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Youri Tielemans

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drippin

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Country: Finland
When man like @maxxspeed talks about speeds you better listen !
Well if Guendouzi isn't slow, then Xhaka isn't either. I give you that he is a bit faster than Elneny and Torreira. Whoopdiduu.

In any case, he doesn't have acceleration either. That's not easy to find proof of though.

He doesn't have to be fast, but I doubt Tielemans is much slower.

ArsenalSpeed.jpg
 

GoonerJeeves

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Villa had some cover for Luiz and still didn't sell him for 25 million pounds with a year in contract. Clubs value players in similar ways, and Leicester & Villa are similar level clubs. Leicester paid 28 million euros more for Tielemans than Villa for Luiz.

So you can be certain that the price wasn't 25 million pounds. Tielemans is much more rated player (Luiz is pretty average), so because the transfer didn't happen, I assume they asked for too much, and it's likely they wanted their money back which was 45 million euros.

Romano says they wanted 35-40 million euros, which would surely be too much for Arteta for a player with a year in contract. But this is quite similar amount to what I assume Villa wanted for Luiz who is worse.

Now Arsenal has a chance for the title, so I assume they're willing to spend 15-20 million for Tielemans.

"Leicester City are holding out for between 35 and 40 million euros for midfield man Youri Tielemans, according to transfer journalist Fabrizio Romano."

I'm not sure it is quite that simple. We lodged our bid for Luiz very close to deadline, with Villa having a poor start of the season. We could have moved for Tielemans early, with Leicester having time to find a replacement.

That being said, this is all in the past. I believe that in regards to Tielemans, things will be quiet until Belgium is out of the World Cup.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
I'm not sure it is quite that simple. We lodged our bid for Luiz very close to deadline, with Villa having a poor start of the season. We could have moved for Tielemans early, with Leicester having time to find a replacement.

That being said, this is all in the past. I believe that in regards to Tielemans, things will be quiet until Belgium is out of the World Cup.
So do you think Leicester would have wanted 35-40 million euros like Romano tweeted? Or what?

To me it's pretty obvious that they asked too much for what Arsenal was ready to pay. The rumours about it have been circling for ages.
 

GoonerJeeves

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So do you think Leicester would have wanted 35-40 million euros like Romano tweeted? Or what?

To me it's pretty obvious that they asked too much for what Arsenal was ready to pay. The rumours about it have been circling for ages.
I think none of us can know what Leicester would have wanted. It is purely conjectural at this point. None of us know whether we are even interested. The latter part is my entire point. Is Arteta even interested in him?

Perhaps I could have made that point more clearly, though at the moment I am at a loss on how...
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
I think none of us can know what Leicester would have wanted. It is purely conjectural at this point. None of us know whether we are even interested. The latter part is my entire point. Is Arteta even interested in him?

Perhaps I could have made that point more clearly, though at the moment I am at a loss on how...
We have had rumours in this thread since January 2022, even from local papers. Tielemans has been highly rated for ages. We need quality depth. He has contract until 2023, is EPL proven, very experienced for a midfielder and 25,5 years old. Just what Arteta and Edu have focus on.

Arteta bought Sambi. He is CMF, who is Belgian. Tielemans is like Super Sambi.

What makes you think Arteta wouldn't want Tielemans for cheap? Many top clubs would want him with 6 months left or a free transfer.
 

GoonerJeeves

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We have had rumours in this thread since January 2022, even from local papers. Tielemans has been highly rated for ages. We need quality depth. He has contract until 2023, is EPL proven, very experienced for a midfielder and 25,5 years old. Just what Arteta and Edu have focus on.

Arteta bought Sambi. He is CMF, who is Belgian. Tielemans is like Super Sambi.

What makes you doubt Arteta wouldn't want Tielemans for cheap? Many top clubs would want him with 6 months left or a free transfer.
My doubt is mostly connected to why we have not made a move earlier. Then again, I'm not absolute, a doubt is not an absolute. The rumours are longstanding, but they are not backed up by concrete evidence.

You could argue that Tielemans has not performed that well in recent months, but neither have Leicester.

I rate the player, and as mentioned above, if we can get him for £15m, I think it is worthy of serious consideration. I am not so sure Arteta sees it that way though. That is my point. He tends to be rather ruthless, if he had really wanted the player, would we not have moved? If there had been a bid, and a rejection, that would have been known by now.

In any case, we will soon know. Should Belgium go out early, I would think that we would move, if Arteta is interested.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
My doubt is mostly connected to why we have not made a move earlier. Then again, I'm not absolute, a doubt is not an absolute. The rumours are longstanding, but they are not backed up by concrete evidence.

You could argue that Tielemans has not performed that well in recent months, but neither have Leicester.

I rate the player, and as mentioned above, if we can get him for £15m, I think it is worthy of serious consideration. I am not so sure Arteta sees it that way though. That is my point. He tends to be rather ruthless, if he had really wanted the player, would we not have moved? If there had been a bid, and a rejection, that would have been known by now.

In any case, we will soon know.
The logical assumption is that Leicester asked too much for a player with a year in contract. No need to bid if the estimations are too far away. Romano said 35-40 million euros, and for Leicester he likely was that valuable. Not relegating for example is very valuable, same as getting into European contests.

Arteta wasn't going to buy a midfielder in the summer. There were rumours of FFP problems. He only bid 25 million for Luiz after Elneny's bad injury. It could be that they were willing to wait until next summer, as the rumours seem to say that Tielemans prefers Arsenal over other clubs.

Now after such a great start to the season and competing for the title, and Arteta himself saying there isn't enough quality depth (while Sambi hasn't improved much), it could be that they're willing to pay now rather than wait. What Tielemans could guarantee at least, is UCL qualification which brings a lot of money. Last season that wasn't the expectation.

But it all depends on Leicester, if they still think Tielemans is very important for staying up and ask too much.
 

GoonerJeeves

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The logical assumption is that Leicester asked too much for a player with a year in contract. No need to bid if the estimations are too far away. Romano said 35-40 million euros, and for Leicester he likely was that valuable. Not relegating for example is very valuable, same as getting into European contests.

Arteta wasn't going to buy a midfielder in the summer. There were rumours of FFP problems. He only bid 25 million for Luiz after Elneny's bad injury. It could be that they were willing to wait until next summer, as the rumours seem to say that Tielemans prefers Arsenal over other clubs.

Now after such a great start to the season and competing for the title, and Arteta himself saying there isn't enough quality depth (while Sambi hasn't improved much), it could be that they're willing to pay now rather than wait. What Tielemans could guarantee at least, is UCL qualification which brings a lot of money. Last season that wasn't the expectation.

But it all depends on Leicester, if they still think Tielemans is very important for staying up and ask too much.
An assumption is just that, an assumption. I would not put too much into what Fabrizio Romano said. I don't think Leicester saw themselves as relegation candidates before the season either.

In any case, we are going in circles. We will know this window if we move for Tielemans. I think you can make a good case for doing that.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
An assumption is just that, an assumption. I would not put too much into what Fabrizio Romano said. I don't think Leicester saw themselves as relegation candidates before the season either.

In any case, we are going in circles. We will know this window if we move for Tielemans. I think you can make a good case for doing that.
Yeah, just found that Romano tweet when searching for something relating to my remembering of Leicester wanting their money back for him. But what Romano said is what my logic also said. Which is that staying up or getting European football is very important to clubs, more important than 30 million. And like we saw with Luiz, they can hope that they have a good season and the player wants to renew, which Luiz did even with a bad season.

But yeah, because like you say that Arteta seems ruthless, I assume he is willing to sell Sambi for like 10 million euros, and get Tielemans in as a free transfer or max. 20 million euros in January. Makes too much sense.
 

Legend14

Established Member
And I wouldn’t even worry about his work ethic/attitude with Arteta.

It’s one of his non-negotiables ™️ and I’m sure that would be communicated before he’s even signed. I believe any player can be made into a hard worker (on the pitch) anyway.

If you see everyone around you playing well and working hard you’d have to be some kind of wrongun to not join in, it’s infectious.
Agree. Saw him at beginning of season. Didn’t think he was fit or motivated. Saw him recently and he was fit and working hard even though he didn’t have a good match technically. I think he is ready for Arteta. He’ll be a better player here than there.
 

TornadoTed

Established Member
Here is a comparison of Xhaka vs Tielemans in their whole EPL career. Take into account that Tielemans came to EPL 1,5 younger than Xhaka, which is quite much for a midfielder. Their age difference is almost 5 years so Tielemans is only coming to his prime.

You can look at possession, and see that overall Tielemans has had a bit more attacking touches than Xhaka, of course this season evens it out.

Defensively you can see that Tielemans is dribbled past 1.60 vs 1.04 per 90. Otherwise only in clearances Xhaka has better stats basically. Recoveries and aerial percentage are almost same. Xhaka has been better passer thus far with about 85% vs 80% in whole EPL career. But I assume Tielemans has gotten better there as he gets older.

Tielemans has somewhat better attacking stats and shot creating actions.

I'm not sure where this comes from that Tielemans can't be as good as Xhaka or Ødegaard. It's the level we need. He was very highly rated before last year when he lost motivation as he hasn't got his move. Pretty sure he would have better stats playing for Arsenal than Leicester, Leicester has been bad for a while which affects his stats.

Arsenal is at a point where we need quality rotation, and with 80-100k per week you can't get that. Maybe someone like Seko Fofana from Ligue 1, but then you have to pay much bigger transfer fee, especially as Lens is fighting for UCL spots so that move likely isn't possible in January. They're currently 2nd after PSG, with a 5 point lead to the next club. And Fofana is 2 years older and not EPL proven.

Press "toggle per 90" for all.

You make some good points which and he 'could' come here and displace one of our midfield, he has the talent. However I stand by my point, the wages we are going to have to pay are too high for me.

Someone like Juve or Barca will happily give him £200k per week and a nice signing on bonus when he is a free agent in the Summer, they are all over signings like this.

I wouldn't be happy with making him one of our highest earners when he has shown some worrying slumps in form over the last 18 months. That maybe that things have just gone stale at Leicester but there is still the gamble that he has deeper routed attitude issues.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
You make some good points which and he 'could' come here and displace one of our midfield, he has the talent. However I stand by my point, the wages we are going to have to pay are too high for me.

Someone like Juve or Barca will happily give him £200k per week and a nice signing on bonus when he is a free agent in the Summer, they are all over signings like this.

I wouldn't be happy with making him one of our highest earners when he has shown some worrying slumps in form over the last 18 months. That maybe that things have just gone stale at Leicester but there is still the gamble that he has deeper routed attitude issues.
If he has 80k more wages for 5 year contract than let's say Seko Fofana (this is the level we need, Bruno Guimaraes earns 120k pounds per week), that makes it 19 million more over the length of contract.

Let's say Tielemans costs 21 million in January, while Fofana costs 40 million (he will cost more in January I think, they're 2nd in the league by a 5 point lead, The Athletic says Bruno Guimaraes cost 50 million euros in January when I think Lyon wasn't competing for Europe places). 21 million plus 19 million makes it 40 million. Fofana is two years older so has less resale value/can play less time for the club.

This is how clubs looks at transfer fees. Fofana will very likely be more expensive because of these matters combined, even when he has 2,5 years in contract like I think Bruno had. And Tielemans is EPL proven, already totally adjusted to England.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
If he has 80k more wages for 5 year contract than let's say Seko Fofana (this is the level we need, Bruno Guimaraes earns 120k pounds per week), that makes it 19 million more over the length of contract.

Let's say Tielemans costs 21 million in January, while Fofana costs 40 million (he will cost more in January I think, they're 2nd in the league by a 5 point lead, The Athletic says Bruno Guimaraes cost 50 million euros in January when I think Lyon wasn't competing for Europe places). 21 million plus 19 million makes it 40 million. Fofana is two years older so has less resale value/can play less time for the club.

This is how clubs looks at transfer fees. Fofana will very likely be more expensive because of these matters combined, even when he has 2,5 years in contract like I think Bruno had. And Tielemans is EPL proven, already totally adjusted to England.
It’s been proven over and over free transfers are expensive than most people think. You can’t rate players on money spent if you can afford them. If fofana is better than Tielesman then he is simply better value. You can’t look at football with numbers and say yes this player is better, but is he twice better because he cost two times more. Until the PL make rules that says pointS based on spending its mute point
 

Legend14

Established Member
Well if Guendouzi isn't slow, then Xhaka isn't either. I give you that he is a bit faster than Elneny and Torreira. Whoopdiduu.

In any case, he doesn't have acceleration either. That's not easy to find proof of though.

He doesn't have to be fast, but I doubt Tielemans is much slower.

ArsenalSpeed.jpg
Been trying to tell people Özil had pace.
 

Makavelii

Active Member
Would he be a good culture fit for the team?

I think that’s proving to be an important part of this team. Don’t want to add a bad egg or someone who keeps to themselves too much to kill the good vibes.

Mod Citation: hideous bump btw
 
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