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Mikel Arteta: Fighting Until The End

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
In fairness, he's also got two very experienced coaches there in Albert Stuivenberg and Steve Round. In fact, I find Steve Round's inclusion to be the most interesting as he's been a coach at teams that have been usually pretty strong defensively. It's also made me question the kind of midfield that Arteta actually wants - I think especially with the hunt for Partey, we could see a very physical midfield as well as technical in the future. Vastly different from our current profile. The stumbling block is how he gets there. We have a few guys within but aren't quite ready yet.
I see your point in that but tbf we do also need experienced heads in coaching roles, we can't just have 100% pure new inexperienced coaches so I'm not surprised he's still brought in experienced people aswell. Same goes for the squad, we can't just have pure young players between the ages 18-22/ academy players hence why he's probably looking at Partey to come in and not another young CM.
 
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truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Honestly, given how lopsided this squad is, I don't really have a problem with this. Outside of the youngsters, who are we gonna miss apart from Aubameyang and possibly Leno?

I'm all for trimming the fat from the squad, but we need willing buyers! I'd hate to miss out on say Partey because we haven't got the funds until we can finalise the sales of the likes of Mkhi, El Nenny and Mustafi.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
The reason Arteta is reluctant to play an Auba-Marty-Pepe attack is because that attack is not creative enough. When you combine that to our uncreative midfield you get a very dysfunctional team. If we can replace Özil with a quality AM then the above combination can work out.

I don't mind if that is our starting attack next season as long as we have a quality attacking midfielder behind them
I don't see Laca being any more creative tbh. In fact, other than his physical strength and hold up play, I don't see much of his impact in games. Forwards are about goals and assists. I think that forward line definitely scores more than the current one.

You make a fair point about the midfield though. It's got to improve massively.
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Player:Saliba
I don't see Laca being any more creative tbh. In fact, other than his physical strength and hold up play, I don't see much of his impact in games. Forwards are about goals and assists. I think that forward line definitely scores more than the current one.

You make a fair point about the midfield though. It's got to improve massively.
I know he's dropped off this season.

But last season he was out most creative player last season
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
I don't see Laca being any more creative tbh. In fact, other than his physical strength and hold up play, I don't see much of his impact in games. Forwards are about goals and assists. I think that forward line definitely scores more than the current one.

You make a fair point about the midfield though. It's got to improve massively.

Arteta wants a Welbeck to be a center forward, he will never play someone like Auba or Martinell as our center forward cause they are not capable to leading our press. If they play as a center forward they'll have to do the stuff that Laca has been doing under Arteta and you should not expect their performance to be any better than Laca's.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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Arteta wants a Welbeck to be a center forward, he will never play someone like Auba or Martinell as our center forward cause they are not capable to leading our press. If they play as a center forward they'll have to do the stuff that Laca has been doing under Arteta and you should not expect their performance to be any better than Laca's.
Martinelli has the most ball recoveries p90 of any of our forwards so leading the press is not one of his problems. I'd argue that Nketiah is a better example of leading a press also, as his pressing is very good. I think you mean his possession game, which obviously Laca is the main choice in that regard, Martinelli and Auba aren't necessarily technical wizards, although I think Martinelli is underrated in that regard. Nketiah's possession game is relatively underrated also.

I will say, I don't think it's wise to assume exactly what it is that Arteta wants, rather we can only speculate - as this is just what he's had to do with the squad he's inherited. We'll only get more of an idea once football has resumed and he, along with Edu, have at least reshaped the squad a small amount. For now, we can assume this is his best way of making do with what he has.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
I know he's dropped off this season.

But last season he was out most creative player last season
Yeah, he was. I was his first defender in here when most were having a go at him. However, just like in any other job, a terrible performance in the current year can't be cushioned by a good one in the years gone by. Alex is doing worse numbers than Giroud was doing and we all know how his predecessor was labelled and abused.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
Arteta wants a Welbeck to be a center forward, he will never play someone like Auba or Martinell as our center forward cause they are not capable to leading our press. If they play as a center forward they'll have to do the stuff that Laca has been doing under Arteta and you should not expect their performance to be any better than Laca's.
I quite agree with @MutableEarth's view on this. Martinelli does most things that are expected of a striker and since he is young there is a lot of room for learning and improving. Plus he is the future. Laca, on the other hand, certainly looks like the type of players that reach their prime quite early then regress when they are supposed to be in their prime same as Özil. If we are smart, we should sell right away when he still has got an over 25m potential market value or get less than that or non at all in subsequent windows.
 

Macho

DJ Machodemiks
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No need to turn this into another Lacazette bashing thread, it’s well established he’s the worst thing to ever happen to Arsenal and we get it, I even muted his thread cause certain posters were going OTT with their criticising daily. This is the Arteta thread.

I more raised Arteta’s reluctance to play Auba centrally that’s all. I am well aware of the stats and articles stating why he’s good on the left...but he’s not a winger.

Knowing we have players who can play wide it just makes Arteta look a bit rigid to me. Aubas golden boot last season, his stature in the team, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s stuck there.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
No need to turn this into another Lacazette bashing thread, it’s well established he’s the worst thing to ever happen to Arsenal and we get it, I even muted his thread cause certain posters were going OTT with their criticising daily. This is the Arteta thread.

I more raised Arteta’s reluctance to play Auba centrally that’s all. I am well aware of the stats and articles stating why he’s good on the left...but he’s not a winger.

Knowing we have players who can play wide it just makes Arteta look a bit rigid to me. Aubas golden boot last season, his stature in the team, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s stuck there.

What is a winger? The modern day winger either is a playmaking one who can act as an attacking mid, or someone who scores the most goals in the team. Auba plays on the left because we need him there to score goals, if he plays centrally he will need to do roles that take away his goal scoring.
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
No need to turn this into another Lacazette bashing thread, it’s well established he’s the worst thing to ever happen to Arsenal and we get it, I even muted his thread cause certain posters were going OTT with their criticising daily. This is the Arteta thread.

I more raised Arteta’s reluctance to play Auba centrally that’s all. I am well aware of the stats and articles stating why he’s good on the left...but he’s not a winger.

Knowing we have players who can play wide it just makes Arteta look a bit rigid to me. Aubas golden boot last season, his stature in the team, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s stuck there.

Anytime Lacazette is mentioned you get really emotional :lol:
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
No need to turn this into another Lacazette bashing thread, it’s well established he’s the worst thing to ever happen to Arsenal and we get it, I even muted his thread cause certain posters were going OTT with their criticising daily. This is the Arteta thread.

I more raised Arteta’s reluctance to play Auba centrally that’s all. I am well aware of the stats and articles stating why he’s good on the left...but he’s not a winger.

Knowing we have players who can play wide it just makes Arteta look a bit rigid to me. Aubas golden boot last season, his stature in the team, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s stuck there.
Lacazette is being mentioned within the context of Arteta's tactics
 

Macho

DJ Machodemiks
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
Anytime Lacazette is mentioned you get really emotional :lol:
Nah, same thing happens with Özil and even though I think he’s a waste of space - even thats been done to death I muted that thread too.

This Lacazette stuff is nothing, you should have seen how SOME of the white boys used to get at Ade way back when it was slightly less politically correct - that was genuinely hard to read at times. Not saying that’s what’s happening with Laca btw.
 
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MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
No need to turn this into another Lacazette bashing thread, it’s well established he’s the worst thing to ever happen to Arsenal and we get it, I even muted his thread cause certain posters were going OTT with their criticising daily. This is the Arteta thread.

I more raised Arteta’s reluctance to play Auba centrally that’s all. I am well aware of the stats and articles stating why he’s good on the left...but he’s not a winger.

Knowing we have players who can play wide it just makes Arteta look a bit rigid to me. Aubas golden boot last season, his stature in the team, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s stuck there.
It's the technical balance of the team. If Tierney had been fit, maybe Saka would have played with Auba CF and Pepe RW. Nelson LW is another decent shout but he's had his injuries (and detractors) too. The problem isn't with Auba playing CF as a concept, but the sh*tty lopsided midfield (could extend lopsidedness to the whole XI) that isn't able to accommodate playing him there. Play him there and you create another pothole in the team. Martinelli - as stated - is more like Auba, so having two of them sacrifices some level of possession and control because we don't have the right midfielders to complement them.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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It's the technical balance of the team. If Tierney had been fit, maybe Saka would have played with Auba CF and Pepe RW. Nelson LW is another decent shout but he's had his injuries (and detractors) too. The problem isn't with Auba playing CF as a concept, but the sh*tty lopsided midfield (could extend lopsidedness to the whole XI) that isn't able to accommodate playing him there. Play him there and you create another pothole in the team. Martinelli - as stated - is more like Auba, so having two of them sacrifices some level of possession and control because we don't have the right midfielders to complement them.
Do you think Arteta will try to change the set up to get more out of Pepe? It feels like our left hand side is highly concentrated while Pepe is left quite isolated on the right hand side. He doesnt get a properly overlapping RB. I also noticed when watching in the stands (more noticeable that way) that we just give Pepe the ball and expect him to do stuff with it, the CAM doesnt roam enough to the right. Bellerin doesnt come to support. So it always ends up being Pepe by himself vs 2-3 players (PL instantly realised his 1on1 threat after his debut at Anfield).

We paid a lot of money for this guy and right now it looks like hes being used as a sidepiece. We need to reformat our team so that he recieves the ball with more support or in more space/ vs out of position defenders.

If we continued to play 4231 then I'd say we need a CAM who is more effervescent and energetic, someone who can buzz from flank to flank and support our wingers. Another issue of course is Auba doesnt provide proper width, so while the Saka overlaps can create that we dont have 2 attackers who can take players on regularly, just 1. Ziyech/Grealish could have helped a lot with these kind of things; either playing CAM or LW and giving our attacking line more technical ability. To drag players toward them our pick the right pass.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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Do you think Arteta will try to change the set up to get more out of Pepe? It feels like our left hand side is highly concentrated while Pepe is left quite isolated on the right hand side. He doesnt get a properly overlapping RB. I also noticed when watching in the stands (more noticeable that way) that we just give Pepe the ball and expect him to do stuff with it, the CAM doesnt roam enough to the right. Bellerin doesnt come to support. So it always ends up being Pepe by himself vs 2-3 players (PL instantly realised his 1on1 threat after his debut at Anfield).

We paid a lot of money for this guy and right now it looks like hes being used as a sidepiece. We need to reformat our team so that he recieves the ball with more support or in more space/ vs out of position defenders.

If we continued to play 4231 then I'd say we need a CAM who is more effervescent and energetic, someone who can buzz from flank to flank and support our wingers. Another issue of course is Auba doesnt provide proper width, so while the Saka overlaps can create that we dont have 2 attackers who can take players on regularly, just 1. Ziyech/Grealish could have helped a lot with these kind of things; either playing CAM or LW and giving our attacking line more technical ability. To drag players toward them our pick the right pass.
Interesting point about Pepe - I actually disagree with a small part of your point in that I think part of his problem is not just being isolated but that Özil has been getting in his way a little bit and occupying similar spaces as him at crucial times in moves. I agree on the point of Bellerin though - he hasn't really been himself since returning and AMN's tweaked role meant he was overlapping as much. So Pepe's definitely struggled to fit himself into the team as well as we would like.

Everything else I agree on though. Özil has worked his ass off of late and really hasn't been bad. Main issue is the lack of end product and I think he just doesn't have that killer instinct that we need in that position at the moment. I think we have the youngsters there who can step up, but we do need an extra bit of substance. I like Benrahma perosnally.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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Interesting point about Pepe - I actually disagree with a small part of your point in that I think part of his problem is not just being isolated but that Özil has been getting in his way a little bit and occupying similar spaces as him at crucial times in moves. I agree on the point of Bellerin though - he hasn't really been himself since returning and AMN's tweaked role meant he was overlapping as much. So Pepe's definitely struggled to fit himself into the team as well as we would like.

Everything else I agree on though. Özil has worked his ass off of late and really hasn't been bad. Main issue is the lack of end product and I think he just doesn't have that killer instinct that we need in that position at the moment. I think we have the youngsters there who can step up, but we do need an extra bit of substance. I like Benrahma perosnally.
I just think that Pepe isnt getting the ball in the right positions, it feels like the opposing defence is so settled when he has the ball at his feet. He undoubtedly poses a massive threat when 1on1 with a defender so if you can create overloads and some confusion/panic in the defence you can drag some players out of position or isolate them. Right now Pepe gets the ball and he has a lot to do to get anywhere.

I agree about Özil, he has improved. But his numbers are poor. He is helping with the triangles and build up play but he doesnt have that cutting edge as much as he used to. That killer flick/delivery that no one saw, or clever runs into the box.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
What’s going to happen with Smith Rowe and Guendouzi next season? Both are ready to play week in week out on loan, Douzi in France or Germany and Rowe in the championship or even PL if the right club is found.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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I just think that Pepe isnt getting the ball in the right positions, it feels like the opposing defence is so settled when he has the ball at his feet. He undoubtedly poses a massive threat when 1on1 with a defender so if you can create overloads and some confusion/panic in the defence you can drag some players out of position or isolate them. Right now Pepe gets the ball and he has a lot to do to get anywhere.

I agree about Özil, he has improved. But his numbers are poor. He is helping with the triangles and build up play but he doesnt have that cutting edge as much as he used to. That killer flick/delivery that no one saw, or clever runs into the box.
Pepe is just an awkward fit at the moment, as are most of the players. They don't actually have a lot of chemistry and this is one of the reasons why it's been hard to get the best strengths out of a lot of the players. Thank God Aubameyang has been scoring like a mad man for 2 years.

What’s going to happen with Smith Rowe and Guendouzi next season? Both are ready to play week in week out on loan, Douzi in France or Germany and Rowe in the championship or even PL if the right club is found.
Guendouzi will get more than enough games here, while Smith-Rowe will most likely go back out on loan - maybe back to Huddersfield Town.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
Well, Emery wanted Zaha in the summer. Identified the likes of Nzonzi, Banega and Partey also for the midfield.

Emery didn't have Özil on his side and Arteta does, big difference.

I feel for Arteta as he probably won't be able to spend without selling.
There is nothing to feel for the man when he's got the likes of Elneny, Mikhi, Xhaka, Torreira, Mustafi, Sokratis, Laca etc on the rooster. A fire sale is actually in his best interest.
 

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