ox ---------- cazorla ----- rosicky ---

---------- walcott --- podolski -----------


ideally, we would sign someone like m'vila, push wilshere up to the bank of 3 and send rosicky or ox to the bench. even more ideally, we'd send the other to the bench as well and put a guy like turan alongside wilshere and cazorla

against teams like southampton today, was there a need to play a flat back 4? the kos/tv partnership doesn't work, mertesacker has to play. but kos/vermaelen can be useful, just not together, and probably not just pairing mertesacker alone. if we had a fullback like baines, this wouldn't be a discussion, because he is a threat going forward. gibbs is almost no threat at all, sagna is no threat at all. and unfortunately, neither is a lockdown defender anymore (gibbs never was) so are they really helping?

im sure the consensus will be that this would never work and its stupid, but im tired of talking about how ****ty gervinho is and whether or not walcott will sign a new deal, so whatever

:bounce

 

[say yes]

Damn your first line

Two comments I'd make:

- Our best three defenders aren't CBs (Bacary Sagna).
- We'd get slaughted down the wings with that formation, particularly in the pl.

 

[leo_ense]

They way you've set out the 352 won't work, you need fullbacks in the wingback position. Given our current personnel it would look something like this:


______________Szczesny______________
___Koscielny__Mertesacker__Vermaelen___
_Sagna__________Arteta___________Gibbs_
__________Cazorla_____Wilshere_________
__________Walcott_____Podolski_________

I think it suit our squad and our players (particularly those in midfield and attack) better. Ideally we'd upgrade in the RB position to someone able to contribute more in attack and get up and down the wings, and the holding mid position for someone with more strength and suited to playing the role. It's interesting we've seen the formation used to close out games this season (West Ham, Wigan) and there were stories saying that we are testing it but I doubt we will ever see it used properly.

 

[Hunta]

Too much risk involved, Wenger hasn't even mastered 433 yet and he's been using it for years. Although it looks good on paper, you just know, by watching us, we'd end up having Mertesacker (or the deepest CB) up against 2 attackers every other attack.

You need clever, able footballers/defenders to play that system, something we've not got.

 

[Jury]

Too drastic of the change for midseason
Raped on the wings
I'd say no. Defence is shaky as it is now.
Just put Mertesacker and Koscienly together and give Vermaelen a go as CDM. Better yet, get a proper CM that can defend and is physical.
I'd like 4-4-2 a go though

Lovely poem, jinjin. 'Raped on the wings' adds a certain darkness to it. Nice. :mrgreen:

 

[Pies]

Still hungover mate?

 

[jinjin5000]

Too drastic of the change for midseason
Raped on the wings
I'd say no. Defence is shaky as it is now.
Just put Mertesacker and Koscienly together and give Vermaelen a go as CDM. Better yet, get a proper CM that can defend and is physical.
I'd like 4-4-2 a go though

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

This 3-5-2 formation its working prefect in Serie A but don't think in PL.

Napoli and Juve use it. but when use it you need to have powerful strong defender and a very good wing back. look at juve they have one of the best defenders in the europe and they have very good wing back.

 

[Azeem Khaja]

I am all for changing and experimenting regardless of which phase of season we are in! It's better than persisting with same formation that is blowing hot and cold for some unbeknown reason. If it works magic, then it's all good to keep and have 4-3-3 as secondary.

Perhaps a weak squad is on AW's mind that is holding him back to be a bit more daring and adventurous with chopping and changing the formation.

I don't like the idea of Ox over Giroud, and if Arsène goes with Ox - Theo - Pod up front, could someone explain why our clever GK is kicking the ball long and high knowing we have two weak and short-ish players to fight for it?

 

[MDGoonah41]

yea normally you need 2 wing backs, but our fullbacks are awful, so i was trying to get them off the pitch all together.

it obviously would leave us open to teams piling forward in attack, but we'd still have two deep midfielders capable of covering, and kos/tv would be responsible for snuffing out attacks coming from the wing.

against an isolated central striker, which is what most teams try against us, i don't see us getting torn apart.

then again, im just too disenchanted with our current squad right now, id settle for any kind of change, even though i know its not going to happen

 

[Mudi]

Why do you want to change a formation if you lack quality???

We can simply solve our problems by buying quality players: A DM, a winger and a striker and most of our problems are solved!!!

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

Wouldn't work at all with the zero width. If you're fullbacks are a weakness, you're better playing real wingers alongside them instead of strikers as wide forwards, at the moment we're essentially playing a 4-3-3

 

[mo50]

Our aversion to using the 4-4-2 is what really concerns me. Our fullbacks don't have the characteristics to carry out the formation in the OP.

 

[Vela]

I wouldn't be against seeing it. It's a different plan and option to have. Do we have the players to fit the formation though? AW played it for the last 10 minutes against West Ham earlier this season.

 

[eye4goal]

Agree on changing the formation. We've tried afew tweaks in terms of changing players around, but we still can't create chances. I'd go 4-3-1-2 with Rosicky coming into midfield and Cazorla playing behind the strikers.

 

[Dokaka]

You'd be one injury away from seeing Squillaci/Miquel in the starting lineup if Djourou leaves, unless you want to throw Jenks or Sagna in there.

Wouldn't work currently. Wenger has spend the last 5-7 years with a 4-2-3-1 tunnel vision. The players are brought in to play exactly that system.

As someone else said, you need versatile wings to make a formation like that work. Gibbs COULD be that player if his end product improves, but Sagna is definetly not the type and neither is Walcott, AOC (although he could be I think, but not now) or Gervinho.

Your current midfield is also way to static for it. Arteta needs to get swapped with a more mobile, physical player that can cover ground quicker to provide cover for the lack of fullbacks.

 

[GOONER1991]

I'd say no, simply because moving Sagna and Gibbs further up the pitch will not improve their end product. They'll both still get into good positions and fail to deliver the killer blow.

 

[DiamondGooner]

1. I hate that formation.

2. We won handsomely the other day it's just today we didn't show up, formations won't help that because it's the players attitudes/ capabilities.

3. Probably most important, Wenger isn't going to change anything so why bother discussing it?

 

[mavelous]

*snide remark*

 

[Cudareli]

The problem with adopting a 3-5-2 is that once you decide to switch to it, you need to change the balance of the squad to make it effective. Rather then needing 4 quality centre backs in the side, you now need 5 or 6 and this is often at the expense of fullbacks.

Once you make the decision to play this way, going back on it is often very difficult. With a switch between a 4-5-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2, the core and base of the side is very similar, it's only in midfield and attack that you are tinkering. This means you can interchange between the 3 (something we should be doing) quiet regularly and sign players that can play and adapt to all 3 systems with ease. Once you start making signings for a 3-5-2 though and changing the base of the side, going back to a more traditional formation requires a transition time and it's not something that I believe is worth the risk. In addition, for the formation to be successful you need quality wingbacks (which we don't have), players like Alves and Marcelo, who can not only defend like a fullback, but also provide the attacking threat of a top class winger.

If we require any formation change, it's from our current system to a 4-4-2.