Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[Deleted member 102404]

You seem like you may be smart enough to realise what I mean so I’m not going to spell it out for you as to why I think this clubs more attractive now than it was pre Arteta.

It’s pretty clear that Arteta has built a very good squad of players, much better than what we had. Whether he can actually get them performing and winning trophies is another question, but I agree that even if he doesn’t, any new manager will be very keen to work with this squad.

 

[Makingtrax]

You seem like you may be smart enough to realise what I mean so I’m not going to spell it out for you as to why I think this clubs more attractive now than it was pre Arteta.

Of course I know what you mean, you’re further promoting the PR narrative that Arteta’s poor results are because he’s been clearing up the sh!t left by previous managers. And this shiny new cleaned out Arsenal will attractive to players and managers alike.

There are so many reasons, facts and pointers as to why this simplistic and glib story is wrong, but I’m not going to list them all again.

 

[OnlyOne]

Of course I know what you mean, you’re further promoting the PR narrative that Arteta’s poor results are because he’s been clearing up the sh!t left by previous managers. And this shiny new cleaned out Arsenal will attractive to players and managers alike.

There are so many reasons, facts and pointers as to why this simplistic and glib story is wrong, but I’m not going to list them all again.

You're literally putting words into my mouth and telling me what I said. I didn't say any of this or even imply it.

 

[OnlyOne]

It’s pretty clear that Arteta has built a very good squad of players, much better than what we had. Whether he can actually get them performing and winning trophies is another question, but I agree that even if he doesn’t, any new manager will be very keen to work with this squad.

Spot on, I'm going to put you forward for Trusted.

 

[Makingtrax]

You're literally putting words into my mouth and telling me what I said. I didn't say any of this or even imply it.

This is what you said to @Trilly yesterday when he called you out on the same point.

You know I haven’t said that right? Like you’re literally reading my posts. At the time we couldn’t sign the top guys.

I’m beginning to wonder if you even know what you write.

 

[OnlyOne]

This is what you said to @Trilly yesterday when he called you out on the same point.

I’m beginning to wonder if you even know what you write.

When Emery left we were in no position to be hiring anyone ‘elite’. We could have gone for someone like Carlo for a few years but we decided to invest in someone for the long term. Now if Mikel were to leave I think we’re one of the most attractive clubs in world football.

Also Conte hasn’t done anything at Sp**s yet. Let’s wait and see.

Pretty sure if you see who wanted the role straight after Arsène and straight after Unai you’ll see.

I’m not complicating anything.

No I’m not.

You know I haven’t said that right? Like you’re literally reading my posts. At the time we couldn’t sign the top guys.

I didn't imply it. I mentioned Carlo at the time because I think he was pretty heavily linked but even he was questioned at the time as to whether he was elite or a top bracket coach.

Also why are we much more attractive now? Look at the difference in squad and wage bill and the way we have backed Arteta compared to Emery, the club is much different now than it was then.

Not one point in this exchange did I 'further promote the PR narrative that Arteta’s poor results are because he’s been clearing up the sh!t left by previous managers'.

I haven't once mentioned results, you did. I have simply mentioned the club now would be a more attractive offer to top managers now, than it was when Emery left.

If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

 

[Trilly]

I didn't imply it. I mentioned Carlo at the time because I think he was pretty heavily linked but even he was questioned at the time as to whether he was elite or a top bracket coach.

Also why are we much more attractive now? Look at the difference in squad and wage bill and the way we have backed Arteta compared to Emery, the club is much different now than it was then.

I don’t think the squad and wage bill actually matters to a manager coming in, if anything managers love a project as it gives you the one thing that is never guaranteed at a top club: time.

We could have had the pick of the world’s best if we told every manager out there we’re going to give them four years and spend more than any team in Europe while they pick their team. I think that would be the single most attractive managerial gig in world football.

That was the case when we hired Arteta back in 2019 no? Or maybe it was when he went from coach to manager in 2020.

 

[Trilly]

Amidst all the spin and 'process' boll*cks, there lies the truth. But if he makes top 4 at his 4th attempt, the long wait and poor results will be made out to have been the plan all along.

Based off Edu’s interview the plan was basically to make the CL this season.

I think what they did was fall in love with their plan too much and allow Mikel to survive 1-3 sackable offences.

Then again I get it from a human perspective, they’ve gone all in on Mikel and if they sack him they look silly. They genuinely believe/hope that his ceiling as a manager is only capped by the players he has so why sack him when the team isn’t where it needs to be?

The genius part was the PR offensive that kept the fans onboard. Man United could learn a lot from that this coming season.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I genuinely don't understand why we don't put the wage bill of clubs at the same level as net spend / squad cost when it comes to evaluating teams performances and predicting where they should finish.

In most cases the outlay on wages over the course of a 4-5 year contract is higher than the actual fee paid too.

Part of our problem over the past 5+ years is we've bought quite a lot of average to poor players, and also sat them on silly money. That's the cardinal sin in recruitment. You can get away with buying average to poor players. You can't get away with buying those level of players and putting them on inflated wages for their worth.
You can't move them on.

This predates Arteta of course but he's had a few too, Runarsson, Cedric, Mari from his first window here.

I'm glad to see we've largely moved away from the experienced, 'do a job' type of recruitment.

 

[Makingtrax]

Based off Edu’s interview the plan was basically to make the CL this season.

I think what they did was fall in love with their plan too much and allow Mikel to survive 1-3 sackable offences.

Then again I get it from a human perspective, they’ve gone all in on Mikel and if they sack him they look silly. They genuinely believe/hope that his ceiling as a manager is only capped by the players he has so why sack him when the team isn’t where it needs to be?

The genius part was the PR offensive that kept the fans onboard. Man United could learn a lot from that this coming season.

I think the reason no other top club has ever done this before is because 3 seasons in the wilderness is too much for other clubs to consider, particularly not even qualifying for any European competition. They’d be worried about boycotts, fan unrest etc. Arsenal fans are peculiar though, they only go down that route when the clubs over performing.

 

[Macho]

Part of our problem over the past 5+ years is we've bought quite a lot of average to poor players, and also sat them on silly money. That's the cardinal sin in recruitment. You can get away with buying average to poor players. You can't get away with buying those level of players and putting them on inflated wages for their worth.
You can't move them on.

That's what happens when you're not in CL and just all round mudded like Arsenal.

Players fight and take pay cuts to join Barca. Does Jesus come to Arsenal if they didn't pay him what they did? I don't think so. People are high on him now but he could very easily fall into bumm category at the blink of an eye or a peak injury.

25 year old Laca isn't the joke he is today for example. Either way, the longer Arsenal go without CL than inflated wages will just be a thing.

Jesus, Ben White, Tierney, Eddie, Ødegaard when he gets extended, Saka, Partey all could become the new wave of overpayed average players it only takes one bad season. Very interesting how Arsenal fans talk as if this phenomenon is firmly behind them.

 

[Makingtrax]

We could have had the pick of the world’s best if we told every manager out there we’re going to give them four years and spend more than any team in Europe while they pick their team. I think that would be the single most attractive managerial gig in world football

Just imagine the advert for the managers job bro.
”Come to Arsenal: unlimited spend, unlimited time to craft your own hand built team regardless of results”.
Arteta would have been killed in the stampede.

 

[Xln]

Lol. We haven't managed top 4 in 3 attempts and you say we're one of the most attractive clubs in world football.

But if he makes top 4 at his 4th attempt, the long wait and poor results will be made out to have been the plan all along.

MakingTrump in full action

 

[OnlyOne]

I don’t think the squad and wage bill actually matters to a manager coming in, if anything managers love a project as it gives you the one thing that is never guaranteed at a top club: time.

We could have had the pick of the world’s best if we told every manager out there we’re going to give them four years and spend more than any team in Europe while they pick their team. I think that would be the single most attractive managerial gig in world football.

That was the case when we hired Arteta back in 2019 no? Or maybe it was when he went from coach to manager in 2020.

I personally think the squad you have to work with and financial restrictions because of a massive wage bill do matter.

We never proved to anyone they'll get 4 years and a ton to spend because the only proof we had after Arsène's reign was we bought targets Emery didn't want and sacked him after two years, all that was out in the open and we had a board that had no structure.

Do you think managers will be queuing at the door after seeing that? I don't think so.

We have now shown we're willing to back managers with their targets and give them time so, if Arteta is sacked managers will have seen the proof is in the pudding and be more open to joining.

 

[Hunta]

Teta is the man and he’s the man for the next three years.

Get over it.

 

[Trilly]

That's what happens when you're not in CL and just all round mudded like Arsenal.

Players fight and take pay cuts to join Barca. Does Jesus come to Arsenal if they didn't pay him what they did? I don't think so. People are high on him now but he could very easily fall into bumm category at the blink of an eye or a peak injury.

25 year old Laca isn't the joke he is today for example. Either way, the longer Arsenal go without CL than inflated wages will just be a thing.

Jesus, Ben White, Tierney, Eddie, Ødegaard when he gets extended, Saka, Partey all could become the new wave of overpayed average players it only takes one bad season. Very interesting how Arsenal fans talk as if this phenomenon is firmly behind them.

Yeah but when you look at the squad the risk of it happening is lower than in previous years.

The major key is that first renewal, we have done terribly when it comes to renewing guys who we should have actually put up for sale.

 

[Macho]

I think Arsenal manager is one of the most coveted jobs in world football after the likes of Madrid and stuff.

Even if it's debatable today, it won't be after Arteta's tenure.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

That's what happens when you're not in CL and just all round mudded like Arsenal.

Players fight and take pay cuts to join Barca. Does Jesus come to Arsenal if they didn't pay him what they did? I don't think so. People are high on him now but he could very easily fall into bumm category at the blink of an eye or a peak injury.

25 year old Laca isn't the joke he is today for example. Either way, the longer Arsenal go without CL than inflated wages will just be a thing.

Jesus, Ben White, Tierney, Eddie, Ødegaard when he gets extended, Saka, Partey all could become the new wave of overpayed average players it only takes one bad season. Very interesting how Arsenal fans talk as if this phenomenon is firmly behind them.

I don't think we'd have an issue moving on any of those guys tbh. Mainly because many of them are English or have PL pedigree, like Jesus, and will attract interest from PL clubs if we want to sell.

Age profile as well, they're still up and comers. I'd take a 23 year old Ødegaard on £80k a week over a soon to be 31 Cedric on £75k a week for example. One of them is much easier to move on than the other even if he had a fall off in form.

The only one that's dubious to me is Partey considering his age and other stuff.

I can't really judge the new signings of course but when I look at the wages of the squad now the vast majority seem kind of in line with their squad status, barring Pepe. That had not been the case for a long time previously.

 

[Macho]

Yeah but when you look at the squad the risk of it happening is lower than in previous years.

The major key is that first renewal, we have done terribly when it comes to renewing guys who we should have actually put up for sale.

That's all PR the risk is the same. Already Arsenal are going into next summer potentially having to pay through the nose for Saka and Saliba alone. That's without having any clue if 4th or above is secured at this point.

Who's coming in for Ødegaard once he joins the 100k+ club? Or Ben White who's already on well over 100k? The list of suitors is very small you could only imagine a couple clubs each at best.

 

[Trilly]

I personally think the squad you have to work with and financial restrictions because of a massive wage bill do matter.

Nah because manager's will accept the job first and then complain later. Look at Conte for example.

We never proved to anyone they'll get 4 years and a ton to spend because the only proof we had after Arsène's reign was we bought targets Emery didn't want and sacked him after two years, all that was out in the open and we had a board that had no structure.

Do you think managers will be queuing at the door after seeing that? I don't think so.

This assumes that we wouldn't reach out to the managers and actually have a conversation with them. Edu mentioned loads of convos between him and Mikel. When Sp**s approached Conte you don't think the first thing they mentioned was how this wouldn't be like previous times? Come on man!

We have now shown we're willing to back managers with their targets and give them time so, if Arteta is sacked managers will have seen the proof is in the pudding and be more open to joining.

I get this but manager's aren't kids who need to see evidence before taking a job. All you need is a convo and reassurance. Just like we gave to Arteta before he took the job.