Rumour Youri Tielemans

Gn1212

Well-Known Member
The reason that Tielemans is exciting, and a significant upgrade to our current options is that he has a rare ability to both be very productive in terms of creativity and goal threat, but also have enough bite and defensive nous to play deeper in a midfield two. Obviously a different player to Guimaraes (who I really rate), but apart from his PL pedigree he also has much better offensive output - he's averaged around 5 goals + 5 assists from central midfield for 3 seasons running. Bruno can't match that (although as you said he brings more defensive balance). Tielemans (was) 5th in the league for open play chances created this year and of those 5 players has by far the highest number of tackles and possession in the middle third of the pitch. Not saying he's a defensive player, but he's not a lightweight like most attacking mids, but he still gets the numbers.

That's why you pay the big money for him and I hope we do if there's a chance.

Think defending is an area that he lacks actually. I've often found him as useless as Sambi ans Xhaka defensively. Tidy player but Ndidi has been covering for him a lot.
Doubt we'll be hearing as much praise for him if he didn't have him doing the dirty work.
It becomes more evident when he plays for Belgium.
 

TornadoTed

Well-Known Member
Think defending is an area that he lacks actually. I've often found him as useless as Sambi ans Xhaka defensively. Tidy player but Ndidi has been covering for him a lot.
Doubt we'll be hearing as much praise for him if he didn't have him doing the dirty work.
It becomes more evident when he plays for Belgium.
I feel the same, he has looked a liability defensively when I have seen him, it just about works because of having a pure defensive mid in Ndidi beside him. If anyone doubts what I say watch the highlights from Leicester's 6-3 defeat at City a few weeks back, he gave away 2 penalties as well as losing his man on so many occasions it was laughable. Even with all his brain dead moments it was a worse display than I have ever seen from Xhaka.
 

The_Playmaker

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A lot of it has set up and team mate playing big role. For example Tilesman wasn’t hood in France and Monaco got rid and cashed in on his name before his stock went down. I just don’t see a special player there and we can get equal and better player cheaper

In big moments he can win matches. It is fine looking good in France. However he has won an FA Cup for his side vs a top team. You pay the money because he is proven. Bruno is still more of a gamble.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
I'm still surprised we're linked to this guy, but it's a pleasant surprised feeling because he's absolutely the type of player we're lacking but I'm surprised Arteta wants this kind of player. We're in such desperate need of a true box-to-box type player who'll get into the opposition box, he can burst forward, make third man runs and be that extra support in an attacking sense so that all the responsibility doesn't fall on Ødegaard or the 10.

Partey and Xhaka are both better a bit deeper, tho neither are really a 6 they're not exactly gonna contribute offensively in a way Tielemens is going to. And has been said he's a game changer and a match winner too. You get Vlahovic who can score for one, you get Tielemens who can add something we lack and all of a sudden we're a completely different animal. We'd be 100% back to being a CL side and not look out of place.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
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I'm still surprised we're linked to this guy, but it's a pleasant surprised feeling because he's absolutely the type of player we're lacking but I'm surprised Arteta wants this kind of player. We're in such desperate need of a true box-to-box type player who'll get into the opposition box, he can burst forward, make third man runs and be that extra support in an attacking sense so that all the responsibility doesn't fall on Ødegaard or the 10.

Partey and Xhaka are both better a bit deeper, tho neither are really a 6 they're not exactly gonna contribute offensively in a way Tielemens is going to. And has been said he's a game changer and a match winner too. You get Vlahovic who can score for one, you get Tielemens who can add something we lack and all of a sudden we're a completely different animal. We'd be 100% back to being a CL side and not look out of place.

Tbh I don’t think we need a b-2-b Gerrard type player to score and everything, I think we need a Kroos or a Cesc, an elite passer, we almost had one in Xhaka but obviously it turned out he didn’t have a brain.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
Tbh I don’t think we need a b-2-b Gerrard type player to score and everything, I think we need a Kroos or a Cesc, an elite passer, we almost had one in Xhaka but obviously it turned out he didn’t have a brain.

Not just in scoring but look at what KDB does for City, we don't have that at all. I think especially in the PL it's important to have a player making those third mans runs and carrying the ball up the pitch and contributing offensively from a deeper position. Goals is a bonus, but in terms of helping breaking down deep blocks I think a player of that profile comes in handy.
 

MikelHadADream

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Tbh I don’t think we need a b-2-b Gerrard type player to score and everything, I think we need a Kroos or a Cesc, an elite passer, we almost had one in Xhaka but obviously it turned out he didn’t have a brain.

Both would be nice. Have a guy next to Partey that sets the tempo then a B2B type to come in and provide competition to Ødegaard and the CMs. Would probably allow us to go 433 in certain games as well.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Bruno G and Tielemans are very similar statistically. Where Bruno is better defensively, Tielemans is better at shooting and variation of pass. Other than that. Pretty even.

The big difference is that Tielemans is putting up those numbers in England. I feel like Tielemans has more leadership qualities also. Captain at such a young age. I don't see why we shouldn't go for him.
I don't know anything about Guimaraes so can't comment. Tielemans is a good player and would obviously be an upgrade for us, still I find flaws in his decision making and defensive work.

Maybe I just expect too much but I find player's decision making (in attack particularly) really lack lustre these days. The number of players who just don't have a clue when they get it in the hole or with a defence that's backing up just baffles me.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
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Not just in scoring but look at what KDB does for City, we don't have that at all. I think especially in the PL it's important to have a player making those third mans runs and carrying the ball up the pitch and contributing offensively from a deeper position. Goals is a bonus, but in terms of helping breaking down deep blocks I think a player of that profile comes in handy.

Isn’t ESR supposed to be that guy?
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
Tbh I don’t think we need a b-2-b Gerrard type player to score and everything, I think we need a Kroos or a Cesc, an elite passer, we almost had one in Xhaka but obviously it turned out he didn’t have a brain.
A true B2B midfielder goes against the principles of positional play. Arteta wants a Gundogan type. A high volume passer, goal threat, good under pressure, good vision and can press. If Partey is our Rodri/Fernandinho and Ødegaard is our KdB. Then we need to find the new Gundogan, who ironically used to be more box-to-box at Dortmund.

I’m not sure Gundogan is anything special defensively but if you’re adept at winning second balls and can press I think it will be enough. Keeping the ball is the best defence possible. I prefer Neves. I really want De Jong but I suspect City or Bayern will be all over that. I think Neves is stylistically close to the German, more so than Tielmans. But Tielmans is definitely someone who could be that game changer in midfield.
 

Batman

Bruce Wayne
A true B2B midfielder goes against the principles of positional play. Arteta wants a Gundogan type. A high volume passer, goal threat, good under pressure, good vision and can press. If Partey is our Rodri/Fernandinho and Ødegaard is our KdB. Then we need to find the new Gundogan, who ironically used to be more box-to-box at Dortmund.

I’m not sure Gundogan is anything special defensively but if you’re adept at winning second balls and can press I think it will be enough. Keeping the ball is the best defence possible. I prefer Neves. I really want De Jong but I suspect City or Bayern will be all over that. I think Neves is stylistically close to the German, more so than Tielmans. But Tielmans is definitely someone who could be that game changer in midfield.
What? 🤣We play nothing like City, show absolutely nothing that indicates a desire to play like City and yet you're confidently stating that Arteta is looking for archetypes(that aren't even close comparatively)to fit a style of play that there has not been a whiff of under his stewardship. Nobody has any idea what Arteta is actually trying to do in the midfield. Also, the notion that a box to box midfielder is somehow in conflict with positional play is patently ludicrous. Look at the positioning of players like Tomi and White when we get into the final third and then tell me that this manager cares at all about the principles of positional play in the first place or that a midfielder roaming from box to box is somehow more of an affront to the concept.
 

yorch44

Established Member
What? 🤣We play nothing like City, show absolutely nothing that indicates a desire to play like City and yet you're confidently stating that Arteta is looking for archetypes(that aren't even close comparatively)to fit a style of play that there has not been a whiff of under his stewardship. Nobody has any idea what Arteta is actually trying to do in the midfield. Also, the notion that a box to box midfielder is somehow in conflict with positional play is patently ludicrous. Look at the positioning of players like Tomi and White when we get into the final third and then tell me that this manager cares at all about the principles of positional play in the first place or that a midfielder roaming from box to box is somehow more of an affront to the concept.
Positional play is overrated btw. In fact, when we put away some of that rigidity of the system we looked much more better.
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
What? 🤣We play nothing like City, show absolutely nothing that indicates a desire to play like City and yet you're confidently stating that Arteta is looking for archetypes(that aren't even close comparatively)to fit a style of play that there has not been a whiff of under his stewardship. Nobody has any idea what Arteta is actually trying to do in the midfield. Also, the notion that a box to box midfielder is somehow in conflict with positional play is patently ludicrous. Look at the positioning of players like Tomi and White when we get into the final third and then tell me that this manager cares at all about the principles of positional play in the first place or that a midfielder roaming from box to box is somehow more of an affront to the concept.
There are obviously some overlap with how we set up and City’s. Similar to them we have an inverted right back who doesn’t push ahead. Tomiyasu/Walker. The left back is the more adventurous one. Cancelo/Tierney/Mendy. The right winger is often isolated with the other team’s fullback and tasked to beat them 1v1. Saka/Mahrez. The left sided winger is more of a forward. Auba/Sterling now it’s more Martinelli/Jesus. Obviously City have more technical players so they can hold the ball much longer than we could hope for and Pep “strangles” teams better but to say we play nothing alike is not true. Pep is the single biggest influence on Arteta.

And when I talk about b2b midfielders, I am referring to the stereotypical all action midfielder who covers every blade of grass. Ala Ramsey. I’m not sure Arteta would allow such freedom for a midfielder demands his midfielders to be more selective with their movement. That’s my interpretation but I could be wrong. I think he prefers the sitting midfielders more with a wide range of passing.
 

ExtjExhtts

=Ex timo jens Ex Highbury two thousand six
There are obviously some overlap with how we set up and City’s. Similar to them we have an inverted right back who doesn’t push ahead. Tomiyasu/Walker. The left back is the more adventurous one. Cancelo/Tierney/Mendy. The right winger is often isolated with the other team’s fullback and tasked to beat them 1v1. Saka/Mahrez. The left sided winger is more of a forward. Auba/Sterling now it’s more Martinelli/Jesus. Obviously City have more technical players so they can hold the ball much longer than we could hope for and Pep “strangles” teams better but to say we play nothing alike is not true. Pep is the single biggest influence on Arteta.

And when I talk about b2b midfielders, I am referring to the stereotypical all action midfielder who covers every blade of grass. Ala Ramsey. I’m not sure Arteta would allow such freedom for a midfielder demands his midfielders to be more selective with their movement. That’s my interpretation but I could be wrong. I think he prefers the sitting midfielders more with a wide range of passing.

The single biggest influence on Arteta is Pulis.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes
What? 🤣We play nothing like City, show absolutely nothing that indicates a desire to play like City and yet you're confidently stating that Arteta is looking for archetypes(that aren't even close comparatively)to fit a style of play that there has not been a whiff of under his stewardship. Nobody has any idea what Arteta is actually trying to do in the midfield. Also, the notion that a box to box midfielder is somehow in conflict with positional play is patently ludicrous. Look at the positioning of players like Tomi and White when we get into the final third and then tell me that this manager cares at all about the principles of positional play in the first place or that a midfielder roaming from box to box is somehow more of an affront to the concept.
Uhhhh we don’t play as good as City, I’ll give you that. But clearly there are a lot of similarities. The gk that is good on the ball that can play ball under pressure (Ederson barely gets pressed anymore but Rammers does). The stay at home righback to protect for counters. The attacking midfielder that receives the ball on the sideline (Ödegaard for us, Bernardo and KDB for them), the false 9 striker who moves out of the box into midfield (Laca for us, Foden/Jesus for them. The left back that pushes up beyond the winger. Idk man City is basically a blueprint for what I’m seeing at Arsenal. Next up is a Xhaka replacement for a mobile hybrid midfielder like Gundogan (=tielemans).
 

yorch44

Established Member
Uhhhh we don’t play as good as City, I’ll give you that. But clearly there are a lot of similarities. The gk that is good on the ball that can play ball under pressure (Ederson barely gets pressed anymore but Rammers does). The stay at home righback to protect for counters. The attacking midfielder that receives the ball on the sideline (Ödegaard for us, Bernardo and KDB for them), the false 9 striker who moves out of the box into midfield (Laca for us, Foden/Jesus for them. The left back that pushes up beyond the winger. Idk man City is basically a blueprint for what I’m seeing at Arsenal. Next up is a Xhaka replacement for a mobile hybrid midfielder like Gundogan (=tielemans).
Not really, you are literally saying the same about a lot of modern teams. GK playing with feet is tendency, one FB attacking and the other defending is the oldest thing in football. We got Tierney doing that since he arrived. Even Emery with Kola did it.

Midfield is soooooo different, Peps prefer to use mid to build the plays... Arteta prefers to use FBs and wingers. Peps barely goes long balls, Arteta ask a lot for that.

Ødegaard is recently not going to wings exclusively and more free to move, like a classic 10, that's against 433 positional football.

So is not, you are only looking for what you want to see because Arteta was his assistant. And since we stopped using the rigidity of positional football we are playing better.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Forget the midfielder. Let's go 4 3 3 and buy Gnabry.

Martinelli------Vlahovic-----Gnabry

------------Ødegaard/ESR----Saka
-------------------------Partey
 

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