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You guys are like yoyos...

Arnie

Well-Known Member
...Last week you were all defending jens, saying he has played fantastically for our club with an individual record for unbeaten league games.

Before that (guessing like 5 weeks back) it was complete hate for him from some of you saying we needed a new keeper who could somehow do better than no league defeats.

This week it's who shall we replace him with, he's average, i hate him, he's not as good as this guy!!

Well if you are going to count the mistakes, count the saves, count the crosses he catches, measure how quickly he throws the ball out and how accurately he throws the ball out. Question how he talks to his players so they are positionally right.

Last time i checked, Olisadebe got a free header, who was picking him up?? I'm not sayin it's not Lehmaans fault i'm just saying it's not all his fault.

When it comes to jens lehmaan i am unbiased, i say when he has made mistakes and say when he has done well. Some of you guys need to take the likes of Henry, Pires and Reyes off such high pedastools and start valuing the likes of lehmaan, Gilberto and Ljungberg. Even in a team like arsenal not everyone is perfect. Be consistent with your arguments, and don't take them overboard. Henry, Pires and Reyes only seemed to attack when we were in trouble, but hey who cares they are like gods to you guys!!
 

Exiled In Newcastle

Established Member
Well said mate.

Trouble is football is turning more and more into a 'highlights' game, so the flair players are lauded while the grafters are slagged off.
 

kanuuu

Established Member
I've never thought he was good enough and the general opinion here has always been the same, but people are obviously going to critisize more when he makes mistakes like he did last night. Maybe people started to praise him recently because he hasn't made any obvious misakes recently and people thought he'd learnt, but obviously not .We're not as fickle as people say, I think that most of the people who are saying that he's got to go now have been thinking that for a while now, not just because of one bad performance. When Thierry has a bad game, we ignore it because we know he's class and everyone has bad games, but Jens hasn't given us any reason to have confidence in him so everytime he cocks up, we're going to question whether he is good enough.
 

kanuuu

Established Member
Yes it's impressive, but that's mainly due to the defence, he rarely made saves that he wasnt expected to, he made more mistakes than good saves in my opinion, the theory that he has been excellent in the Premiership is rubbish, he made plenty of mistakes that didn't lead to goals and because we didn't lose a game they went unnoticed. I cant think of any games where he has actually won it for us, or even saved us from losing, apart from maybe Bolton away, his best performance that i can remember. Whereas Spunky used to win so many games for us it was unbelievable. Anyway this thread is going to be locked soon, its about the 10th one about lehmann.
 

tox

Active Member
Lehaman is a good keeper, no doubt about it. The question is, is he good enough for arsenal, personally i don't think so. Hes been great for us domestically, but the mistakes he has made in the champions league hardly inspire confidence. Its not like we have a keeper crisis, and im not saying we need to get rid of him, i just think that we could do better, you have to look to improve.
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
Thanks my ex geordy friend!! Kanuuu just incase you don't know, we were the best defensive team last year. Obviously Jen has to concede no goals at all to give you confidence!!
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
kanuuu said:
Yes it's impressive, but that's mainly due to the defence, he rarely made saves that he wasnt expected to, he made more mistakes than good saves in my opinion, the theory that he has been excellent in the Premiership is rubbish, he made plenty of mistakes that didn't lead to goals and because we didn't lose a game they went unnoticed. I cant think of any games where he has actually won it for us, or even saved us from losing, apart from maybe Bolton away, his best performance that i can remember. Whereas Spunky used to win so many games for us it was unbelievable. Anyway this thread is going to be locked soon, its about the 10th one about lehmann.

This was last seson so i can't automatically pop stuff out my head, but there is one match we would have lost without jens, st jame's Park a crowded fixture list with teams like liverpool and man u, we were drawing and lehmaan comes up with a top draw reaction save from bellamy on his left side with a strong wrist and saves it. It was featured in saves of the season
 

solthegunner

Active Member
The bottom line is thathe cost us again last night, he got us knocked out of the cl last season and hes not learning from his mistakes. So he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
 

dafish

Active Member
people seem to forget some of jen's incredible saves. there were many times when given any other gk in the PL, they would've let the goals in rooted to their spot.

a lot of people has had prejudice against him before he even arrived from random football bs in the papers, but yet he has done sufficiently enough to get arsenal arrive at the end of the season unbeat last yr.

now i'm not saying he is No.1 and there isn't a better keeper out there. but who are u gonna bring in who's got a better reputation as well as ability? buffon? toldo? canizares? casillas? those guys are all elite keepers who arsenal can never afford, but how much better can they do than lehmann? i can't say a heck of a lot. we might give away almost no difference in goals next season had we had casillas in goal all of a sudden this season, simply because if they gotta score, they gonna score.

all keepers make mistakes though and lehmann has done what he thinks best. we're talking about a keeper who's ability is challenging the likes of Kahn on the national team and thats no mediocre challenge. not many keepers can keep up with kahn's ability (despite recent mistakes, which again happens even to the likes of him)
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
Jorgen Klinsmann called up Lehmaan called up jens infront of kahn because he couldn't ignore the fact he is undefeated in the league. So what does he do first game, make spectacular saves agaist isreal with an impressive performance and clean sheet!!
 

tox

Active Member
Arnie said:
Thanks my ex geordy friend!! Kanuuu just incase you don't know, we were the best defensive team last year. Obviously Jen has to concede no goals at all to give you confidence!!

Thats bollox, its not concedeing goals, its mistakes. Stop exaggerating. And we didn't have the the best defensive record simply because of Jens, sure he helped, but i think the back 4 were of much more importance.
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
Stop complaining about the CL game. Buffon, Toldo, Canizares,Casillas are regarded as the best in the world, so let me nit pick a bit. Canizares is the only one out of them who won his league last year, and he conceded 5 last night!!! None of the rest one a league title last year. But you still under value jen's achievements. And none of them went further than Arsenal in the the Cl with their teams so all of you are talking out your arses.

Think about that next time you put them in for replavcing our keeper!!
 

kanuuu

Established Member
Arnie said:
Thanks my ex geordy friend!! Kanuuu just incase you don't know, we were the best defensive team last year. Obviously Jen has to concede no goals at all to give you confidence!!

I dont mean how many he has conceded, i admit the goals against column was very impressive, im talking about his general goalkeeping, like running off his line needlessly, completely missing corners and crosses, poor kicking, bad temper, very few excellent saves, if you look at the number of quality saves howard pulled off last season you'll know what i mean, although his defence wasn't as good so he had more shots to actually save then Jens did.
 

kanuuu

Established Member
Stop complaining about the CL game. Buffon, Toldo, Canizares,Casillas are regarded as the best in the world, so let me nit pick a bit. Canizares is the only one out of them who won his league last year, and he conceded 5 last night!!! None of the rest one a league title last year. But you still under value jen's achievements. And none of them went further than Arsenal in the the Cl with their teams so all of you are talking out your arses.

Think about that next time you put them in for replavcing our keeper!!

Nicky Butt was in the treble winning team, does that mean he's a great player?Playing in a great team doesn't make you great.
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
tox said:
Arnie said:
Thanks my ex geordy friend!! Kanuuu just incase you don't know, we were the best defensive team last year. Obviously Jen has to concede no goals at all to give you confidence!!

Thats bollox, its not concedeing goals, its mistakes. Stop exaggerating. And we didn't have the the best defensive record simply because of Jens, sure he helped, but i think the back 4 were of much more importance.
Surely you should put it down as a back 5 and not a back 4. It's an understanding that the keeper has with his defence. Don't you think it's also an exaggeration when they say jens is hopeless and it's just the defence that keeps out the goals??
Also i think mistakes can happen all over the pitch and not just for the goalkeeper. If a player makes a bad pass and it doesn't get analysed because it didn't lead to a goal why should a goalkeeper be analysed because he made a mistake that didn't lead to a goal??
This is what i was talking about oruiginally be consistant with the arguments. If you are willing to blame the keeper for a mistake that leads to nothing, blame attackers for flicks that don't come off and we lose the ball, blame defenders for just booting the ball up the field and it doesn't reach the attacker and blame every player who fouls a player 30 yards from goal even if the shot hits row z!!
 

Arnie

Well-Known Member
kanuuu said:
Stop complaining about the CL game. Buffon, Toldo, Canizares,Casillas are regarded as the best in the world, so let me nit pick a bit. Canizares is the only one out of them who won his league last year, and he conceded 5 last night!!! None of the rest one a league title last year. But you still under value jen's achievements. And none of them went further than Arsenal in the the Cl with their teams so all of you are talking out your arses.

Think about that next time you put them in for replavcing our keeper!!

Nicky Butt was in the treble winning team, does that mean he's a great player?Playing in a great team doesn't make you great.

I would call Nicky Butt a player who is good at his job, which is defensive midfield. He has been responsible for less leakage of goals at Newcastle, he doesn't mislay many passes and he played a role that was integral to an attacking Manchester United side. Look at Claude Makele, He did his Job well for Real Madrid, what happened when he left!!

Just because they're not flair players doesn't mean they're crap!!! Please get that in ur head. Players such as defensive midfielders and goalkeepers are designed to be put down on weaknesses and never praised when they do well. Thankyou because you just gave me another prime example. You may highlight a mistake Nicky Butt does but never see the good he has done. In truth that is good in it self. His job is just to take it from the opposition and give it back to attackers to do what they do best. Jens does that to, he leaks a little amount of goals then gives it straight away to attackers for counters. That's why we score goals in 7 seconds from our own end defending a corner.
 

AFCG7

Established Member
Canizares may have concede 5 last night, but none of them were caused by him haring off his line when it wasnt needed.
 

kanuuu

Established Member
LOL i know that just because they're not flair players they aren't crap, Gilberto is one of my favourite players in the team and he certainly isn't a flair player and i always praise him when if he has done well, I just dont rate Nicky Butt at all, and the reason I used him was because you seem to think that if a player plays in a successful team then they are a great player and that because Toldo etc's teams didn't do as well as Lehmann's team then they are worse keepers.
 

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