Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[blrgooner]

That number just increases on a quarterly basis and has absolutely no bearing on actual facts. As per transfrmarkt the actual figure from 2020/21 is 280m(net spend). Sp**s is at 260m and they have players like Kulu on loan. They also started off with a better team as displayed by the fact that they finished above us.
The idea that we have somehow spent much more than others is mostly an illusion.

Also, the net spend from 16/17 to 19/20 for Arsenal was 245m. So, for the same 3 year period, the net spend has increased by 35m. This was during a time when we were much better at selling players too and made 211m of income through sales(compared to 57m in the last 3 years).
That doesn`t seem to be indicative of some kind of unprecedented backing(another fav agenda item here), especially considering major reduction in wages during this period.

 

[Red London]

and you still haven't answered the question what exactly it is you want to see. Loads has changed, a lot of the Arteta haters have disappeared or have very quietly switched sides. Or have said nice, keep going.

The only thing that hasn't changed really is the policing. The few remnants of the Arteta Out movement are being pressured to relent and get on the knee lol.

When results were poor (or just not amazing), this thread was a bit of an embarrassment. You can deny it if you want but it was just a group of very negative Arteta outers patrolling the thread like… police…. With only one thing on their mind. I guess now it has begun to switch. Maybe people look way too much into present results and not the future when it comes to their opinion.

Can’t really complain, it’s metaphysics I suppose. Energy will accumulate in differing directions and you will get reactions based off this.

Let’s see if the tribal politics happen in the opposite direction, if it does then I will be well against that also. You will often catch me in the middle watching over the sitch with a zoot in hand. It’s usually the correct place to be seated, seeing both sides.

As you have seen, I have mainly disengaged from this over the last few months as it is beyond me trying to explain and getting involved in anymore. Samspade’s post resonated with a belief I have had for quite some time, so I got involved again.

 

[Macho]

When results were poor (or just not amazing), this thread was a bit of an embarrassment. You can deny it if you want but it was just a group of very negative Arteta outers patrolling the thread like… police…. With only one thing on their mind. I guess now it has begun to switch. Maybe people look way too much into present results and not the future when it comes to their opinion.

Can’t really complain, it’s metaphysics I suppose. Energy will accumulate in differing directions and you will get reactions based off this.

Let’s see if the tribal politics happen in the opposite direction, if it does then I will be well against that also. You will often catch me in the middle watching over the sitch with a zoot in hand. It’s usually the correct place to be seated, seeing both sides.

As you have seen, I have mainly disengaged from this over the last few months as it is beyond me trying to explain and getting involved in anymore. Samspade’s post resonated with a belief I have had for quite some time, so I got involved again.

I just think the people crying about tribal politics aren't exactly qualified to be constantly highlighting it when they are the biggest participants.

Kinda like the frauds on here who routinely accuse me of wanting Arsenal to lose when there's proof of them doing exactly that under different managers.

 

[Farzad]

You have already just lied about how more many games Tottenham and United had compared to us last season in this thread. So it's you who should learn the facts. Here again you're lying and saying we had 40 game season. No we didn't, we had 45 games. United had 49 games and pretty easy UCL group with Villareal, Atalanta and Young Boys. Tottenham had 53 games and 5 of those were easy Conference League games.

Also you need to learn how to think about statistics. This link you gave has similar problems as the tweet which mentioned a list made from Transfermarkt squad and injury information.

Also this is disingenious, because the list you give ends at 5.4.2022, and that coincides almost exactly when we started having Partey, Tierney and Tomiyasu injured all at the same time. Of course then the other teams also have a bit more injuries at the end of the season, but this injury-crisis was clearly our worst and it is not taken into account.

I counted that we had 28 injury absences from that point on and 9 games. That makes it on average 3 players per game. It's also 43 days in total, so if that's on average three players, it makes ~130 more days missed due to injury. The one player who also missed games was Lacazette I think who was a starter.

If you add that 130 to the list's 520 days due to injury, it's 650 days. City had 707 missed due to injury with a similar sized squad (20), but better quality. For example United seems to have had 4 proper squad players more in their squad, and naturally with more players it's more easy to get more injuries into these statistics. Tottenham seems to have had 3 more proper squad players more, if you count Scarlett as third striker, but I counted Balogun too. Still Tottenham had 756 days missed and United 806 days. The difference is 57 days more for City with a similar sized squad, 106 days for Tottenham with 3 more players and 156 days for United with 4 more players.

Then you also have to take into account what players are missing. Are they some minor squad players or youth players, or important first team players. We had important first team players injured. This list doesn't take that into account in any way, and it has a huge impact on how much the injuries matter or how big crisis it is.

So there are many things to consider when looking at statistics in a list like that. Yes we didn't have huge amount of injuries last season, but it's not as simple as saying we had very small amount either, especially as the injuries happened, I think, almost always to starting eleven players. Can't be bothered/have time to look how it went for other teams regarding the importance of the players injured. It's a huge difference if for example Winks is injured vs. if Partey is injured, but in that list it has the same value.

Updated squad lists for 2021/22 Premier League

After January 2022 transfer window closed, see the players registered by clubs for the rest of the season

www.premierleague.com

We had no injury crisis as the numbers I posted showed. We had an idiot manager who had a squad too thin for one competition and who threw talent away in January while Sp**s added a 3rd forward. You are the liar there was no injury crisis. There was a bonehead manager betting his whole season on a thin squad and Partey’s butter knees. Try calling yourself the liar when you claim a team with no competitions and at the bottom of the injury minutes table had an injury crisis. No we still have a bozo manager running too thin a defensive midfield

 

[Makingtrax]

Nail. Head. I mentioned it last year myself actually but you phrased it very well.

It’s been very evident for some time now but it’s taken us having to have a fantastic run of form for people to really point it out properly (imo it shouldn’t hinge on how we are playing, it was there regardless).

For me it’s never been been about loving Arteta or anything, I just hate the lack of individualism in opinion and people seeking some form of power through numbers on an Internet forum.

Lol. Lack of individualism? That's the very last thing you and the rest of the posters gloating and insulting over the last few pages want.

And it was the same under Wenger. If you didn't go along with the social media narrative that Wenger's declining and Top 4 is rubbish you were ostracised. Only now it's Arteta's process is brilliant and top 4 is fantastic.

Well here's some truths. Wenger never declined until the fans forced him out. Top 4 was always fantastic for our spend. Arteta is a novice whose made a lot of mistakes. The club has backed him to the hilt with time and money that no other manager has had in the premiership era. There are signs that he's learnt a lot and is calming down and improving. Edu's buys were woeful at first but have improved year on year. The fans have got used to mid table life and are now happy again at the thought of top 4. There are no Arteta outers currently and unlike the days of Wenger nobody on here wants us to lose.

Now get back to your stirring.

 

[drippin]

We had no injury crisis as the numbers I posted showed. We had an idiot manager who had a squad too thin for one competition and who threw talent away in January while Sp**s added a 3rd forward. You are the liar there was no injury crisis. There was a bonehead manager betting his whole season on a thin squad and Partey’s butter knees. Try calling yourself the liar when you claim a team with no competitions and at the bottom of the injury minutes table had an injury crisis. No we still have a bozo manager running too thin a defensive midfield

You got nothing against the points I rose up, just more lying and accusing of things that you have done here with clear evidence for it.

3 starting players injured at the same time for many games, all related to build-up and defending is an injury-crisis. For example if one of them was an attacker, it would be a bit different of how impactful it would be.

I have already explained how our spend wasn't big compared to United, someone else compared to Tottenham. And how sometimes players turn out to be injury-prone or being bad buys, happens to all teams. If we had ~137 million pounds more to spend like United did during the time Arteta has been here, we would not have had ~10 million players on average as backups for these three players. They would have been like 55 million players as an example, or whatever the sum would be. We all would want more to spend but it's not always possible with UEL and FFP.

You're back to the ignore list very soon, all you do is cry and lie and accuse others of what you yourself do.

 

[Macho]

When Arsenal lose this thread is quiet but when Arsenal win

 

[Haphazard]

We're seeing some good signs, even when we concede we keep pushing and score again which was not happening before.

I still think relying on Partey's is dangerous given his fitness. Hopefully he can stay fit for long periods now.

The key is to be versatile during the big games especially, we can sit back for 10-15 mins to defend to frustrate the opposition and try to hit on the counter. Let's not lose our heads in the big games.

Top 4 HAS to be the aim, especially with our start. Wouldn't hurt to win a cup too

 

[Makingtrax]

Worst I’ve said about you is that you’re a spinner because you don’t answer questions or deal with the main pint of conversations. You’re clearly a spinner because we’re still sat here having these stupid debates. Go and tell anyone else barring your cabal that Xhaka’s ‘always been very good’ and ‘hasn’t improved’ and they’d laugh in your face, and for good reason.

Show me the post where I say Xhaka hasn't improved? Yes, he's always been a good player but I've said in several posts that he looks even better now with quality players around him like Zinchenko and Jesus.

You're gaslighting and turning quite sinister.

 

[drippin]

When Arsenal lose this thread is quiet but when Arsenal win

Not all people love misery. I spend too much time here anyway, so why would I spend much time here when people just cry, when people cry here even when we are top of the league. And explain the same things over and over which I have already said many times. It's obvious many here don't see the big picture no matter how well you explain it. Luckily there is free will and one can choose how to spend their time, and still support Arsenal and watch every game.

 

[Makingtrax]

Luckily there is free will and one can choose how to spend their time, and still support Arsenal and watch every game.

Well said bro. Good to see you not joining @samspade 's 'you will adhere to my view or I will ostracise you' group.

 

[drippin]

Well said bro. Good to see you not joining @samspade 's 'you will adhere to my view or I will ostracise you' group.

Yeah, free will and speech is there for many things, like saying Wenger finishing 5th by a point and then 6th by, was it 12 points from 4th, is only the fan's fault, never Wenger's in any way. No matter how silly it looks.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yeah, free will and speech is there for many things, like saying Wenger finishing 5th by a point and then 6th by, was it 12 points from 4th, is only the fan's fault, never Wenger's in any way. No matter how silly it looks.

Yeah, there's free will to pretend that all those boycotts, planes, rants, protests, and placards didn't disrupt the manager or the players. I'll grant you that.

 

[drippin]

Yeah, there's free will to pretend that all those boycotts, planes, rants, protests, and placards didn't disrupt the manager or the players. I'll grant you that.

I have never said that, because of course it can and will affect, but you have said like that the league finishes are only the fans' fault, which is a totally ridiculous take.

The league positions and squad building plus especially top 6 away performances were clearly regressing so it was time for Wenger to go at his age, but he was treated harshly.

Although it was contributing factor imo that Wenger seemed to have so much power at the club that nothing seemed to affect what the fans tried to do to get a change. And they wanted it even if they knew what happened to United after Ferguson left, it was that bad.

 

[theHotHead]

Results aside. Our general play and control of games look much better this season. We genuinely look like a very good football team. We didn’t last season as we scraped many wins. Sign of team team is their general play and control of games. So far we have shown this

We look very good this season, I feel far more confident that we are now finally equipped to deal with the big boys.

 

[Makingtrax]

I have never said that, because of course it can and will affect, but you have said like that the league finishes are only the fans' fault, which is a totally ridiculous take.

The league positions and squad building plus especially top 6 away performances were clearly regressing so it was time for Wenger to go at his age, but he was treated harshly.

Although it was contributing factor imo that Wenger seemed to have so much power at the club that nothing seemed to affect what the fans tried to do to get a change. And they wanted it even if they knew what happened to United after Ferguson left, it was that bad.

You’ve spoilt a bit of humorous banter with that drivel. 21/22 season we were bottom of the top 6 league, out of Europe completely but you we’re saying how great everything was and we were improving. Never change bro.

 

[drippin]

You’ve spoilt a bit of humorous banter with that drivel. 21/22 season we were bottom of the top 6 league, out of Europe completely but you we’re saying how great everything was and we were improving. Never change bro.

Pretty sure I haven't said how great everything was if the situation didn't reflect it.

Seems like this is once more people not understanding what they read here, and try to put words to other people's mouths.

I have mostly explained the situation of the club, try to explain the bigger picture so people would have understanding and not too big expectations based on some distant past.

And as you can see I have been proven right in my trust in Arteta thus far. Also because I don't want Arsenal to be one of those clubs that fire managers once in a while just for the sake of it, not looking at the bigger picture and development besides some results.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

I think it's quite simple why there's so much tension. Arteta is sticking to his masterplan. This year it's all about coming back to CL while serious title push will probably happen next season after achieving CL qualification. IMHO it's logical although one can have reasonable reason to think whether (due to some rather unexpected crumbling of Liverpool and Chelsea) we can get ahead of the schedule and compete this year.

So in scenario 1 we could have spent big money on top midfielder and winger, add some depth players and go all the way. Was it achievable? I don't know, in my opinion probably not but I understand people who think that we should have done that. Next year can be tricky, Liverpool and Chelsea may become rejuvenated, Ten Haag might finally wake United up, Newcastle could become heavy spenders and some other contender may emerge. Maybe it's our year?

But in scenario 2 if we manage to secure CL this season with our current personnel we will enter next offseason with a healthy wage bill, almost no deadwood which will make us very attractive destination even for top top players. I think that Arsenal brand still holds weight in football world and we might see one or two big surprises. And aforementioned bad scenario wouldn't really matter then and solid foundation would be set already.

Also, the main reason I'm leaning towards second scenario is that with buying last summer guys like Gakpo, Bissouma or Douglas Luiz we would be stuck with them for a foreseeable future with no room to wiggle and I don't think that they're good enough players for a team that aims at the highest honors in PL or CL. Even if we, miraculously, win the league this season next year we can easily fall back to mediocrity.

But it can go either way. Time will tell. That's why this thread will live probably up to 5000 pages before New Year

Good post.
It’s why I believe we went with top younger players. Coach them , get them experience and be good enough to achieve top 4. The more experienced players we can get whilst out of the CL are limited and like you say, I doubt they would be title winning calibre players.
Obvious exception is Jesus, but I think he only became available because of his relationship with Arteta and not getting enough game time under Pep. He’s good enough to lead a title winning side up front.

 

[drippin]

Good post.
It’s why I believe we went with top younger players. Coach them , get them experience and be good enough to achieve top 4. The more experienced players we can get whilst out of the CL are limited and like you say, I doubt they would be title winning calibre players.
Obvious exception is Jesus, but I think he only became available because of his relationship with Arteta and not getting enough game time under Pep. He’s good enough to lead a title winning side up front.

We are no City with attraction, so building City level team needs a lot of good planning and even luck.

With UEL you can't easily attract for example Paqueta to compete with Ødegaard and Xhaka. So you buy Vieira who is cheaper with less wages and maybe different payment structure from Portugal than Aulas' Lyon. And very happy to be part of Arsenal at this point in his career, even on the bench, with potential to be a top player.

Of course there is more what you pay for unproven potential in comparison with Vieira vs. Paqueta, so there are risks involved. But this is the kind of compromise that has to be done to build a top team over a couple years with some risks for the short term success, but the cheaper deal in many ways allows more money to other positions.

What is interesting with City, is how thin squad Pep is fine with, this season and last at the least. This is likely to do with keeping the top players happy, having enough game-time over the season. Also you have more money to spend on a single player, when you have less players in the squad.

 

[Farzad]

You got nothing against the points I rose up, just more lying and accusing of things that you have done here with clear evidence for it.

3 starting players injured at the same time for many games, all related to build-up and defending is an injury-crisis. For example if one of them was an attacker, it would be a bit different of how impactful it would be.

I have already explained how our spend wasn't big compared to United, someone else compared to Tottenham. And how sometimes players turn out to be injury-prone or being bad buys, happens to all teams. If we had ~137 million pounds more to spend like United did during the time Arteta has been here, we would not have had ~10 million players on average as backups for these three players. They would have been like 55 million players as an example, or whatever the sum would be. We all would want more to spend but it's not always possible with UEL and FFP.

You're back to the ignore list very soon, all you do is cry and lie and accuse others of what you yourself do.

What are you talking about net spend nonsense. Sp**s has two world class forwards and a veteran team. They also have CL incentive money. Arsenal has a team of babies waiting for first big re up. I have trashed this silly wage argument. We are a touch behind Sp**s who has CL games, a veteran squad, in 6th. Effectively we are tied for 5th because if we got CL and didn’t choke based on CL and incentives we would of been a couple million above Sp**s instead of a touch behind. Our wage bill is not low considering we have youngest squad in Pl.


Injury Crisis? Are you daft? Bozo spent more money and I was yelling for a versatile DM for 30 million ish and we still have Dodgy Tom and F all at DM. That is not an injury crisis that is a bozo manager who is repeating the same mistake that cost us CL last year