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Yaya Sanogo joins Arsenal

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GunnerBP

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
@jones

I think we've covered most of the bases on this issue.

That particular section you highlighted wasn't directly in response to what you said, but addresses this specific issue as a whole. If someone doesn't feel like part of a country, but represents that country many people -- not necessarily you in particular -- have questioned their motivations and effort. That's really all it is.

Right now I'm just glad that it looks like Wenger has made another shrewd move in the transfer market. This kid looks to have a lot of potential.
 

yuvken

Established Member
@ Jones - don't actually disagree with you (I think) - we were a bit missing each other.
 

jerome2158

Established Member
and1rew said:
If I was a black French player not sure I'd feel French at all. When the heads of football are actively trying to bring in legislation to limit the number of players who look like you "to prioritize intelligence", I think you can be excused for feeling a bit disillusioned. It is not these young people who are rejecting France, France is rejecting them.

if you were born to French parents in France and don't feel French, what exactly would you feel?


If you're referring to the incident last year, you have it wrong. They weren't trying to limit players based on skin color or heritage. They were try to limit the number of players who would grow up in France and take advantage of the training, then as soon as they turned 18, go play for someone else.

Would you like it if a bunch of Arsenal youth players used our club from the time they were children, only to join a different club as soon as they turned 18 and went pro?

The FFF is simply trying to train players who will play for them. They are not in the business of training the next generation of Ivory Coast or Senegal internationals.
 

and1rew

Active Member
jerome2158 said:
if you were born to French parents in France and don't feel French, what exactly would you feel?

You don't have to feel anything but if the likes of Assou-Ekoto and Bassong are to be believed, they identify with the original countries of their parents.

"...I thought that they must be ashamed of their origins because coming from where I did in France, even if you had only one little drop of Moroccan blood, for example, you would represent it to the death. You would be fiercely proud of being African."


jerome2158 said:
If you're referring to the incident last year, you have it wrong. They weren't trying to limit players based on skin color or heritage. They were try to limit the number of players who would grow up in France and take advantage of the training, then as soon as they turned 18, go play for someone else.

Would you like it if a bunch of Arsenal youth players used our club from the time they were children, only to join a different club as soon as they turned 18 and went pro?

The FFF is simply trying to train players who will play for them. They are not in the business of training the next generation of Ivory Coast or Senegal internationals.

If only that were the case. All the quotes refer to limiting the amount of non-white players to 30% not dual nationality players. So the Pires or Koscielnys of this world would not be affected whereas the Henrys and Gallas would have been. When you consider dual nationality players only make up 39% of the players at youth level it makes the notion that it's not about race seem especially laughable.

"The Spanish, they say 'we don’t have a problem. We have no blacks"

“And who are the large, strong, powerful? The blacks. That’s the way it is. It is a current fact. God knows that in the training centres and football academies, there are lots."

...the DTN has never, in its discussions on the subject, detailed the problem in terms of nationality but rather in terms of "blacks" and "beurs"

http://www.mediapart.fr/journal/fra...-football-chiefs-secret-plan-whiten-les-bleus
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
and1rew said:
If I was a black French player not sure I'd feel French at all. When the heads of football are actively trying to bring in legislation to limit the number of players who look like you "to prioritize intelligence", I think you can be excused for feeling a bit disillusioned. It is not these young people who are rejecting France, France is rejecting them.

The UK is far more tolerant than the French, and that's while having its own problems.

The latter banned headscarves for instance, essentially alienating sections of the Muslim population amongst Arab and African immigrants. France is indeed rejecting many of its citizens.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Attempt to ban Sikhs from wearing a turban in French schools was even more ridiculous I thought.

Anyway, Sanogo is exactly the sort of player iv been calling for a few years now.
 

Pies

Well-Known Member
Good luck to him! I won't be surprised if he is only attacker we end up signing this summer which is a bit disappoint.
 

a_fourteen

Established Member
and1rew said:
jerome2158 said:
if you were born to French parents in France and don't feel French, what exactly would you feel?

You don't have to feel anything but if the likes of Assou-Ekoto and Bassong are to be believed, they identify with the original countries of their parents.

"...I thought that they must be ashamed of their origins because coming from where I did in France, even if you had only one little drop of Moroccan blood, for example, you would represent it to the death. You would be fiercely proud of being African."


jerome2158 said:
If you're referring to the incident last year, you have it wrong. They weren't trying to limit players based on skin color or heritage. They were try to limit the number of players who would grow up in France and take advantage of the training, then as soon as they turned 18, go play for someone else.

Would you like it if a bunch of Arsenal youth players used our club from the time they were children, only to join a different club as soon as they turned 18 and went pro?

The FFF is simply trying to train players who will play for them. They are not in the business of training the next generation of Ivory Coast or Senegal internationals.

If only that were the case. All the quotes refer to limiting the amount of non-white players to 30% not dual nationality players. So the Pires or Koscielnys of this world would not be affected whereas the Henrys and Gallas would have been. When you consider dual nationality players only make up 39% of the players at youth level it makes the notion that it's not about race seem especially laughable.

"The Spanish, they say 'we don’t have a problem. We have no blacks"

“And who are the large, strong, powerful? The blacks. That’s the way it is. It is a current fact. God knows that in the training centres and football academies, there are lots."

...the DTN has never, in its discussions on the subject, detailed the problem in terms of nationality but rather in terms of "blacks" and "beurs"

http://www.mediapart.fr/journal/fra...-football-chiefs-secret-plan-whiten-les-bleus
The only reason France won a World Cup is because of a player rejected by Algeria.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
jones said:
DJ_Markstar said:
That said, it is ungrateful as ****. Don't like France? Don't live there.

You seriously think it's that easy? Go ahead and tell some kid raised in a banlieue living off of the **** that's thrown their way to be grateful to a nation that colonialised the countries of their origin, bombed them back into the middle ages and afterwards never gave a **** about any of them.

Nice chip on your shoulder there, mate.

We're not talking about "some kid", we're talking about Sanogo who is about to be a professional footballer on a huge salary and he owes that to the people who raised him and developed his talent, no two ways about it. This pick and choose mentality reeks of disrespect.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
outlaw_member said:
and1rew said:
If I was a black French player not sure I'd feel French at all. When the heads of football are actively trying to bring in legislation to limit the number of players who look like you "to prioritize intelligence", I think you can be excused for feeling a bit disillusioned. It is not these young people who are rejecting France, France is rejecting them.

The UK is far more tolerant than the French, and that's while having its own problems.

The latter banned headscarves for instance, essentially alienating sections of the Muslim population amongst Arab and African immigrants. France is indeed rejecting many of its citizens.

Interesting that many are calling for the French to be tolerant, when so few are tolerant of the French tradition of secularism.

I don't want to live in France, so I don't live there. It really is that simple. I'd advise anyone who doesn't like France or want to live in France to do the same.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Both sides of the story has their ground.

FFF definitely don't want to develop stars of Ivory Coast cause it has no benefit to France.
If say Drogba (example) won the World Cup, he won't shout "Viva La France!!"

On the other hand, these players live in France as their citizen.

Racism, I won't discuss that
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
DJ_Markstar said:
jones said:
DJ_Markstar said:
That said, it is ungrateful as ****. Don't like France? Don't live there.

You seriously think it's that easy? Go ahead and tell some kid raised in a banlieue living off of the **** that's thrown their way to be grateful to a nation that colonialised the countries of their origin, bombed them back into the middle ages and afterwards never gave a **** about any of them.

Nice chip on your shoulder there, mate.

We're not talking about "some kid", we're talking about Sanogo who is about to be a professional footballer on a huge salary and he owes that to the people who raised him and developed his talent, no two ways about it. This pick and choose mentality reeks of disrespect.

No chip on my shoulder mate. Maybe it's you that walks around with one, what's with the idea of telling people where they should live?

And we weren't talking Sanogo specifically, we don't know his point of view on France, the Ivory Coast etc., we were talking about your statement of telling people to leave a country because they don't like it. Do you think the type of person that feels grief and resentment towards the country they were raised in has the type of money to relocate to a different part of the world? And then, where are they supposed to go?

DJ_Markstar said:
and1rew said:

This is obviously about money. French federation don't want to develop players for other national teams. If they were limiting the amount of Brits in their academies no one would bat an eyelid.

If those players didn't **** off to play for African nations the first chance they got then this wouldn't be a problem.

No offence mate, but this is bullshit. The FFF talking about "the Spanish, they don't have blacks, they don't have any problems" and forcing Arab kids in their youth centres to leave their praying mats at home is "obviously about money"? Are you serious?

And look at the players who opt for their African origins instead of France, they are very rarely players that would have played a role for France's NT anyways. There are exceptions like Drogba, though I think he didn't even receive any call up to a French youth side.

Anyways, I don't think that France has any right to feel a sense of entitlement regarding these players. What about expats in general then? Are they all traitors if they use their skills abroad when they acquired while in their home countries?
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
You seem to like taking debates off topic, skewing them and trying to make it seem as though I've said things I haven't said.

Let's keep it on topic. No one is talking about expats.

What right do you as an individual (or anyone, in fact) have to tell a federation like the FFF who it should and shouldn't develop, especially if a certain type of player is more likely to be developed for the good of a rival nation? When Arsenal develop good/world class players and they end up at other teams people on A-M go mad, but when France try and stop it they're racists?

At least Arsenal get a transfer fee when it happens, France get to smile and nod as their investment goes down the pan. So France should just develop these players and feel happy about it?
 

Enfield

Established Member
What a disappointing page full of non-relevant nonsense. Where the hell are the mods

Has anyone been watching the French U-20s, how is our boy doing
 

kofigunner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Enfield said:
What a disappointing page full of non-relevant nonsense. Where the hell are the mods

Has anyone been watching the French U-20s, how is our boy doing
Finally another breath of fresh air! Well Sanogo's been doing well. He's got 4 goals thus far to lead the French.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...20-team-prompting-a-return-to-past-glory-days
Forward Yaya Sanogo also deserves a mention, particularly as he is a player who will become much more familiar to a wider audience in the near future.

A product of the famed Auxerre academy, Sanogo will join Abou Diaby and Bacary Sagna in making the move from the Stade de l’Abbé-Deschamps to North London as he joins Arsène Wenger’s Arsenal side.

He becomes the latest in a long line of players to swap the French league for the EPL, and has all the raw materials to make a major impact in the future.

During the tournament thus far, his technical ability has been plain to see, while his speed and physique are hard to ignore.
 

Enfield

Established Member
Technique, speed and physique. A nice place to start from. It would be nice to go back to having some of the players that everyone else feels bad about missing out on. I was hoping last year we would get Pogba, this year maybe Sanogo will be the one to shine sooner than expected.
 

SomGooner

Prolific Liker
I'd like to know who's the world class player or players that were born, bred and trained in France and then opted to play for the country of their parents? Drogba only made his debut for Ivory Coast in 2005 and before that he wasn't even in Ligue 1 never mind a world class. In fact most Africans refuse to play for their african nations until they're absolutely sure that they've got no chance of playing for the country that they were born in.
 

kofigunner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
If people feel so strongly about players not playing for their perceived country of origin or however you may put it, they should open another thread on the Football forum(board, section?). I find it irritating that this thread has turned into a philosophical debate on that topic especially since Sanogo was born in France and has apparently lived there his whole life. Let's keep this about the young lad.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
GunnerBP some excellent points - take a bow!

On the topic of Sanogo's ability he does seem like he has plenty of goals in him and is much more than just a big man. Very low risk signing and after missing out on Niang last year I am happy with Sanogo as along with Gnabry and Campbell he will either make it here or be sold for a decent fee.
 
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