Life After Emery Begins

[Predicates]

Ancelotti is over-rated in my opinion. He won just one Serie A in eight years with an absolutely stacked AC Milan side, which under a different coach like Guardiola or Klopp would have steamrolled the Serie A every year without difficulty.

It's also worth mentioning that he was sacked by Bayern for effectively losing the dressing room, and is about to be sacked by Napoli for the same reason. If these players walked all over Emery, they'd probably do the same under Carlo.

 

[Toby]

He got decent players, but they weren't the kind of profiles needed to make an immediat impact into this team.

I'm just going to cut you short here: Thing is he identified issues and tried to work on them.

And then there's your stance on Sokratis/Saliba: You say Sokratis wasn't what was needed but a guy who could play it out from the back, e.g. Boateng or Hummels or someone, then with Saliba you go on to say Arsenal needed a powerful CB by which I guess you mean a physically strong ballwinner. That's two opinions against one another, tbh. Sokratis is a failure because he is an older version of Saliba signed 1.5 years prior...come on.

Also Ceballos doesn't take any part in Mislintat's thinking in signing Torreira cause the Ceballos guy came well after Sven was gone. Same kind of goes for Willock who only cme through kind of this summer and might not have been ready last summer.

You're conflating a lot of stuff here, even just time wise.

And going back to the sentence I qutoted, sometimes it's not the best to go for what you actually need right now, but something that can be what you need in the future. E.g. Sokratis makes absolute sense to me, but Mkhi didn't after a while. Both Sven signings. But it's far more questionable with Raul signings, tbh. E.g. Sven should have signed someone like Saliba instead of Sok, and Raul someone like Sok instead of Saliba in their given situations.

 

[Ceballinhos]

Imagine fancying Carlo in a league with 4/5 better managers and better budgets than him? We’ll finish 6th.

And yet he's beaten most of them.
I mean we're not competing with city and Liverpool in the short term anyway.

Anybody who thinks Rodgers and Lampard are better coaches than Carlo are absolutely out of their mind.

We're talking about a coach who's won pretty much everything there is to win. A guy who's trained in the 5 major leagues. He has PL experience and won it. He's worked with some of the best players of his generation.

And yet there are people thinking it would be mediocrity to take him?

 

[Joestlaachmkr]

Imagine fancying Carlo in a league with 4/5 better managers and better budgets than him? We’ll finish 6th.

Curious to know who these 5-6 managers in the PL which are better than what Ancelotti is are? apart from Guardiola, Klopp and maybe Mourinho, Rodgers the level of the managers in PL is pretty averrage.

 

[GDeep™]

Curious to know who these 5-6 managers in the PL which are better than what Ancelotti is are? apart from Guardiola, Klopp and maybe Mourinho, Rodgers the level of the managers in PL is pretty averrage.

Combination of managers and budgets. Lampard will spend, and I doubt ole will be in charge at Utd in the summer.

 

[Rex Stone]

Combination of managers and budgets. Lampard will spend, and I doubt ole will be in charge at Utd in the summer.

Carlo, Marcelino or Nuno? Which one of those you taking?

 

[GDeep™]

Carlo, Marcelino or Nuno? Which one of those you taking?

Will have to go with Carlo , less question marks around him.

 

[Ceballinhos]

I'm just going to cut you short here: Thing is he identified issues and tried to work on them.

And then there's your stance on Sokratis/Saliba: You say Sokratis wasn't what was needed but a guy who could play it out from the back, e.g. Boateng or Hummels or someone, then with Saliba you go on to say Arsenal needed a powerful CB by which I guess you mean a physically strong ballwinner. That's two opinions against one another, tbh. Sokratis is a failure because he is an older version of Saliba signed 1.5 years prior...come on.

Also Ceballos doesn't take any part in Mislintat's thinking in signing Torreira cause the Ceballos guy came well after Sven was gone. Same kind of goes for Willock who only cme through kind of this summer and might not have been ready last summer.

You're conflating a lot of stuff here, even just time wise.

And going back to the sentence I qutoted, sometimes it's not the best to go for what you actually need right now, but something that can be what you need in the future. E.g. Sokratis makes absolute sense to me, but Mkhi didn't after a while. Both Sven signings. But it's far more questionable with Raul signings, tbh. E.g. Sven should have signed someone like Saliba instead of Sok, and Raul someone like Sok instead of Saliba in their given situations.

Nope you're wrong on saliba mate. He's a much better player with the ball in his feet and has a higher upside than our Greek player it's not even close + has an insane frame for a CB that sokratis doesn't have.

Saliba is listed at the same size as Van Djik, and he's very mobile too. They have approximately the same body types and I think it will translate very well into the PL.
Van Djik is an absolute freak. That's also why he's so good.

And we've lacked this kind of physical presence at the back.

I'm not saying he will turn out to be that good, but saliba on paper has everything he needs to be a dominant player in the PL and ticks so many boxes. He also brings things we badly need at the back => physical presence, good technique, more composure.

Also saliba is already much more composed in his game. He doesn't take as many risks as sokratis, who's more a high risk/high reward ratio type of defender.


And yes sorry I made the confusion, but my point still stands. Elneny and Ramsey were not that much different either. We're still badly in need of more athletic presence in MF.

 

[Joestlaachmkr]

Combination of managers and budgets. Lampard will spend, and I doubt ole will be in charge at Utd in the summer.

Hmm.. I certainly dont consider Lampard to be a top class manager in the same way as either Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho or Rodgers, i would also rate Nuno as a better manager than Lamp is. Lampard are on a roll with Chelsea right now, but that won`t last forever. Man Utd has been surprisingly patient with their Ole Gollum and it wouldn`t surprise me if they decides to keep him on for next season. However, i would rate Ancleotti above both Rodgers and Nuno and he has already proved he can beat both Pep and Klopp.

 

[14Henry]

After listening to Emery for the last year and a half and listening to Freddie the last few days it is paramount we hire an English speaking coach.

Emery did his best to learn the language but it just wasnt good enough. You wonder why these top coaches knowing over the last 10 years England is where the money is as well as the glamour haven't been studying English before.

Sounds arrogant but it should be something that any top manager with ambitions in football would do. Isn't always easy combining managing with language learning but I dont want another manager who cant connect with fans.

It's so refreshing hearing Freddie talk sense and answer the questions in a proper way. The next manager has to have a high level of English or forget about it.

 

[BaZZe]

Do people honestly think any manager would want to come here if appointed for only half a season? Freddie will stay until summer if the club wants to wait until then to appoint someone else long term.

 

[BaZZe]

After listening to Emery for the last year and a half and listening to Freddie the last few days it is paramount we hire an English speaking coach.

Emery did his best to learn the language but it just wasnt good enough. You wonder why these top coaches knowing over the last 10 years England is where the money is as well as the glamour haven't been studying English before.

Sounds arrogant but it should be something that any top manager with ambitions in football would do. Isn't always easy combining managing with language learning but I dont want another manager who cant connect with fans.

It's so refreshing hearing Freddie talk sense and answer the questions in a proper way. The next manager has to have a high level of English or forget about it.

That rules out Allegri then

 

[#254]

And yet he's beaten most of them.
I mean we're not competing with city and Liverpool in the short term anyway.

Anybody who thinks Rodgers and Lampard are better coaches than Carlo are absolutely out of their mind.

We're talking about a coach who's won pretty much everything there is to win. A guy who's trained in the 5 major leagues. He has PL experience and won it. He's worked with some of the best players of his generation.

And yet there are people thinking it would be mediocrity to take him?

He's got a habit of overplaying a first eleven he has identified and usually, it goes tits up after fatigue and injuries set in. I am not sure that would bode well with the Sakas and ESRs who need cameos here and there and also the club which wants these players to be used sparingly for their development.

I believe a good number of us here agree that the youths we have now are a golden age that rarely come through as they have. I feel we must take advantage of that young talent if we are ever to meet our objective of getting back to be a top club. We need a Manager that can find a balance with the seniors and also deploy the youths that deserve opportunities.
Right now we can't challenge for the league in a few years so why not build a group of players who can in a few years time?

My first choice would definitely be Ten Haag who'd get us playing a proper exiting brand once again and develop the team for the future. We need a coach that can come in and get our older players firing so hard to raise their stock and sell them at proper prises to fund our future proper team. We basically need to do a Liverpool.

 

[Ceballinhos]

Hmm.. I certainly dont consider Lampard to be a top class manager in the same way as either Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho or Rodgers, i would also rate Nuno as a better manager than Lamp is. Lampard are on a roll with Chelsea right now, but that won`t last forever. Man Utd has been surprisingly patient with their Ole Gollum and it wouldn`t surprise me if they decides to keep him on for next season. However, i would rate Ancleotti above both Rodgers and Nuno and he has already proved he can beat both Pep and Klopp.

And it's not even close.
Rodgers is doing a good job right now but Ancelotti has been an immensely successful manager. They're not in the same class at all. He's won things in every league he's been to.

And Lampard, come on. We only have a 5 months sample size of him in the PL and there are seriously people thinking he's already better than a 3 time CL winning coach? A guy who's break the goal scoring record in the PL with his Chelsea team?

Come on. Let's be serious.

 

[Tumblin'Dice]

Ancelotti has been an immensely successful manager. They're not in the same class at all. He's won things in every league he's been to.

Only when he has BY FAR the best team in the league, and even then only sometimes.

But no one can question his cup success, just to be fair

 

[Ceballinhos]

Only when he has BY FAR the best team in the league, and even then only sometimes.

But no one can question his cup success, just to be fair

Because klopp and pep don't have by far the best teams in the league?
Come on. There isn't one single of our player who would start in their team. Even auba isn't a guaranteed starter.

 

[Joestlaachmkr]

That rules out Allegri then

I came over this interview with Allegri on youtube this is from 2018, and he has taken classes to learn English properly since then. Max Allegro speaking English. - YouTube
But if the reports that Allegri turned down the chance to take over Arsenal are true, then i hope the board never make contact with Allegri again.

 

[14Henry]

He's got a habit of overplaying a first eleven he has identified and usually, it goes tits up after fatigue and injuries set in. I am not sure that would bode well with the Sakas and ESRs who need cameos here and there and also the club which wants these players to be used sparingly for their development.

I believe a good number of us here agree that the youths we have now are a golden age that rarely come through as they have. I feel we must take advantage of that young talent if we are ever to meet our objective of getting back to be a top club. We need a Manager that can find a balance with the seniors and also deploy the youths that deserve opportunities.
Right now we can't challenge for the league in a few years so why not build a group of players who can in a few years time?

My first choice would definitely be Ten Haag who'd get us playing a proper exiting brand once again and develop the team for the future. We need a coach that can come in and get our older players firing so hard to raise their stock and sell them at proper prises to fund our future proper team. We basically need to do a Liverpool.

Our biggest opportunity could be rather than integrating the youth into the team,but instead building the team with the youth and integrating older players.

Now this cant happen now but in the next 2-3 years there should be a clear phasing of youth filling the starting 11.

Özil step aside for the likes of an ESR, Auba out for Martinelli, Saliba in for the likes of Luiz.

We need a team of top talent but loyal talent. The type that doesnt jump ship at the first sign of trouble. Rashford is an example. Hes die hard United. I think even if they won nothing for the next 5 years he may still be there because his dream was United.

We have so many journey men here to pick up a few quid and then scarper.

The one big question with this is how many of these players are going to be top drawer. At the moment it's very hard to say with any conviction who will definately make it.

Martinelli looks good but so did Carlos Vela.

Has Nelson or Saka looked any better than a young Walcott or Chamberlain. Not really.

Leno
Bellerin
Saliba
Anybody's guess
Tierney
Willock
Guendouzi
Animal DCM
Nelson/Saka/ESR
Martinelli
Pepe

If you had that kind of team providing the young players develop and we replace Bellerin who I think is average and get a good CB around 25 and DCM similar age it could be our time to shine as City and Liverpools main players start to get on.

 

[Tumblin'Dice]

Because klopp and pep don't have by far the best teams in the league?
Come on. There isn't one single of our player who would start in their team. Even auba isn't a guaranteed starter.

Why Thank you.

That's the point.

If Ancelotti were to inherit this Liverpool team right now, he might win the league, MAYBE, would definitely have a decent cup run though.

But he'll never get our average squad anywhere close to that level. Seasoned front runner nothing more, nothing less.That's been the story of his entire career.

 

[#254]

Our biggest opportunity could be rather than integrating the youth into the team,but instead building the team with the youth and integrating older players.

Now this cant happen now but in the next 2-3 years there should be a clear phasing of youth filling the starting 11.

Özil step aside for the likes of an ESR, Auba out for Martinelli, Saliba in for the likes of Luiz.

We need a team of top talent but loyal talent. The type that doesnt jump ship at the first sign of trouble. Rashford is an example. Hes die hard United. I think even if they won nothing for the next 5 years he may still be there because his dream was United.

We have so many journey men here to pick up a few quid and then scarper.

The one big question with this is how many of these players are going to be top drawer. At the moment it's very hard to say with any conviction who will definately make it.

Martinelli looks good but so did Carlos Vela.

Has Nelson or Saka looked any better than a young Walcott or Chamberlain. Not really.

Leno
Bellerin
Saliba
Anybody's guess
Tierney
Willock
Guendouzi
Animal DCM
Nelson/Saka/ESR
Martinelli
Pepe

If you had that kind of team providing the young players develop and we replace Bellerin who I think is average and get a good CB around 25 and DCM similar age it could be our time to shine as City and Liverpools main players start to get on.

I agree with most of this and I really hope we don't have those journeymen. I think however that Theo was good at that age because he didn't have the pressure to perform that these guys are in same applies for Vela although I think Vela had the more raw talent that was visible than Theo who just had speed and good finishing going on for him. That crop also had a top-level manager and top-level teammates that assisted them in reaching their goals. The same cannot be said of our current crop which has possibly only three players whom anyone can want to learn from.

Regarding the players that will most probably cut it, I feel most of that group you've mentioned should easily be more than decent players. I will stick my neck out for Martinelli and Saliba who always have the best player body language that shows in players who would most certainly be future greats. (Watch the two leave the itch after the game even after a draw and you'll notice that they rarely drop their heads as if to mean that they believe they gave all they had which normally they do).

If these players get a proper coach who will develop them and make them better we could be staring at a PL beater in the next few years. The decision to appoint this kind of is extremely paramount to our future success and imo should be among the factors we consider most in appointing the new man. This is the reason why I think it is a no brainer to go for Ten Haag. Having said that, if Ljungberg shows good promise, I'd consider giving him a short extension period. I'd like one of our own to cut it at management with us because they'll be passionate about the team.