Youth Policy - 'Yes' or 'No'

[progman07]

experience

but we dont have to end the youth policy, we just have to blend it with more experience and bring the youth into the fold more slowly

that's all, really.

I'd also add, that we should put only those in, who can perform instantly. The players are for the team, not the team for the players. If there is only one youngster, who can do it, then don't put them into the squad.

 

[Kain]

The development of an enhanced youth system academy’s to educate players should never be a stick to beat teams with, yet the perception that Arsenal can’t buy any player because of this system doesn’t hold much weight & is wrong to my mind. Wengers made mistakes and is under heavy scrutiny now but implementing a modern youth academy, often referred to sarcastically as the Colney crèche by begrudged fans, was not one of them.

Having a top level youth system does not equate to success at top level however, many fans know more than I do on this subject yet teams like Southampton West Ham, Crystal Palace and bizarrely Manchester City have often been at the forefront with developing players in their youth. I just think it’s a sad day when we use this system as a stick to beat a team with, think about it hating on a club for trying to develop players and get the best out of their careers from an early age, just sounds ridiculous when it’s put that way.

One area that has concerned fans recently (at Arsenal) is our wage structure, if you’re a teenage millionaire where is the will to fight on and improve yourself when you’re already a success to your comparable age group outside of football?

 

[Minstrel Boy]

The youth policy is necessary to our long-term success. Just look at the current Barca model to see what benefits a solid youth policy can provide. It however has to be tempered with experience and it's the balance that Wenger has gotten wrong so far. Too often he has gambled irrationally on some youngsters 'blossoming' if given a first-team role based on their perceived potential (read Denilson).

 

[truth_hurts]

The youth policy is necessary to our long-term success. Just look at the current Barca model to see what benefits a solid youth policy can provide. It however has to be tempered with experience and it's the balance that Wenger has gotten wrong so far. Too often he has gambled irrationally on some youngsters 'blossoming' if given a first-team role based on their perceived potential (read Denilson).

I used to buy the experienced line but it not just enough to have experience you need to have experience of winning and a certain maturity. We have plenty of experienced players arguably only Chesney, Ramsey and Wilshere aren't experienced. What we don't have is many seasoned vets who can hold their nerve.

 

[sammy89]

once you throw experienced players into the mix, it no longer becomes a 'Youth Policy' but just the normal order of things. That's why I talk of throwing it out. Experienced players paving the way for younger ones is how most top clubs are run today

 

[Bossa]

I dont think its one or the other. Look at Barcelona, you can have a squad with great players from the youth(Xavi, Messi etc.) filled with big players that are signed from other clubs(Alves, Villa).

 

[sammy89]

Theirs is not exactly a youth policy, is it? It's a 'whoever is best plays' policy. They don't bend over backwards to accomodate inadequate youth

 

[spartandre217]

A great man once said, "you pay for experience with points." Time to end this youth policy once and for all.

Ending the youth policy is complete and utter madness. The transfer market and dependence on it in order to produce a functioning team groomed to play our way is nigh-on impossible in addition to it being an utterly TERRIBLE and unsustainable business model. If you truly want a complete and utter cessation of the youth policy then you are simply not a fan of Arsenal's future success and/or continuation as a force of English football.


Our issues regarding the youth policy were multiple.

1. We brought in a massive number of young players right before dismantling the invincibles. These players, while they may have gotten the chance to interact with and learn from the older players, did not get ENOUGH time to do so or become as hungry for success and/or professional as their counterparts.

2. The belief that if a player is young, they can continue to get better as evidenced by his persistence with Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner etc.

3. Refusing to offload players that have come through our academy or have been at the club for a long time, either in order to meet the homegrown squad quota or due to somewhat personal reasons.

4. The financial constraints that we were under somewhat necessitated buying younger, not so developed players for cheap as opposed to ready-made replacements when they were necessary.



A lot of people are of the opinion that Arsène plays younger players that don't deserve to be in the squad. I disagree!
In the past, such an observation would have been spot on, but the number of reserve and youth players we currently have on loan that are just about good enough to make the squad and do a job (Lansbury, Bartley, JET etc.), Wilshere's loan last season and the fact that we haven't played any particularly young players in the league or otherwise this season indicates to me that Wenger's hand was FORCED in the past.

Wenger's idea is not to sacrifice points for experience but to give precocious and deserving talents the opportunity to play regardless of experience

My two cents

 

[sammy89]

Maybe we have different interpretations. From Wenger's action over the years, I've been forced to think the Youth Policy meant that we were going to give youth priority, if all other things remained equal. That meant that if you had skilled, intelligent, older players and skilled, intelligent, younger players, then the younger players would be preferred when push came to shove(e.g during contract negotiations, identifying transfer targets, etc). This is what I believe has to stop. We have to go back to a time when youth wasn't THE determining factor in our decisions. We can consider youth, just the same way Barca, Man U and Bayern consider it, with regard to balancing out.

 

[ibby]

What youth policy? We've began taking the Carling Cup more seriously and our signings last summer were Chamakh, who was twenty-six at the time, Koscielny, twenty-four and Squillaci, thirty. So again, what youth policy?

As far as I see it, there is no youth policy, at least, not one different from most other teams.

Edit - and may I just add that only one teenager has featured regularly in our team this season and he is now donning the Young Player of the Year title.

 

[Ding Dong]

Maybe we have different interpretations. From Wenger's action over the years, I've been forced to think the Youth Policy meant that we were going to give youth priority, if all other things remained equal. That meant that if you had skilled, intelligent, older players and skilled, intelligent, younger players, then the younger players would be preferred when push came to shove(e.g during contract negotiations, identifying transfer targets, etc). This is what I believe has to stop. We have to go back to a time when youth wasn't THE determining factor in our decisions. We can consider youth, just the same way Barca, Man U and Bayern consider it, with regard to balancing out.

It's debatable if it ever was the priority you claim it was. You can pay a young player a much lower wage than a experienced senior player, so the primary motivation has probably more likely always been keeping the costs down. Rather than an obsession with youth over experience.

 

[ibby]

Given the obscene amounts we pay some of our 'young' players, I call bullshit on that.

 

[sammy89]

@Ding Dong, ever seen our wage bill? It's almost at par with Man U's. We've not been saving on wages, so my point stands against your objection

 

[spartandre217]

@Ding Dong, ever seen our wage bill? It's almost at par with Man U's. We've not been saving on wages, so my point stands against your objection

Lower wages, lower transfer spend = more money in the bank. We may not be getting QUITE as much value for money wages-wise but definitely more overall.

Take for example a player like Berbatov.

30 million in transfer fees and around 120k per week. Over the length of his 4-5 year contract we're dealing with 55-62 MILLION Pounds.


Now take the example of Robin who's been with us since 2004 (though certainly not at current wages).

2.5 million in transfer fees and around 90k per week. Amounting to about 35 Million pounds over 7 years of being at the club. Considering that his current contract was only negotiated a few years ago, I think it's safe to assume that he's cost us significantly less than that value since joining.

Consider that a significant number of Utd's current squad were likely signed for massive fees as well, it's fair to say that the adherence to a youth policy could have allowed us to save 50+ million over a period of say 3 seasons.

With that in mind, consider the rate at which we've paid off our debts and realize it would have been IMPOSSIBLE without such an adherence to "youth policy".

We all have our opinions, but some of us tend to keep ours a little more closely rooted to facts and less a skew on the truth.


NB. This says nothing towards the success of the aforementioned teams but only serves to provide justification for such an approach.

 

[karl]

Working with young players and showing some level of frugality is to be admired. The only problem here is that the whole team was young at the same time and grew up in the habit of losing. The last thing I want to see is the big buying of a whole team in a Chelsea style. Where would the achievement be in buying success? However, ignoring major problem areas to save money and then paying unproven players a fortune looks like false economy. I just wish players were paid more on incentives instead of outrageous weekly wages funded by expensive ticket prices.

 

[spartandre217]

Working with young players and showing some level of frugality is to be admired. The only problem here is that the whole team was young at the same time and grew up in the habit of losing. The last thing I want to see is the big buying of a whole team in a Chelsea style. Where would the achievement be in buying success? However, ignoring major problem areas to save money and then paying unproven players a fortune looks like false economy. I just wish players were paid more on incentives instead of outrageous weekly wages funded by expensive ticket prices.

It was a necessary evil at the time, though I doubt that it's even remotely the case anymore. We're not seeing older players pushed out for inexperienced nobody's. At least we didnt last summer or the one before and I can't imagine us doing so this summer either

 

[qs]

Given the obscene amounts we pay some of our 'young' players, I call bullshit on that.

Are they not young then? I don't get your use of inverted commas here. :?

 

[eye4goal]

Our youth policy has served its purpose in terms of finishing in the top 4 in England. I would argue it has served its course now too. We are essentially a selling club. Just like Porto and Ajax. They also sign unknown youngsters, develop them and sell them for massive fees.

 

[amirkat]

there are no problem with youth policy (we made the stars not buy them) i know they made some mistakes but they will learn and they will be better next season wilshere sczcesny ramsey lansbury and ryo all they will shine next season so there are no problem but we must have old players in our squad not all the players are between 20-25 age they are all young we want old players they have Experience they can make some lessons to our young players teach them i love our squad like experiences and youngs but the problem is Arsène policy he dont keep player his age above 30 because wenger think the players above 30 they cant play more but this is wrong they can play they can do more

Nicely put, Yousif. I agree with everything you say.

It seems some enjoy the youth policy Wenger has set up, but are not willing to accept the consequences (good or bad) that comes with it. I think the youth policy is one of the best aspects of this club, and puts us at a unique advantage with signing some of the best youngsters in the world.

Off-topic a bit, but what's really exciting is the scouting network we have set up across the world, too. I believe it's only been financial constraits and visa problems that have kept us from reaching the very best youngsters, ie. Kaka, Ronaldo, Messi etc. So we're already one step ahead of other clubs, but just external reasons have kept it from happening. Another reason to be thankful for Wenger being at Arsenal.( :wink: )

 

[Anzac]

IMO the youth policy & academy have yet to beging to payback the investment of time & priority made in them. As for the scouting network I again fail to see the outstanding results other than those from The Highbury Years.