Country: England
Remember the Koscielny and Mustafi partnership? Absolute joke.
That goal pretty much sums it up with Koscielny kicking the ball into his own face and Mustafi slipping.
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Would we have dropped off so much with Wenger?
- Thread starter razörist
- Start date
- Replies 131
- Views 8,855
Country: England
Remember the Koscielny and Mustafi partnership? Absolute joke.
That goal pretty much sums it up with Koscielny kicking the ball into his own face and Mustafi slipping.
GDeep™
League is very weak
We were the better team vs Atletico too.
novar
Well-Known Member
Imagine thinking Mertesacker was the one babysittingMertesacker was Xhaka before Xhaka
I was going to say that there'd probably be some ready to say that Koscielny was the one making Mertesacker look good and then you best me and give that standpoint.
Mertesacker was Xhaka before Xhaka
I'd say that neither where perfect, but had a really good partnership because they were so diverse. Two Mertesackers is one too many. Two Koscielnys is one too many as well. (A big reason why I think Mustafi and Kosc were having issues as I see them as the same defender type largely.)
Only Wenger could have squandered a 1-0 lead against 10-men in a European competition. One of the worst managers in European competitions.
That doesn't take away from his early league title wins and FA cup wins. But in Europe, he was shocking.
In his 18 year career with Arsenal, he went to a European final only once, and lost. Even when he literally had his best team, the invincibles, they lost to Chelsea in the quarter finals of the CL. Just to put things into context, Emery went to the Europa League final in his first season with us.
Wenger was never going to get us a European trophy if he continued being Arsenal manager for 100 years.
Riou
In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over
Country: Northern Ireland
Player:Gabriel
Big Wengz got to 2 European finals...Champions League in 2006 and UEFA Cup in 2000, and I have no idea how we lost both games.
Don't know how we didn't win in Europe in the 1996-2006 period, considering the players/manager we had...can't all be put at Arsène though, that's unfair.
Don't know how we didn't win in Europe in the 1996-2006 period, considering the players/manager we had...can't all be put at Arsène though, that's unfair.
CaseUteinberger
Established Member
Country: Sweden
One thing that cannot be ignored was that we were on the decline under Wenger already and many of the problems we have been suffering under had already started under him. At the end I felt the game had run him by in many ways.
Another fact is that the PL now in 2020 has much better coaching than just 5 years ago. Pep (2016) and Klopp (2015) entered the league, Pochettino just had come to Sp**s (2014). Now Hasenhuetll, Bielsa, Graham Potter, Chris Wilder, Rogers are in the league.
Overall the league as it is now is much more even than in years past. Under Wenger we were flat track bullies and really could beat up the lower half of the table. That just isn't in there anymore to the same extent.
All, in all I think we would have about the same problems or be even worse than we have been since he left. We have picked up another FA cup under Arteta and made the EL final under Emery. Not sure that would have been in it under Wenger.
Think it is simply time we face up to facts. We are a fairy poorly run club and at best we are the 7-8th best club or more likely mid-table right now.
I am hopeful we will rebuild, but rebuild we must. And that means offloading the rubbish we have onboard in form of overpaid and underperforming players. Longing for Wenger or days gone will not bring us anywhere.
Onwards and upwards!
Another fact is that the PL now in 2020 has much better coaching than just 5 years ago. Pep (2016) and Klopp (2015) entered the league, Pochettino just had come to Sp**s (2014). Now Hasenhuetll, Bielsa, Graham Potter, Chris Wilder, Rogers are in the league.
Overall the league as it is now is much more even than in years past. Under Wenger we were flat track bullies and really could beat up the lower half of the table. That just isn't in there anymore to the same extent.
All, in all I think we would have about the same problems or be even worse than we have been since he left. We have picked up another FA cup under Arteta and made the EL final under Emery. Not sure that would have been in it under Wenger.
Think it is simply time we face up to facts. We are a fairy poorly run club and at best we are the 7-8th best club or more likely mid-table right now.
I am hopeful we will rebuild, but rebuild we must. And that means offloading the rubbish we have onboard in form of overpaid and underperforming players. Longing for Wenger or days gone will not bring us anywhere.
Onwards and upwards!
Riou
In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over
Country: Northern Ireland
Player:Gabriel
It's not his fault as much as I hate him, as this is all on Kos really...but of course Mustafi would slip when there is even a 1% chance of him saving us
Zaza
Active Member
Whatever Wenger lacked in tactical nous, one thing is for certain - he's much better in building teams and eye for talent.
I don't think we'd have gotten to the stage of lacking so much creativity in the side.
Never forget Wenger didn't want Lacazette, Perez and even Xhaka. Its obvious to anyone that he no longer had the final word on transfers during his final season.
Personally I feel we were so unlucky in the first half of the 17/18 season. Id say the Liverpool game was the only game we got properly spanked. We were not getting any luck away from home.
I don't think we'd have gotten to the stage of lacking so much creativity in the side.
Never forget Wenger didn't want Lacazette, Perez and even Xhaka. Its obvious to anyone that he no longer had the final word on transfers during his final season.
Personally I feel we were so unlucky in the first half of the 17/18 season. Id say the Liverpool game was the only game we got properly spanked. We were not getting any luck away from home.
Zaza
Active Member
Lacazette cost is this tie. I feel we would've qualified if Aubamayeng or even Giroud played both legs instead of Laca.
shoot for the top
Active Member
With Wenger, we would probably be still challenging for 6th at the very least. We will score more than we concede. Wenger was known to know how to bring out the best in attacking players.
Country: Canada
Definitely not. Probably pretty much in the same situation as when he left, you'd hope a bit better if he would be able to bring in players to improve his 2018 team. But the same debates would still be going on about him.
EmeryCouldnt
Established Member
Wenger finished 6th once and everyone panicked about a decline. The truth is that we would fluctuate around 4th and more likely than not, achieved champions league football faster with Wenger.
No doubt we’d do better with Wenger. But we had to transition eventually... the question is, could we have better prepared for the transition?
No doubt we’d do better with Wenger. But we had to transition eventually... the question is, could we have better prepared for the transition?
novar
Well-Known Member
We weren't on decline under Wenger, he was considering to leave in that FA cup year and we were too incompetent to have a decent plan ready. He extends with no payrise, and the burnout from a guy that took the wrong decision to keep working shows with a 5th and 6th place finish and a harsh EL semifinal.
He knows from the way things go last season the ride is over, fans had enough and the squad starts feeling the burden too. He knows there is still no proper plan for life after him but at the same time he can't remain at the club, it's a lose lose situation. Announces his retirement before a key game on purpose. It was just a gamble to propel one last spark of motivation and put Arsenal in the CL were finances can be healthy, but sadly it doesn't work.
He leaves, fans remember the good times with him a bit before foolishly believing once again he was the problem once the nostalgia period passes. The best and only thing he can do is not getting anywhere near the club, allow the fans to embrace the new era, hope for the best with those frauds at the helm. He releases a book about his career, it's ****ing boring, full of respect and class.
The man didn't think twice to give up his reputation for the sake of the club, and it's downright offensive seeing how the fans behave toward a man that has the club in the 15th position considering how they turned their backs on Wenger. In a way it was expected, during that Wenger out planes era some were saying for a while we would come to regret our poor judgement and get to reap the rotten fruit of our bad decisions, they were absolutely right.
He knows from the way things go last season the ride is over, fans had enough and the squad starts feeling the burden too. He knows there is still no proper plan for life after him but at the same time he can't remain at the club, it's a lose lose situation. Announces his retirement before a key game on purpose. It was just a gamble to propel one last spark of motivation and put Arsenal in the CL were finances can be healthy, but sadly it doesn't work.
He leaves, fans remember the good times with him a bit before foolishly believing once again he was the problem once the nostalgia period passes. The best and only thing he can do is not getting anywhere near the club, allow the fans to embrace the new era, hope for the best with those frauds at the helm. He releases a book about his career, it's ****ing boring, full of respect and class.
The man didn't think twice to give up his reputation for the sake of the club, and it's downright offensive seeing how the fans behave toward a man that has the club in the 15th position considering how they turned their backs on Wenger. In a way it was expected, during that Wenger out planes era some were saying for a while we would come to regret our poor judgement and get to reap the rotten fruit of our bad decisions, they were absolutely right.
truth_hurts
but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Under Wenger's guidance, we sold RVP to United and a couple of years later opted for Xhaka over Kante and turned down Cesc to allow him to help Chelsea win the league. Our cm options could have been Cesc, Santi, Kante, Ramsey and Wilshere with Özil and Sanchez in front.
Wenger wouldn't have had us in 15th, but God it would have been painful if he stayed.
Wenger wouldn't have had us in 15th, but God it would have been painful if he stayed.
Country: England
You say this but Wenger’s the same guy who signed Mustafi, Elneny, Kola & Xhaka etc, so no point bringing transfers into it. That being said we wouldn’t fall off as much but we weren’t going to progress and that’s when you have to make a change.
Kobi
I Know Who You Are
Probably yes, I'm grateful for for all he did but this mess started under him and was only getting worse.
He won one away game in six months, a lucky win on the last day against already relegated, not to mention completely hopeless, Huddersfield Town.
We were sterile, creating nothing, just passing the ball about infront of teams, Mustafi, Xhaka, Lacazette, Elneny etc were all bought under him and would all still be starting along with Bellerin, the only big difference would be Özil would be starting games, on the occasions he actually wanted to play.
Oh and less crosses, obviously.
He won one away game in six months, a lucky win on the last day against already relegated, not to mention completely hopeless, Huddersfield Town.
We were sterile, creating nothing, just passing the ball about infront of teams, Mustafi, Xhaka, Lacazette, Elneny etc were all bought under him and would all still be starting along with Bellerin, the only big difference would be Özil would be starting games, on the occasions he actually wanted to play.
Oh and less crosses, obviously.
BigPoppaPump
Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
Proper dumb and dumber stuff back there man, Koscielny was one player I never understood why people rated. He's basically a French Mustafi, he was a liability. That's why we had so many drubbings with him in the back four, not to mention all the penalties and red cards. He was a bum only Arsenal fans rated him.
BigPoppaPump
Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
Mertesacker was Xhaka before Xhaka
I was going to say that there'd probably be some ready to say that Koscielny was the one making Mertesacker look good and then you best me and give that standpoint.
I'd say that neither where perfect, but had a really good partnership because they were so diverse. Two Mertesackers is one too many. Two Koscielnys is one too many as well. (A big reason why I think Mustafi and Kosc were having issues as I see them as the same defender type largely.)
And Koscielny was Mustafi before Mustafi.
One is a World Champion the other cost his team the Euros in the final and they finally won the World Cup when he got injured then he said he wished they never won it
Just the mentality is different, Mertesacker shouting at Özil to say bye to the fans vs Koscielny crying in front of the squad when he was meant to motivate them because his son asked why he was so sh*t.
GDeep™
League is very weak
Why do people keep saying the league is better now? It clearly isn’t. The weakest City, the weakest Chelsea, the weakest Utd. NO team can defend etc.
We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.
We would be a top 4 team had we hired and invested in players correctly.
