You guys are like yoyos...

[Arnie]

But still, if lehmaan was not a good keeper would you truthfully think Arsenal could progress to the quarters?? Because i think it's damn near impossible!! The goalie has to make some good saves along the way to get to the final stages.

Like Tony Adams said in his book. It was a bad mistake by Seaman in the Cup winners cup final 95 but you could never blame him because they wouldn't be there without the saves he made in the semi final!!

 

[jay-d]

Thanks my ex geordy friend!! Kanuuu just incase you don't know, we were the best defensive team last year. Obviously Jen has to concede no goals at all to give you confidence!!

I dont mean how many he has conceded, i admit the goals against column was very impressive, im talking about his general goalkeeping, like running off his line needlessly, completely missing corners and crosses, poor kicking, bad temper, very few excellent saves, if you look at the number of quality saves howard pulled off last season you'll know what i mean, although his defence wasn't as good so he had more shots to actually save then Jens did.

Is this the same Howard who keeps getting dropped by Fungus, Howards howlers far outway Jens's yes he makes a few fancy saves but sometimes the key to a quality keeper is the starting position which then doesn't require them to fling their self across the goal ala Dudek, Jens has made a few mistakes but he brings a lot more to our defensive play than neccesarily meets the eye.

 

[Arnie]

Err Howard is an example of a flair goalkeeper. Does extravagant stuff well but basic stuff poorly. That's why he was dropped!! I think a great save is judged by how good the shot is. If not many good shots are coming through because of an excellent defence, how do u expect jens to make thos great saves you want??

 

[kanuuu]

I didn't say Howard was a better keeper than Lehmann but i used him as an example of someone who pulls off match winning saves, and lehmann does the "basic stuff poor" aswell, so i think he needs to be pulling off match winning saves to make up for his errors, and i think if Lehmann was at United he would've been dropped by now.

 

[Arnie]

How can use a player as an example to compare how he does things alot better and then say they are not as good a goalkeeper, that is contradicting yourself!!

 

[goonerlove]

Yoyo'd?

Get your facts straight. Perhaps there are some who change their story to fit the latest info, but not all of us have.

I have consistently said:

Lehmann is a VERY GOOD keeper with 2 weaknesses:

1) Crosses/set pieces - he flaps too often and looks lost every once in a while (it just so happens the Pana game was one example)
2) He can be a head case - and that does cost us something from time to time.

Defending him or attacking him, I don't really care. My view is that the keeper position is still the most easily upgradeable in our lineup. We are so solid at almost every position, that the only two I would target in January or next summer are RB/CB (cover and depth for Lauren and or CB) and keeper (I think we can do better). All this emotional blah blah blah defending or criticizing him is pointless - whether we are a better team with someone else is a legit question and people shouldn't get so worked up about it.

Goonerlove

 

[kanuuu]

How can use a player as an example to compare how he does things alot better and then say they are not as good a goalkeeper, that is contradicting yourself!!

I just used him as an example of someone who pulls off match winning saves, which some people have suggested Jens does, but i've rarely seen it.

 

[tox]

Yoyo'd?

Get your facts straight. Perhaps there are some who change their story to fit the latest info, but not all of us have.

I have consistently said:

Lehmann is a VERY GOOD keeper with 2 weaknesses:

1) Crosses/set pieces - he flaps too often and looks lost every once in a while (it just so happens the Pana game was one example)
2) He can be a head case - and that does cost us something from time to time.

Defending him or attacking him, I don't really care. My view is that the keeper position is still the most easily upgradeable in our lineup. We are so solid at almost every position, that the only two I would target in January or next summer are RB/CB (cover and depth for Lauren and or CB) and keeper (I think we can do better). All this emotional blah blah blah defending or criticizing him is pointless - whether we are a better team with someone else is a legit question and people shouldn't get so worked up about it.

Goonerlove

Exactly how i feel. We should always be looking to improve are team, and Lehman is one of the weaker links in it.

 

[Canuck]

Buffon, Toldo, Canizares,Casillas are regarded as the best in the world, so let me nit pick a bit. Canizares is the only one out of them who won his league last year, and he conceded 5 last night!!!

Mull that over you whiners!

 

[goonerlove]

Goals conceded frequently has less to do with the keeper than it does the performance of the two teams.

Look at our game against Villa - Postma was immense, but he conceded 3 goals.

It isn't that easy to rate a keeper - I've said it before that it is probably the hardest position for us "armchair" managers to evaluate, especially on a team that so frequently dominates their opponents.

I think those 5 keepers you mention above ARE better than Lehmann and I would love AW to work his magic and find the next Schmiechel some time in the next year.

Goonerlove

 

[Biggus]

Canizares may have concede 5 last night, but none of them were caused by him haring off his line when it wasnt needed.

So you read the situation differently...
Was this analysis made by you safely sitting on your arse in a bar drinking beer by any chance?
How many people here have played in goal?

 

[AFCG7]

You dont have to play in goal to know when a keeper makes the same mistake 3 times.

 

[Sammer]

You dont have to play in goal to know when a keeper makes the same mistake 3 times.

AFCG7,

Arsène wants him to sweep and rush out - this has worked so many times, but everytime Jens does (due to Arsène´s request), he has a high risk of looking really stupid if things go wrong.

As long as we have Jens with him playing to Arsène´s wanted sweeping style, as long as goals like the 1st goal yesterday can happen once in a while. The question is: does he do well generally or is a general liability - and his stats and records say - HELL NO !

The old fashion keeping is history. Staying on the line like glue is the old days and does not fit a modern squad like Arsenals any more.

Sweeping means - taking some burden off the defence, but when things go wrong, you concede a goal and the keeper looks bad.

If Jens does it again in a couple of months - I don´t have much of a problem because THEY ALL MAKE MISTAKES (sorry for the caps).
But in the meantime ,he has saved our a** lots of times.

 

[Olofski]

Stop complaining about the CL game. Buffon, Toldo, Canizares,Casillas are regarded as the best in the world, so let me nit pick a bit. Canizares is the only one out of them who won his league last year.

It´s obvious that only one of Canizares and Casillas can win their domestic league in the same year! Basically in a good year only 50% of the above mentioned goalies can call themselves domestic champions.

Anyway this yoyo thing, there are almost 3 500 more or less active members in this forum, seriously how many members are there that are praising Lehmann one week and pissing on his name the week after?

 

[kanuuu]

Anyway this yoyo thing, there are almost 3 500 more or less active members in this forum, seriously how many members are there that are praising Lehmann one week and pissing on his name the week after?

Very good point mate.

 

[Loylz]

You dont have to play in goal to know when a keeper makes the same mistake 3 times.

AFCG7,

Arsène wants him to sweep and rush out - this has worked so many times, but everytime Jens does (due to Arsène´s request), he has a high risk of looking really stupid if things go wrong.

As long as we have Jens with him playing to Arsène´s wanted sweeping style, as long as goals like the 1st goal yesterday can happen once in a while. The question is: does he do well generally or is a general liability - and his stats and records say - HELL NO !

The old fashion keeping is history. Staying on the line like glue is the old days and does not fit a modern squad like Arsenals any more.

Sweeping means - taking some burden off the defence, but when things go wrong, you concede a goal and the keeper looks bad.

If Jens does it again in a couple of months - I don´t have much of a problem because THEY ALL MAKE MISTAKES (sorry for the caps).
But in the meantime ,he has saved our a** lots of times.

As you are my witness I have to be one of Lehmann's staunchest defenders. I have always backed him up and always found reasons for his short comings. No very often but when they do I there was always a reason. But from last night I think Lehmann needs to hold his hands up and accept his mistakes. Maybe they weren't completely his fault liek no defender running to the line for the first goal or the defence not dealing with the second but they were mistakes, and were probably the only mistakes we mad eon the night, and had we it not been for even one of those two we would have wpn comfortably. I know if we won people would forget about this like water under a bridge but we have to recognise ths weakness. I may be over the top on this slightly but mainly due to frustrations about last night which are still within me. After a rest I'm sure I will feel differently but now I am very depressed.

 

[gunnertilldeath]

i will admit i am one of the flip floppers (if you will let me borrow american political lingo). jens just pissed me off. the steam has been let out and i am still a little angry but i am not pissed off enough to repeat some of my comments from yesterday.

 

[Henry IV]

I'm on Lehmann's side. I think he does a solid and reasonable job for us. He has been in goal for 47 of the 49 unbeaten PL matches. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[Anonymous]

actually hes been in goal 49 of the 49 matches ^^

 

[KingReyes]

actually hes been in goal 49 of the 49 matches ^^

Its 47 from 49, Lehmann wasn't even with Arsenal for the first 2 games of the run. That was in the 2002/03 season when we still had Seaman.