Youngsters. Do they even have a chance?

[thegame24]

I feel a few of our youngsters are getting slated now but its obvious they have talent. The problem is they need to be alongside world class players in order to improve just look at Cesc and Clichy who were blooded into the the invincible team.

Im also just watching Barca now and they to are blooding youngsters in to a world class side, there is no doubt those youngsters will be starters evetually.

Basically, are all the youngsters screwed since they havnt got the opportunity to play alongside world class players.

Im sure if you put, messi, fabs, benzema and other youngsters all together during the start of their careers they to would faulter and in turn not become the players they are today.

 

[SimplyFabregas]

Although i think it helps greatly to come through playing with experienced players around you.

I also think truly exceptional youngsters(Cesc, Messi)would come through regardless of the players around them.

 

[ricky1985]

I feel a few of our youngsters are getting slated now but its obvious they have talent. The problem is they need to be alongside world class players in order to improve just look at Cesc and Clichy who were blooded into the the invincible team.

Im also just watching Barca now and they to are blooding youngsters in to a world class side, there is no doubt those youngsters will be starters evetually.

Basically, are all the youngsters screwed since they havnt got the opportunity to play alongside world class players.

Im sure if you put, messi, fabs, benzema and other youngsters all together during the start of their careers they to would faulter and in turn not become the players they are today.

It's a great point mate, and with football being the squad game it is today, I think Wenger should go out and really reinforce the squad in January and then let the youngsters make up the squad, and eventually win their place in the first XI.

 

[Anzac]

This point has been brought up in several other threads - and yes I agree with the thrust of it.

Far from being the ideal finishing school for the youngsters IMO all AW is doing is throwing them in at the deep end & giving them playing time. I'll even go so far as to say that IMO this level of constant exposure & expectation is detrimental to their development (let alone the team performance/consistancy); as is the lack of match time for the 2nd tier such as Ramsey, Wilshere, Vela this season (I'd have taken any of them on the flanks v Boro).

Much of this is down to too many such players being blooded at the same time. None of Denilson, Song, Diaby, Walcott, Nasri, Djourou or Bendtner can be considered established or the finished product, and we have Ramsey, Wilshere, Vela & Fabianski on the bench. IMO the situation is only going to get worse when we add in the likes of Barazite, Merida, Randall, Simpson, Gibbs, Traore, Hoyte etc, some of whom are on loan getting regular PL & Championship playing time ahead of the likes of our current bench.

 

[True Gooner]

I agree with thegame24.

I mean, you brought up Barcelona - but apart from Messi (who is a freak of nature anyway) the rest who started today were seasoned professionals not young, unproven albeit talented teenagers. Bojan, Busquets and Pique didn't get thrown into the game simply because they're really talented and do well in training.

Of course, in the future if Bojan and co. look ready its important to give them a chance to stake their claim by moving out the competition. We've moved out the competition without making sure that the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Song are ready for 38 odd games a season.

You can't bring through Diaby, Denilson and Song at the same time without making sure that there isn't a single established player in front of them. Its poor management - and its not doing much good is it? If Denilson was a player who got a majority of his games off the bench/behind Flamini or Fabregas I guarantee that he wouldn't have half as many critics. Its not his fault that hes being asked to do something he isn't ready for.

Also, I agree with whoever said that its not the number of games that a player gets to play, but what a player takes out of a game that counts.

At the end of the day I love and admire our youth policy and giving players a chance to shine but we've taken it a bit too far this season.

 

[TomasCR]

Read the title of this thread and said Jesus, just another of those "let´s give them a chance now" thread but no, you have a good point and basically, I agree with you.

We have always had great talents but to get them on the same level Cesc is for example, it requires great players playing around. This point has already been made somewhere but there are simply no players the youngsters could learn from and that´s a shame.

I wouldn´t continue with this Barcelona debate though, it makes me feel sick you know.

 

[dos1986]

More Sympathy again :roll:

Any fella 21 over isnt a youngster in the modern game.Cesc, Clichy, Gallas, Djourou, Sagna, Almunia, Rvp, Ade, Nasri etcetera are not youngsters, they are young men like all the guys at the other teams.

We are not that young, why do we keep using that stupid excuse?

How often do Ramsey, Wilshere, Vela & Fabianski, Barazite, Merida, Randall, Simpson, Gibbs, Traore, Hoyte play in the Prem?Not often.

Are we abusing them?No.

Some of ye might have to accept that these " young men " are not up to it.Its that simple.

 

[Illusion]

Nearly ended up writing my own thread along these lines.

Too many youngsters thrust into the first team alone without proper guidance, yet the full force of pressure from the fans and media is upon them constantly.

We all know the players have the talent and potential it's just a case of how much they have and how quickly they can show it.

In my world it would work very basically like this:

Those that show their talent slower than others tend to be the ones that get sold off or moved along, those that show it in patches tend to get loaned out before being sorted into the 'will make it' or 'wont make it' levels. Finally, the exceptional ones will force themselves into the team through sheer quality and as a result of this you build a very strong squad with the balance of youth and experience which has an overall quality flowing throughout.

This is not the way things are happening now and we are most certainly facing the burden of too many youth players. We love most of them and don't want them to be sold on only to succeed elsewhere, but that's the way it goes. There are only eleven starting spots and only the best are going to make it, that is the level Arsenal are at.

We could fund the purchase of a couple of superstars by selling the likes of Aliadiere and co at the right times. Five million here and there soon adds up to a lot of money and with the amount of youth prospects we have around there isn't room to do anything but sell some of them.

 

[thegame24]

More Sympathy again :roll:

Any fella 21 over isnt a youngster in the modern game.Cesc, Clichy, Gallas, Djourou, Sagna, Almunia, Rvp, Ade, Nasri etcetera are not youngsters, they are young men like all the guys at the other teams.

We are not that young, why do we keep using that stupid excuse?

How often do Ramsey, Wilshere, Vela & Fabianski, Barazite, Merida, Randall, Simpson, Gibbs, Traore, Hoyte play in the Prem?Not often.

Are we abusing them?No.

Some of ye might have to accept that these " young men " are not up to it.Its that simple.

The point is the youngsters we are playing are alongside **** players or equally young players.

 

[dos1986]

The point is the youngsters we are playing are alongside s**t players or equally young players.

We are hardly unique.

Only one youngster started today in Denilson and one off the bench in Bender.

Boro had two youngsters as well.

 

[thegame24]

And what about when we want to blood in vela, ramsey etc they are also going to end up playing with A) **** players and B) young players.

Point is our youngsters will never be good at the rate we are going so its a waste of time having them

 

[dos1986]

And what about when we want to blood in vela, ramsey etc they are also going to end up playing with A) s**t players and B) young players.

Point is our youngsters will never be good at the rate we are going so its a waste of time having them

He doesnt start 6 youngsters together in the Prem.

If they are not better than the **** players, then they can leave like the others.You make your own way in life.

 

[Zico]

There are two types of youngster.

There is the kid who is hot as fresh **** who will become a player of superior ability regardless of the team you put him in. I think that Ramsey and Wilshere probably fall into this category, following in Cesc's footsteps. They're talented, driven, precocious. We should not be scared to play them.

Then there is the other youngster who needs to have good players around him to comfort him, cushion him and guide him. The majority of developing players fall in this category, including the majority of our starting midfield today. These players can learn nothing from playing with each other and, together, make enough mistakes to render the team useless. Wenger will probably limit the growth of Denilson, Diaby and Song by playing them all together. We need to CMs and a winger to replace them, so that they can come off the bench, play one a time, and fight to belong to the starting line-up of the greatest club on earth.

 

[lagos]

completely agree

 

[Anzac]

There are two types of youngster.

There is the kid who is hot as fresh s**t who will become a player of superior ability regardless of the team you put him in. I think that Ramsey and Wilshere probably fall into this category, following in Cesc's footsteps. They're talented, driven, precocious. We should not be scared to play them.

Then there is the other youngster who needs to have good players around him to comfort him, cushion him and guide him. The majority of developing players fall in this category, including the majority of our starting midfield today. These players can learn nothing from playing with each other and, together, make enough mistakes to render the team useless. Wenger will probably limit the growth of Denilson, Diaby and Song by playing them all together. We need to CMs and a winger to replace them, so that they can come off the bench, play one a time, and fight to belong to the starting line-up of the greatest club on earth.

Re bold underlined - IMO he's already been doing that even prior to this season - too many on the fringe at the same time - not enough loans for game time prior to stepping up for the senior squad.

Wilshere should go on loan now along with a few others from the C Cup squad - Barazite is due to come back from loan. Depending on any purchases made in Jan then some of the likes of Denilson, Diaby, Song, Bendtner also need to go on loan as well, but not all - we still need to retain a few for the bench - Eboue, Song, Vela, Ramsey & Barazite are my picks to retain for our bench, along with Fabianski, Silvestre & Toure.

 

[thegame24]

I dont care how good youngsters are, put them together and they wont be consistent.

 

[SimplyFabregas]

Wilshere should go on loan now along with a few others from the C Cup squad - Barazite is due to come back from loan. Depending on any purchases made in Jan then some of the likes of Denilson, Diaby, Song, Bendtner also need to go on loan as well, but not all - we still need to retain a few for the bench - Eboue, Song, Vela, Ramsey & Barazite are my picks to retain for our bench, along with Fabianski, Silvestre & Touré.

Why would we send Wilshere out on loan?, did we send Cesc out on loan?, Wilshere is already better than most of those people you named on the bench.

I don't care what people say, Wilshere is a special talent, and somebody were going to see have a similar rise through the ranks that Cesc had. Lionel Messi was getting first team football at Barcelona at 17, i just think some people are just to fixated on age, rather than talent when it comes to some of these players.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Of course we shouldn't send Wilshere on loan. He's seventeen in a month. He benefits so much more from being here than sitting on the bench somewhere else or playing in a lower division where they don't need his talents. When he's old enough to go on loan somewhere where he will actually learn something he'll already be getting games regularly at Arsenal.

 

[thegame24]

Can you imagine Jack Wilshere coming on for bergkamp in the invincibles side

Back 5

Reyes Vieira Gilberto Pires

Wilshere

Henry

Thats how players become class quickly.


T

 

[Zico]

There is no need to send Wilshere on loan. Players are generally sent on loan if they need to improve or if there is a long line of challengers ahead of them for a starting berth. Neither applies to Wilshere. He should stay, along with Ramsey.

The players who need to go on loan are those who need to improve. That starting midfield yesterday, bar Fabregas, are all players whose games are skeletal. They need time at Wigan where Steve Bruce will start them every weekend. They'll get the requisite training, but not at the expense of success for Arsenal.