Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Rasmi]

In my opinion a decent percentage of the fanbase thought that Wenger was old, stale and holding the club back in his latter years, that was the narrative I saw anyway.

When Emery came in and didn't transform us back to what we were within 18 months the same fans turned on him too. If Emery wasn't an awful manager it would go against the narrative that they'd built up for years that Wenger was the one holding the club back from success.

I think since Emery's departure there's been a dawning realisation within a lot of the fanbase that there are serious issues with our squad / the way the club is ran and many Arsenal fans have given Arteta a bit more leeway. It probably helps that he's quite a well liked ex-player too.

Emery was the sacrificial lamb for us to realise some harsh truths

I've been saying the entire time that our attack needs to get better, and I expect it will. But he can only do so much with the squad he has in that area. I've wanted investment in attack going back to Wenger, particularly on the wings. I just don't think he has the players in that area that he wants for his system which is why it's been easier to fix from the back first. I think he's been smart in fixing the foundation with the limited finances he's been given and the contract situation he inherited.

And I don't think he's making a contract mess, barring the Willian contract. You can see why they wanted Willian though (close control on the ball, had the reputation of putting in a shift when at Chelsea; even Chelsea fans are bemused by his form under us) and only in hindsight can it be criticized at the level it is as a bad deal. With that being said, I'm not a fan of Willian.

This charge of agent links can be said with Sanllehi, not so much with Edu even though the latter's agent is Kia. Sanllehi is now gone. All the signings fans complain about as far as "agent links" were done under Sanllehi, including Mari and Pepe (who don't have Kia as their agent). But I don't think all these were bad signings in the long run, especially when you view their roles in the squad. I think Mari, Cedric, and Luiz have all performed fine. And if I were you, I'd expect another season of Luiz to save money for other areas of investment.


What the **** are you talking about? Of course the midfielders come deep for the ball, because we build from the back. I'm talking about the general nature of the passing. Elneny doesn't like playing passes in tight spaces, nor forward, only sideways or backwards. From my reading for why he played yesterday though is because he doesn't give the ball away like Ceballos does on the regular and that's dangerous against a team like City.

build from the back? El nenny was as deep as the CBs.. This means you have your 2 cbs and 1 central midfielder and infront of them is all the opposition player. This makes it harder for the midfielder who dropped deeper to find a good option to pass to as infront of him is the attackers and midfielders of the other team and the only midfielder ahead of him is Xhaka. El nenny is not great passer, but the tactics makes it even harder for him and forces him to play nearest player.

If you want to build from the back, then you need to have CB stepping up with the ball and making the passes. This frees your midfield and thats the great benefit of playing from the back. But to have a CM drop to CB position and start the build up from there is really bad tactics and makes it hard to build from the back

 

[Rex Stone]

https://understat.com/league/EPL/2018

7th, behind Wolves.

That's currently where xG has us now (though complicated by Everton having less fixtures). Let's see where we finish at the end of the season.

Why don’t you use xPoints for 18/19 and then this year?

We were 7th then and 9th now and Leeds and Sp*rs have played less games so it could conceivably get even worse.

If anything we’ve been lucky with the goals conceded as well.

 

[dashsnow17]

And you know you could take the most positive view possible, and that's fine, but even taking the most positive view possible and giving him time etc etc, there are some really weird things going on under Arteta.

The substitutions are not good. Why is it every time we kick-off from the centre circle the ball goes to Holding and he kicks it long to the opposition? Why are our attacking set-pieces so consistently bad? Why has Willian's form been so bad, why has he been playing him out of position? Why was Saliba in the u-23's for half a season? Why did it take so long to bring ESR in? Why is Martinelli hardly playing? Why do we still concede so close to half-time regularly? Why do we never score in the last 15 mins?

Arteta isn't getting the sack any time soon, i can't be arsed to argue that he should, so fine take the super positive view, it's only Arsenal, the one thing we all love and cherish, f*ck it, let it stagnate, cool, but why all these basic errors?

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Why don’t you use xPoints for 18/19 and then this year?

We were 7th then and 9th now and Leeds and Sp*rs have played less games so it could conceivably get even worse.

If anything we’ve been lucky with the goals conceded as well.

We're 7th...

It's practically impossible that Sp**s or Leeds make up more than a 3 pt difference from us in xGvXGA in one game. I didn't realise Everton has played only 1 game less than us (thought it was 2), and it's even more impossible they make up almost a 6 pt difference in one game.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

build from the back? El nenny was as deep as the CBs.. This means you have your 2 cbs and 1 central midfielder and infront of them is all the opposition player. This makes it harder for the midfielder who dropped deeper to find a good option to pass to as infront of him is the attackers and midfielders of the other team and the only midfielder ahead of him is Xhaka. El nenny is not great passer, but the tactics makes it even harder for him and forces him to play nearest player.

If you want to build from the back, then you need to have CB stepping up with the ball and making the passes. This frees your midfield and thats the great benefit of playing from the back. But to have a CM drop to CB position and start the build up from there is really bad tactics and makes it hard to build from the back

I think we should just punt it down field every time Stoke or Burnley style when playing against the best team in Europe, as opposed to trying.

 

[Rex Stone]

We're 7th...

It's practically impossible that Sp**s or Leeds make up more than a 3 pt difference from us in xGvXGA in one game. I didn't realise Everton has played only 1 game less than us (thought it was 2), and it's even more impossible they make up almost a 6 pt difference in one game.

Bruh I’m literally looking at it right now. It says we’re 9th on xP

 

[GunnerShy]

Games like last night really lay bare the paucity of this squad.

The technical ability of players that were supposedly recruited to join Arsenal and play possession football who cannot retain possession under pressure and who cannot make short or medium range progressive passes under pressure.

Partey helps in this regard, but really, it's another 2-3 midfielders, another 2 forwards and Saliba and maybe another one across the back four before we can hope to retain some possession and do something with it against a side line that one last night.

People cannot draw any definitive conclusions from last night's match about Mikel.

That squad is probably the best in the world. Perhaps Bayern's is as good or better.

We are a few notches below and it showed. At the moment it's games against AV, Everton, Sp**s etc that we should be delving into and drawing conclusions.

 

[Rasmi]

I think we should just punt it down field every time Stoke or Burnley style when playing against the best team in Europe, as opposed to trying.

Arteta has already adopted their attacking ways of constantly putting crosses from the wide areas. Except they have players good in the air and they use their wide players as crosses instead of full backs. His attacking philosophy is poor version of Dyche/Pulis. Mind you his right hand mind is steve round who has been with moyes for a decade and was part of the man u team that put 82 crosses against Fulham at old Trafford. So yeah their football philosophy is clear as day

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Bruh I’m literally looking at it right now. It says we’re 9th on xP

Fair play, didn't see Brighton there (Graham Potter!!)! Anyways, like I said, we're talking a similar season in terms of quality performance wise to Emery's first when he was being lauded around this time of year. Unlike Emery Arteta has shown a couple months now of coherence, and despite a terrible majority of the season, is similar to where he finished on xPTs (right now on pace for 54, to Emery's 59, which, should current level sustain, will probably be 59 or higher).

Less said about Emery's 2019-20, the better, of course. Where were we in the xG table when he was sacked? Nearly relegation if I recall...

 

[Rex Stone]

Fair play, didn't see Brighton there (Graham Potter!!)! Anyways, like I said, we're talking a similar season in terms of quality performance wise to Emery's first when he was being lauded around this time of year. Unlike Emery Arteta has shown a couple months now of coherence, and despite a terrible majority of the season, is similar to where he finished on xPTs (right now on pace for 54, to Emery's 59, which, should current level sustain, will probably be 59 or higher).

Less said about Emery's 2019-20, the better, of course. Where were we in the xG table when he was sacked? Nearly relegation if I recall...

Interesting feature on that site you linked. You can look at xPoints over a certain period.

From the Chelsea game to now when this “revival” supposedly began we’re still 7th in xPoints over that time frame and have overachieved our xG against to what looks a suspiciously unsustainable number.

It could be 8th if Brighton do well against an appalling Palace side later so I’m sceptical we’ve turned the corner that much tbh.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Arteta has already adopted their attacking ways of constantly putting crosses from the wide areas. Except they have players good in the air and they use their wide players as crosses instead of full backs. His attacking philosophy is poor version of Dyche/Pulis. Mind you his right hand mind is steve round who has been with moyes for a decade and was part of the man u team that put 82 crosses against Fulham at old Trafford. So yeah their football philosophy is clear as day

LOL

 

[AbouCuéllar]

From the Chelsea game to now when this “revival” supposedly began we’re still 7th in xPoints over that time frame and have overachieved our xG against to what looks a suspiciously unsustainable number.

xG in such a short sample size isn't going to tell us much, especially when you have a real red herring game like Wolves in there (red cards really tilt xG, naturally). We'll have a clearer picture at the end of the season, but my eyes definitely like what they've seen tactically since ESR has come into the team.

 

[Tree Points]

I've just watched 'highlights' of the Arsenal v City game and Arteta's post match interview is worrying for Arsenal fans in itself. It's accepted that 10th is ok - no-one has their knives out for Arteta this morning, people just seem to shrug their shoulders as if this is the norm now.

Arsenal, as things stand, just don't behave like a BIG club. Forget CL football anytime soon. Arteta has lowered expectations so much that a 1-0 loss is deemed as a good result because "at least it wasn't 4 or 5-0".

I'd be so frustrated if I was a season ticket holder when the fans start going back to the matches. Arsenal Football Club in 10th place and it's simply accepted by the fans and the media. If this was Man Utd in 10th, we'd be SLAUGHTERED by the press, opposition fans, our own fans etc etc etc. But at Arsenal, it's just another weekend, another bad result - midtable is fine because Arteta is building something. Building what though?

And I've said this before but the thing I find most strange is that Arteta isn't even an Arsenal legend. He was an average-good player who is more well known for his time at Everton than Arsenal. If you had Henry, Bergkamp, Adams or Wright as manager I'd get it. I'd understand the club and fans willing to give the young boss time and patience.

But Arteta. I don't get it. It's because he was mate's with Pep for a while at City. That's it - that's his qualification for managing one of the historically biggest clubs in England.

And I say 'historically' because to me, Arsenal aren't a big club anymore. When I was younger, I hated you lot. And that's because you were a threat. The Arsenal team with Pires, Henry, Vieria etc terrified me - they were a joy to watch. Flair, power, energy - they had everything.

Now I actually feel sorry for you. Arteta looks like he'd get blown away by a fart in the wind. He hasn't got the mentality to ever achieve anything with Arsenal as a manager.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

@Troopz is Zah on Arsenal-Mania?

 

[Makingtrax]

You're struggling to read the table right. xPTS is the weight of xG and xGA. ie the relevant marker here.

You can order the table how you like xPts, were 9th, still not 7th as you said.

 

[Rex Stone]

xG in such a short sample size isn't going to tell us much, especially when you have a real red herring game like Wolves in there (red cards really tilt xG, naturally). We'll have a clearer picture at the end of the season, but my eyes definitely like what they've seen tactically since ESR has come into the team.

For me if it looks like it’s midtable and it sounds like it’s midtable then that’s probably what we are.

While yes there have been some games where we’ve played well we’ve turned up in others and done nothing like yesterday, Villa away and Southampton in the cup.

I’m sceptical we’re ever going to compete if we’re this bipolar going forwards. Top teams just can’t have as many days off as we seem to under Arteta.

 

[Makingtrax]

We're 7th...

It's practically impossible that Sp**s or Leeds make up more than a 3 pt difference from us in xGvXGA in one game. I didn't realise Everton has played only 1 game less than us (thought it was 2), and it's even more impossible they make up almost a 6 pt difference in one game.

We’re not 7th, we’re 9th.

 

[Finesse]

And you know you could take the most positive view possible, and that's fine, but even taking the most positive view possible and giving him time etc etc, there are some really weird things going on under Arteta.

The substitutions are not good. Why is it every time we kick-off from the centre circle the ball goes to Holding and he kicks it long to the opposition? Why are our attacking set-pieces so consistently bad? Why has Willian's form been so bad, why has he been playing him out of position? Why was Saliba in the u-23's for half a season? Why did it take so long to bring ESR in? Why is Martinelli hardly playing? Why do we still concede so close to half-time regularly? Why do we never score in the last 15 mins?

Arteta isn't getting the sack any time soon, i can't be arsed to argue that he should, so fine take the super positive view, it's only Arsenal, the one thing we all love and cherish, f*ck it, let it stagnate, cool, but why all these basic errors?

No ! Not a positive view. An objective view. Your questions just highlights you need objectivity with your analysis.

 

[Makingtrax]

Ugh, yes, as I said, you argue like Manberg. Fervent and radical in the search of confirming your pre-conceived doctrine.

Again, have a look at results in Europe from 2010-2018. It paints a very clear picture. And it's facts.


(For the sake of entirety: Rodgers and Moyes are enjoying typical over-achieving seasons. The xG table bears this out. These things tend to even out over the course of a full season--see Rodgers' Leicester last season--and if not, certainly over the course of two. It's been an ugly season in terms of results but I will be extremely surprised if we don't finish above at least one of West Ham and Leicester in the actual table, and probably both in the xG table. Feel free to bookmark this post. )

You said we’re 7th on xG, when I showed you we weren’t, you switched to xPTS. Then you said our results in Europe have improved since the ‘middle of the past decade’, when I showed you they hadn’t, you switched to to 2010 to 2018. You’re slipperier than an eel.

You’ve got a story in your head, remarkably similar to that nutcase DT on AFTV that finishing 2nd to Leicester was worse than being 7 places below them and mid table on a number of metrics . . and regardless of any facts and figures you’re contriving stuff to prove it.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Then you said our results in Europe have improved since the ‘middle of the past decade

I said English teams have improved. Of course they have. Have a look. It's there for all to see.

You said we’re 7th on xG, when I showed you we weren’t, you switched to xPTS.

I said xG table. You then picked out xG alone (without looking at xGA) which makes little sense, and it would make little sense to make an xG table like this (if I had meant it to talk about just our offensive efficacy to the rest to the rest of the league, that would certainly have been seen from the context).

I learned enough from arguing with Manberg not to continue with people like yourself who aren't interested in real discussion, and just want to have an internet mental gymnastics fest to try and win imaginary pts for their position. Have a good day.

For me if it looks like it’s midtable and it sounds like it’s midtable then that’s probably what we are.

While yes there have been some games where we’ve played well we’ve turned up in others and done nothing like yesterday, Villa away and Southampton in the cup.

I’m sceptical we’re ever going to compete if we’re this bipolar going forwards. Top teams just can’t have as many days off as we seem to under Arteta.

That's fair, I take a more positive view, for the reasons I've outlined, but this is a totally fair view. Like I said, the rest of the season will tell us a lot more.