Masuperlami
Member
El_Strict@SpursCommunity said:
Goal difference of 15 is not actually very immense in my opinion. Conceding 35 goals out of 35 games.
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Wrighty angry with Gunners
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Goal difference of 15 is not actually very immense in my opinion. Conceding 35 goals out of 35 games.
qs
Established Member
Why would we want Carrick? HE's extremely average, easily one of the most overrated players in English football. He's not better than Gilbero so what'd be the point. Just to have English players? thats exactly the problem here. People overhype and then overpay for English players who arent as good as the hype around them. SWP is just another example of that, trouble is he believes his own hype and thought he'd get his game ahead of Duff and Cole.
Quality English players are way out of our budget. We'll never buy a Rooney, jesus Rio was 30million and he's rubbish.
The fact of the matter is Carrick, Jenas, Defoe wouldnt get into our first team.
King is the only really good English player at Sp**s.
And their best players not English either.
Quality English players are way out of our budget. We'll never buy a Rooney, jesus Rio was 30million and he's rubbish.
The fact of the matter is Carrick, Jenas, Defoe wouldnt get into our first team.
King is the only really good English player at Sp**s.
And their best players not English either.
El_Strict@SpursCommunity
Member
Arsenal_FAN I agree with what you have said.
No I do not think that you should have played English players, every team has a right to play their strongest XI, to suggest they do otherwise is ridiculous.
I fail to see how bringing on Theo Walcott tomorrow would "shut me up," I think you overestimate how much importance I put on fielding an English team.
How many of the best Premiership stars have been English? Only a handful really, and the Zola's and Klinnsmanns have arguably been more entertaining to watch than the Alan Shearers and Andy Coles.
I am a fan of football, and am personally of the opinion that the influx of foreign stars into the Premiership has helped our national game. Look at our abundance of world class centre backs - learning their trade against players like Asprilla has certainly made them more dynamic. I doubt we would have a player like Rooney (playing like a brazillian number 9 rather than a typical English one) if it weren't for these imports.
But the fact remains that you have set a precedent in being the first English club to field an all forgeign side in Europe. Perhaps your hand was forced a bit with Cole being injured, but it does seem as though he may leave the club in the summer, and Campbells career is also winding down.
All that exists is opinion. You obviously think that this is not a problem. While I do not believe the opposite, I would certainly say that this is an undesireable circumstance - and one that could have quite easily been avoided.
My problem is that it doesn't just seem as though you have bought the players who will fit you best, and that they just happen to all be foreign. It is Wengers apparent reluctance to sign English players.
You have cited Pennant and Jeffers as a reason for this reluctance, but I think that Carrick is a good example. He himself has said that he thought he was joining Arsenal. He cost less than £3 million - not a typically inflated price for an English player. It is very likely that he would have featured a lot for Arsenal this season, and would have been on the bench at the very least!
This always seemed like a very odd decision to me, and one that didn't seem rooted in footballing reasons. You are right in saying that if you made him an offer then he might like to accept it, but I think that it is a near impossible situation that our board would accept an offer for him from anyone, let alone our fiercest rivals.
It is interesting that you mentioned Joey Barton, in one of my first posts here I said that he would be the perfect signing for you.
No I do not think that you should have played English players, every team has a right to play their strongest XI, to suggest they do otherwise is ridiculous.
I fail to see how bringing on Theo Walcott tomorrow would "shut me up," I think you overestimate how much importance I put on fielding an English team.
How many of the best Premiership stars have been English? Only a handful really, and the Zola's and Klinnsmanns have arguably been more entertaining to watch than the Alan Shearers and Andy Coles.
I am a fan of football, and am personally of the opinion that the influx of foreign stars into the Premiership has helped our national game. Look at our abundance of world class centre backs - learning their trade against players like Asprilla has certainly made them more dynamic. I doubt we would have a player like Rooney (playing like a brazillian number 9 rather than a typical English one) if it weren't for these imports.
But the fact remains that you have set a precedent in being the first English club to field an all forgeign side in Europe. Perhaps your hand was forced a bit with Cole being injured, but it does seem as though he may leave the club in the summer, and Campbells career is also winding down.
All that exists is opinion. You obviously think that this is not a problem. While I do not believe the opposite, I would certainly say that this is an undesireable circumstance - and one that could have quite easily been avoided.
My problem is that it doesn't just seem as though you have bought the players who will fit you best, and that they just happen to all be foreign. It is Wengers apparent reluctance to sign English players.
You have cited Pennant and Jeffers as a reason for this reluctance, but I think that Carrick is a good example. He himself has said that he thought he was joining Arsenal. He cost less than £3 million - not a typically inflated price for an English player. It is very likely that he would have featured a lot for Arsenal this season, and would have been on the bench at the very least!
This always seemed like a very odd decision to me, and one that didn't seem rooted in footballing reasons. You are right in saying that if you made him an offer then he might like to accept it, but I think that it is a near impossible situation that our board would accept an offer for him from anyone, let alone our fiercest rivals.
It is interesting that you mentioned Joey Barton, in one of my first posts here I said that he would be the perfect signing for you.
The whole english players thing is nothing but a sour grapes moan for those who wanna hate on arsenal & althou I personally would love the england team to be made up of arsenal players as a manager Arsène plays and buys the best players he can based on ability & affordability & im all for that!
Althou i must admit Sp**s do have some of the best young english players in defore, carrick, robinson & king i'd still rather have van persie, cesc, toure, emboué & co.
Althou i must admit Sp**s do have some of the best young english players in defore, carrick, robinson & king i'd still rather have van persie, cesc, toure, emboué & co.
Darius
Active Member
Maxx or Maximus is pure s**t. we'll screw your side up this weekend 100000000000 times!
El_Strict@SpursCommunity, I should admit, you have some points. But we would be able to afford any overhyped English players after we move into Emirates.
El_Strict@SpursCommunity, I should admit, you have some points. But we would be able to afford any overhyped English players after we move into Emirates.
Captain
Established Member
Carrick was coming to replace Vieira; Vieira ended up staying so the Carrick deal was dropped.
There are numerous other examples of why we haven't signed an english alternative but there's no need to go into them all.
There are numerous other examples of why we haven't signed an english alternative but there's no need to go into them all.
1970*Gooner
Established Member
Country: Wales
Player:Rice
How can you say that about Maxxie baby the little spud supporter, he can't help it can you Maxx.rednwhitearmy said:
qs
Established Member
El_Strict@SpursCommunity, would you rather have Englishmen or success?
We arent Chelsea or United or even Liverpool. We dont have the money to buy English.
Oh and we got Walcott. Ahead of ye aswell.
We arent Chelsea or United or even Liverpool. We dont have the money to buy English.
Oh and we got Walcott. Ahead of ye aswell.
1970*Gooner
Established Member
Country: Wales
Player:Rice
They got the Englishmen but they haven't even got a sniff of success.qs said:
mood
Well-Known Member
There's only one reason we dont have many Englishmen. Their toooo bloody expensive and the cheap ones are ****e.
Look at the amount we spent for 16 yr old Walcott from SOUTHAMPTON too.
I mean, BEATIE cost Everton like 7m pounds.. and we got van Persie for half that amount.
Look at the amount we spent for 16 yr old Walcott from SOUTHAMPTON too.
I mean, BEATIE cost Everton like 7m pounds.. and we got van Persie for half that amount.
jgunner84
Active Member
Wow what's with the ultra nice Sp**s fans here? I expected some fierce animosity.
jgunner84
Active Member
Of course I do agree with your points El strict. But in my opinion it is not about reluctance but bad luck on Wenger's part.
You look at the circumstances of many transfer dealings. Most of the time the price is too high. Again the fact that Wenger has been able to provide better foreign youth than English players maybe attributed to bad luck. Maybe Wenger and English players just don't work out(of course Ash and Gilbert are exceptions). Like Lendl never won Wimbledon,Cryuff didn't win world cup and so on.
I know it seems an easy answer but I don't think it is about bias.
You look at the circumstances of many transfer dealings. Most of the time the price is too high. Again the fact that Wenger has been able to provide better foreign youth than English players maybe attributed to bad luck. Maybe Wenger and English players just don't work out(of course Ash and Gilbert are exceptions). Like Lendl never won Wimbledon,Cryuff didn't win world cup and so on.
I know it seems an easy answer but I don't think it is about bias.
Etoue
Member
As far as I'm concerned, Arsenal represent the Premiership, not England. What I mean by this is that the Premiership has embraced foreign players, and so have we. Just a bit more than others, but thats 'cause they're cheap and we're relatively poor(at the moment) and thanks to Arsène, they're doing the business. If we concentrated on our English talent, we'd be no better than the worst teams in the Championship.
Arsenal_FAN1983
Well-Known Member
Masuperlami said:
He is deluded like the rest of them are. :roll:
KingReyes
Established Member
El_Strict@SpursCommunity, that was a good post, long but good.
Anyways just a few things, Carrick was close to joining even Wenger said that. The problem was that Vieira eventually stayed and there was already Edu and Gilberto so central midfield ended up being a position not needed of strenghtening especially with the emergence of Cesc.
The other problem has been prices, Wenger would have loved to sign Rooney and SWP and I think Sp**s would have loved to as well. The problem is that we were priced out.
Finally I think what the yids are doing is good, they aren't doing it for English football they are doing it for the club first and foremost. Clubs like Newcastle, M'Boro etc have spent vast amounts and don't look like fullfilling potential.
Which brings me to what i wanted to say, Tottenham have potential and the only way they are going to prove that going with many English players is by winning trophies. If they fail to win honours then it would mean nothing, just like Arsenal's future stars. We've got a promising future but it will only be a success if we win honours.
Anyways just a few things, Carrick was close to joining even Wenger said that. The problem was that Vieira eventually stayed and there was already Edu and Gilberto so central midfield ended up being a position not needed of strenghtening especially with the emergence of Cesc.
The other problem has been prices, Wenger would have loved to sign Rooney and SWP and I think Sp**s would have loved to as well. The problem is that we were priced out.
Finally I think what the yids are doing is good, they aren't doing it for English football they are doing it for the club first and foremost. Clubs like Newcastle, M'Boro etc have spent vast amounts and don't look like fullfilling potential.
Which brings me to what i wanted to say, Tottenham have potential and the only way they are going to prove that going with many English players is by winning trophies. If they fail to win honours then it would mean nothing, just like Arsenal's future stars. We've got a promising future but it will only be a success if we win honours.
sabret00the
Established Member
on the radio last night, someone brought this up and when the question was turned on their heads they were unsure as to what their feelings would be.
as for me. i'm all for not putting out Englishman when there's none available and of course i want the best players 'period' for the club independant of nationality, but i also feel we have a duty to attempt to cultivate and grow thus players, not to menion to and aquire them when they suit our needs.
That said, at the moment, there's only two English players i'd like to see at this club; Lennon and Carrick and outside of them, this whole debates bores little water.
However that said Gilbert has a couple reserve games under his belt and was a wonderous additon to our team when we were without options, he should've been rested for Ash's game and played against the spuds, without the ability to offer anything going forward down the right hand side, we invited more pressure (spread evening in width across the park) than we could deal with. There was no excuse not to play him.
All season, i've held tight in my expectations that this is a transition year and that we'll have Hoyte, Gilbert, Cole, Smith, Walcott all getting games however sparcely, if i don't see that come to fruition, i'll be devestated, but the bottom line is, you support a team unconditionally, so chances are i'll moan more, but it's still my team.
Letting Bentley, Pennant, Jeffers and everyone else up until this point has been the right thing to do, but now we have some we can hold on to, i hope we're not to eager to let them go.
as for me. i'm all for not putting out Englishman when there's none available and of course i want the best players 'period' for the club independant of nationality, but i also feel we have a duty to attempt to cultivate and grow thus players, not to menion to and aquire them when they suit our needs.
That said, at the moment, there's only two English players i'd like to see at this club; Lennon and Carrick and outside of them, this whole debates bores little water.
However that said Gilbert has a couple reserve games under his belt and was a wonderous additon to our team when we were without options, he should've been rested for Ash's game and played against the spuds, without the ability to offer anything going forward down the right hand side, we invited more pressure (spread evening in width across the park) than we could deal with. There was no excuse not to play him.
All season, i've held tight in my expectations that this is a transition year and that we'll have Hoyte, Gilbert, Cole, Smith, Walcott all getting games however sparcely, if i don't see that come to fruition, i'll be devestated, but the bottom line is, you support a team unconditionally, so chances are i'll moan more, but it's still my team.
Letting Bentley, Pennant, Jeffers and everyone else up until this point has been the right thing to do, but now we have some we can hold on to, i hope we're not to eager to let them go.
jester
Established Member
i agree with sabret00th.
when there's a player available that suits our play, is good enough, and is value for money - wenger will buy him.
we didnt get carrick because of cesc, and although carrick is a good player, cesc is something else.
we are always looking at young talent, its not as if wenger rules out the purchase of english players, as we've been linked pretty strongly with davis (who i feel we should get).
but who knows? maybe all our english players will have an awesome pre-season, get fitter stronger and better, and our line up for our first match may be
------lehman
gilbert-davis-kolo-cole
smith-hleb-gilberto-cesc-walcott
----------henry
thats 5 players there, and not too far fetched, except maybe gilbert as eboue has played awesome, and smith is unproven at the top level.
it'll also mean bench time for hoyte, maybe garry, etc.
if they do well they will play. if the foreign players do well they will play. gilbert was looking to make he right side his untill his injury.
when there's a player available that suits our play, is good enough, and is value for money - wenger will buy him.
we didnt get carrick because of cesc, and although carrick is a good player, cesc is something else.
we are always looking at young talent, its not as if wenger rules out the purchase of english players, as we've been linked pretty strongly with davis (who i feel we should get).
but who knows? maybe all our english players will have an awesome pre-season, get fitter stronger and better, and our line up for our first match may be
------lehman
gilbert-davis-kolo-cole
smith-hleb-gilberto-cesc-walcott
----------henry
thats 5 players there, and not too far fetched, except maybe gilbert as eboue has played awesome, and smith is unproven at the top level.
it'll also mean bench time for hoyte, maybe garry, etc.
if they do well they will play. if the foreign players do well they will play. gilbert was looking to make he right side his untill his injury.
Mr Wolf
Well-Known Member
It's sad to say that some posts of this topic give offence to Ian. I think that Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend: he can say what he wants and yet he deserves respect and gratefulness!
1970*Gooner
Established Member
Country: Wales
Player:Rice
He might be an Arsenal Legend but he is still a mouthy ****.Mr Wolf said:
YuenBiaoFan
Established Member
FFS Wrighty: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002 ... 15,00.html
**** off and worry about Chelsea and your own son.
**** off and worry about Chelsea and your own son.
