Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[DJ_Markstar]

No you haven't, I have had the Herculean task of reading some of your lengthy posts and only thing I see is your pucker firmly entrenched in Arteta and club management's dirty place. Oh excuse me for making fact based critiques that when you do it is being balanced, but when I do it it is crying. So now you acknowledge after several paragraphs long wordgasms that my points are right the whole time, ok then.

I've pointed out repeatedly that they've been wrong (deliberately, in my opinion) and you either obfuscate, deflect or ignore. Anything but acknowledge when you pulled certain "facts" out of your ringpiece, such as gross expenditure. Any comment on this at all or are you going to ignore me again?

 

[berric]

How about he wins something and improves on the fact that he is the fish among big 6 managers and improves on being bottom of Big 6 table in terms of points off other top 6 teams. To me loyalty is won by accomplishment and until Arteta wins league or CL he gets no loyalty. If after the time and money he doesn't at the least get 4th place he shouldn't get fired they should lock him the Tower.

Yeah don't get me wrong I think there's still some way to go. He needs to improve man management, subs, big game management, etc.

But I think at this stage it is healthier to support the team as the signs of something good are there than arguing about the good old days like grumpy old drunkards.

We're top of the table, we play nice football, dominating even the away games, the squad is likable with potential to build on it more... It's now a glass-half-full scenario.

 

[Blankety Blank]

He will get praise for doing something like winning something, players of Viera’s price tag are generally good; it has nothing to do with Arteta.

True but £35m can get you some bang average players nowadays or almost half a pepe. It really has more to do with getting the players with the correct attributes & technical ability that can fit the squad/team & improve.

My analysis from this season is the next:

1. There are 3 players that hold this team together and are pillars to this form. Saliba, Partey and Gabriel Jesús. The three are very physical and excellent in technique. That's why we look more physical and better in technique. We need good rotation options for them, specially Partey.

2. Saliba is on VvD levels on impact and quality... You don't know what important he is to this. He is a outstanding player. I think his only real deal is going to be Haaland. That's how much I rate him.

3. Our wingers are good, quick and very good team players but they need better finishing and as much I love them we could improve them (or they themselves). The difference between Martinelli and Mane is currently how effective they are on the ball and that's what could make the difference between top4 or winning the league. We need both, Saka and him to reach that level at least.

4. Xhaka is playing better on the new role, he is doing great currently and it reflects. He is doing what Gundogan did for City. Still... We need another option to incorporate to the team. It would be smart to do it.

I don't have problems with Tomi, Tierney, White and Zinchenko as our FB options. If we are not playing with FBs like Dani Alves esque, it's ok.

Finally as a note, it would be interesting to watch us play with a pure CF. Watch what Haaland is doing for City once Guardiola let all his pride about playing without CFs... They created a lot but struggle to score. Now they have someone who score that. Maybe they created a little bit less, but they are more effective. I don't want us to go through the first path, which is the problem we are experiencing, creating a lot but struggling to score, on other words, we need to create a lot more to score than effective teams. So maybe a better goalscorer would be a great option and let Gabriel Jesús to play more freely as winger/striker for some matches. And as much as Eddie looks well, I don't see him as that 9 unless he becomes in some sort of African Agüero or the new Samuel Eto.

I think that is a decent take.

What I will say about the number 9 is that it is almost impossible to get the 'perfect one'.
Sp**s were incredibly fortunate they had Kane in the ranks & let's be honest haaland is just a freak of nature.
You are talking about 2 likely all time greats/generational talents in that position.

You can go & spend the best part of 100m & not be guaranteed 25 goals a season.
We saw how Lukaku struggled last season at Chelsea & it will be interesting to see how Nunez does at Liverpool.

I have always liked Issak but he had a poor season in Spain last season so the release seemed high but he may kick on?

I was an advocator of buying Tammy last summer if possible (but we needed to move Laca) the majority on here thought Tammy was not good enough.

Auba was an excellent finisher for us until the malaria/COVID season & Laca always gave his all (they both cost very big money at the time btw). But imho Jesus & Eddie are far better now than the last 2 season's Auba/Laca.
They will not get the goals of a peak Auba from 3 season's ago but add more to the team.
The problem is often people compare players at their 'peak' & remember only the good times with rose tinted spectacles.

Ødegaard may not be as good as peak Mesut but he is way better than the Mesut we saw for his last 2 season's here.

Good thing about having a young team is that many are likely not yet at their peak.

When Emery took over the team was already on the slide with too many past their best & this became even more evident the following season.

On the striker front it's down to other players as you say to add more goals like Saks/Martinelli but they are still both very young.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

My point was more so I don't believe a sample size of 7 games against primarily lower table opposition is enough to say that we have definitively turned a corner, certainly not I told you so posting. We should absolutely be praised for it, and I've defended the view before that the games against these types of teams are the bread and butter that can lead to decades of top 4, and an obsession with our losses against bigger teams clouded the overall picture of the club in the past.

The signs are all there that we have turned the corner admittedly, it's been clear from pre-season the pattern of play has turned up a notch. Players playing with total confidence, consistent results. I understand the gloating jubilant atmosphere from Arteta loyalists who, with the exception of a great FA cup have had to endure years of primarily disappointment, bottling top 4 last, EL humiliation V Emery, 8th etc, and the snickers when they said it was all part of a process. However we are still only a Partey absence away from in my view not having a top 4 level midfield. We've gone on good runs like this before then lost multiple on the bounce.

In short I believe this will very likely be the season we take a step forward, perhaps a leap, but let's first wait till it happens before crowing Arteta the new king of Arsenal

No one is crowning anyone the king of anything, I'm just addressing what I consider to be either poorly formed arguments or poorly worded arguments, and I'm happy to have a back and forth about it.

Yes the sample size is small this season, but in all of the games we looked like deserved winners and crucially won the games comfortably, other than ManUre away. This is in itself a huge improvement on last season, and in comparable games vs last season we're 6 points better off, having lost Brentford/Palace away last season and winning with clean sheets this season - these are huge marked improvements both in overall play and results. When we went behind to Fulham I 100% knew we were winning anyway, and that's not a feeling I've had for 15 odd years, and we've come back from conceding quickly every game this season, even in the loss.

There is also a greater trend you're missing, which starts from December 2020 as @drippin has pointed out and evidenced many times so I won't bother going over it again.

Also, I'm 100% not an Arteta loyalist. If I were, my arguments wouldn't be based on on-pitch results, overall play or anything like that, you'd hear fuzzier arguments based on half truths, outright lies and hopium like a reverse farzad or something.

I do have a bias for long termism at a club since we had success with it before, but it must be based on core fundamentals - in this case recruitment of young, hungry, positionally versatile players and that's clearly Arteta's way of doing things. Additionally, its obvious that the patterns and style of play are drastically improved from when Artekkers first came in. To pretend like any of this is an accident is reaching.

 

[drippin]

He will get praise for doing something like winning something, players of Viera’s price tag are generally good; it has nothing to do with Arteta.

He has won FA Cup, the most respected and toughest national cup in the world, no matter if you repeat this propaganda.

For 35 million euros, for a player with longer contract and great potential, you get players like Vieira or Amadou Onana. Cost exactly the same amount. Btw. Onana has been good I think and I wanted him for 20-25 million euros.

Both very inexperienced so contain a risk, so the management has to identify the talent very well. In addition to coach the player and develop them to fulfill their potential. It's totally different to buy like Zinchenko for similar amount of money, because he only wanted Arsenal and had 2 years in contract.

But yeah, nothing to do with Arteta. Your pipe brain thinking is something else man. You have locked your views and admit nothing that is opposite to your view.

 

[theHotHead]

We are no City with attraction, so building City level team needs a lot of good planning and even luck.

With UEL you can't easily attract for example Paqueta to compete with Ødegaard and Xhaka. So you buy Vieira who is cheaper with less wages and maybe different payment structure from Portugal than Aulas' Lyon. And very happy to be part of Arsenal at this point in his career, even on the bench, with potential to be a top player.

Of course there is more what you pay for unproven potential in comparison with Vieira vs. Paqueta, so there are risks involved. But this is the kind of compromise that has to be done to build a top team over a couple years with some risks for the short term success, but the cheaper deal in many ways allows more money to other positions.

What is interesting with City, is how thin squad Pep is fine with, this season and last at the least. This is likely to do with keeping the top players happy, having enough game-time over the season. Also you have more money to spend on a single player, when you have less players in the squad.

Not sure I agree with ANY of this ! We are Arsenal football club, one of the biggest clubs in the world. We have NEVER had the pick of the best players, we never spent the most money either, what we have been good at is finding decent players or top players that were failures elsewhere and turning them back into top players.

Paqueta isn't a top player, but lets assume you think he is, how did West Ham - a club less attractive than us and not in the CL manage to secure his services ? Maybe I am missing your point here. We attracted the likes of Ødegaard and Aubameyang with UEL, the latter was a world class striker when we bought him ! If your reference to Paqueta was as a third choice player - I get that point, he won't want to sit on the bench.

These inferences that we have to have City's money to compete are lazy. Liverpool don't have that money yet are able to compete because they don't give their players away ! We have sold umpteen international footballers since Arteta has been manager for a fag packet and a tube of Rolos ! We have been pathetic with player sales.

Finding a system that suits the players you have is far better than assembling a team of Galacitcos that are disjointed. Leicester won the league because they played to the strengths of the players they had. We spent 2 seasons slinging in crosses every 2 minutes to a centre forward that we didn't have ! anyone with half a brain can see Xhaka isn't a DM, thankfully Arteta has now worked that out and we are reaping the rewards, but it can just a easily be 2 steps back if he continues to think Lokonga can play as a DM, he is worse defensively than Xhaka !

 

[drippin]

Not sure I agree with ANY of this ! We are Arsenal football club, one of the biggest clubs in the world. We have NEVER had the pick of the best players, we never spent the most money either, what we have been good at is finding decent players or top players that were failures elsewhere and turning them back into top players.

Paqueta isn't a top player, but lets assume you think he is, how did West Ham - a club less attractive than us and not in the CL manage to secure his services ? Maybe I am missing your point here. We attracted the likes of Ødegaard and Aubameyang with UEL, the latter was a world class striker when we bought him ! If your reference to Paqueta was as a third choice player - I get that point, he won't want to sit on the bench.

These inferences that we have to have City's money to compete are lazy. Liverpool don't have that money yet are able to compete because they don't give their players away ! We have sold umpteen international footballers since Arteta has been manager for a fag packet and a tube of Rolos ! We have been pathetic with player sales.

Finding a system that suits the players you have is far better than assembling a team of Galacitcos that are disjointed. Leicester won the league because they played to the strengths of the players they had. We spent 2 seasons slinging in crosses every 2 minutes to a centre forward that we didn't have ! anyone with half a brain can see Xhaka isn't a DM, thankfully Arteta has now worked that out and we are reaping the rewards, but it can just a easily be 2 steps back if he continues to think Lokonga can play as a DM, he is worse defensively than Xhaka !

Yes you're missing my points. Good luck in this forum, I won't start arguing about these things again like you HotHead want.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I’m really starting to see why he was considered such a prodigy of a coach. Compare him to other ex players and managers of a similar age and he’s clear.

I’m happy to eat the humble pie served, especially after getting rid of all of those clown players like Laca and Auba. You can see how much they were hindering our style of play.

He actually has good taste in players not letting awful crap get lots of minutes like Arsène use to.

 

[Entropics]

An easy win against a very uninspiring Brentford won't make me fill out apology forms, no. Our best performance keeps being the first game of the season, our best stretch of football keeps being the first 20 minutes of the season. Replicating that would be a good first step.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

I’m really starting to see why he was considered such a prodigy of a coach. Compare him to other ex players and managers of a similar age and he’s clear.

I’m happy to eat the humble pie served, especially after getting rid of all of those clown players like Laca and Auba. You can see how much they were hindering our style of play.

He actually has good taste in players not letting awful crap get lots of minutes like Arsène use to.

Don't think anyone really cares about IToldYouSo posting or humble pie or whatever, just that people recognise what is currently going on and not living in the past and complaining about the 8th placed finishes that happened quite a while back now. All good from my POV.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

An easy win against a very uninspiring Brentford won't make me fill out apology forms, no. Our best performance keeps being the first game of the season, our best stretch of football keeps being the first 20 minutes of the season. Replicating that would be a good first step.

Remind me again how many teams have gone to Brentford's gaff and beaten them comfortably while keeping a clean sheet this season?

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Don't think anyone really cares about IToldYouSo posting or humble pie or whatever, just that people recognise what is currently going on and not living in the past and complaining about the 8th placed finishes that happened quite a while back now. All good from my POV.

I’m not talking about people here I mean from Arteta. I didn’t really believe in me and he humbled me so I’m giving him props for that.

Compared to some people on this forum that can’t even cheer when Arsenal win because they hate Arteta so much I think it’s important to show everyone isn’t unhinged.

 

[Dokaka]

An easy win against a very uninspiring Brentford won't make me fill out apology forms, no. Our best performance keeps being the first game of the season, our best stretch of football keeps being the first 20 minutes of the season. Replicating that would be a good first step.

 

[dka1]

Tbh I think this has to be your mindset if you're a West Ham fan

 

[Trilly]

You have locked your views and admit nothing that is opposite to your view.

I can’t.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Tbh I think this has to be your mindset if you're a West Ham fan

Don't be mean to our Doks

 

[Entropics]

Are you trusting the Moyes process?

 

[DJ_Markstar]

I’m not talking about people here I mean from Arteta. I didn’t really believe in me and he humbled me so I’m giving him props for that.

Compared to some people on this forum that can’t even cheer when Arsenal win because they hate Arteta so much I think it’s important to show everyone isn’t unhinged.

Mods can we change his name to BigPoppaProps?

 

[yorch44]

True but £35m can get you some bang average players nowadays or almost half a pepe. It really has more to do with getting the players with the correct attributes & technical ability that can fit the squad/team & improve.

I think that is a decent take.

What I will say about the number 9 is that it is almost impossible to get the 'perfect one'.
Sp**s were incredibly fortunate they had Kane in the ranks & let's be honest haaland is just a freak of nature.
You are talking about 2 likely all time greats/generational talents in that position.

You can go & spend the best part of 100m & not be guaranteed 25 goals a season.
We saw how Lukaku struggled last season at Chelsea & it will be interesting to see how Nunez does at Liverpool.

I have always liked Issak but he had a poor season in Spain last season so the release seemed high but he may kick on?

I was an advocator of buying Tammy last summer if possible (but we needed to move Laca) the majority on here thought Tammy was not good enough.

Auba was an excellent finisher for us until the malaria/COVID season & Laca always gave his all (they both cost very big money at the time btw). But imho Jesus & Eddie are far better now than the last 2 season's Auba/Laca.
They will not get the goals of a peak Auba from 3 season's ago but add more to the team.
The problem is often people compare players at their 'peak' & remember only the good times with rose tinted spectacles.

Ødegaard may not be as good as peak Mesut but he is way better than the Mesut we saw for his last 2 season's here.

Good thing about having a young team is that many are likely not yet at their peak.

When Emery took over the team was already on the slide with too many past their best & this became even more evident the following season.

On the striker front it's down to other players as you say to add more goals like Saks/Martinelli but they are still both very young.

We always had the best or one of the best strikers in the world and I don't see why we should not keep doing it. We have currently one of those in GJ. He is very complete but we still lack some goals. Eddie looks better than before but I still have my doubts.

Don't let me it wouldn't be interesting to watch us play with Osimhen in the middle and GJ and Saka/Martinelli on the flanks. The other option is our wingers had 15 goals each one. Can they add those goals to their game? Honestly I think Martinelli could, but Saka I doubt. He scores but I don't see that killer instinct you see in other players. Walcott for example was the opposite, he contributed less to the build but you knew he could scored from any angle from his wing. He had outstanding finishing.

 

[dka1]

An easy win against a very uninspiring Brentford won't make me fill out apology forms, no. Our best performance keeps being the first game of the season, our best stretch of football keeps being the first 20 minutes of the season. Replicating that would be a good first step.

Hmm I dunno man. Admittedly Brentford aren't as strong as a team like Man Utd, but we went there and basically held them at arm's length as we proceeded to beat the stuffing out of them.

We've looked mostly comfortable this season, this is stats wise too; we're out shooting teams, have better xG stats in most games and we're limiting teams to little shots (or atleast little shots on target). We're controlling play through possession as well.

Last season I think I saw good control in games post January but we still suffered from not being able to create enough chances and a variety of chances consistently enough but we do look a lot better at it this season.

It's true that Brentford aren't a top 6 side but we've gone away to two tricky venues in Selhurst Park and Brentford's stadium and I think we've been comfortably better than both teams. These are classic "drop points" games because it's playing against teams that are hard to beat at home.

I don't want to speak too too soon but I think we already look good enough that it's not outlandish to say that we should be getting top 4 and the fact that we've looked this good so far is something you sort of have to give Arteta credit for.

I've certainly criticised Arteta heavily previously so it's only fair to say he's doing very very well.

I know some will be really down on us going away to Utd and not winning but in my view the team won't win every game of the season. I certainly don't think the game was a free hit and I'm not saying that it's acceptable to lose out in all of the top 6 games but we've still got the other top 5 teams to play home/away and Utd to play at home, so I'm looking forward to seeing how we do.