4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Versus 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

[Kain]

The snow is killing us with its threats of no football so thought I would post this topic, yea its speculative and has various degrees of ‘what if’ involved & we are not all Anzac formation-machines but it can still create some debate.

So we changed the formation this season from the go at pre-season rather than being forced to change it due to injuries, no we don’t play a set 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 (as Wenger calls it) ALL the time but it seems to of been our weapon of choice this season. My question is at this halfway stage just how big a difference has it made?

Would we have still scored 50+ goals in the league in a 4-4-2, would we still have been stuck against park the bus teams who this season so far have more often than not been soundly beaten & in some cases obliterated, could Song still be getting the accolades he has been getting in recent months or would Diaby have been stuck on the left wing , would our injuries of cost us more severely in the old formation etc.

Just how big a difference do you feel this seasons formation has made so far as opposed to last seasons?

(The ‘Match Day Archives’ section on the forum is a good source to check old match threads & formations from last season etc.)

 

[lee1001]

Re: 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Verses 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

There is the possibility that the formation hasn't been the main reason for this seasons success.

Could it be that Arshavin has created the forward spark and Verm and Gallas have created the stability we needed at the back?

Then there is the emergence of Song and Ramsey. Plus the continued development of Fabregas and RVP into two of the worlds finest players.

 

[Goonereagle]

Re: 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Verses 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

The formation has certainly help Song, because with 4-4-2 he'd have to cover (sprint shedloads of ground) and he isn't a sprint/pitbull. It's helped ease Song in and help him grow to the player he has become.

Also the 4-3-3 helps us because we have so many midfielders. Imagine the amount of quality players we'd have on the bench in a striaghtforward 4-4-2. I don't think we'd have scored as many goals.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Verses 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

There is the possibility that the formation hasn't been the main reason for this seasons success.

Could it be that Arshavin has created the forward spark and Verm and Gallas have created the stability we needed at the back?

I think so too. The formation is an aspect of our improvement this year though. It has brought out the best of players like Cesc, Diaby, Song and Denilson and made us less reliable on a single goalscorer. I think it fits the majority of the team better. If we stick with it I expect the squad to adjust itself within a season or two. Some players will adapt and a few will leave I suspect, but on the whole it's been a healthy change.

 

[Captain]

Re: 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Verses 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

It has helped to solve the problem that was Fabregas and everything else falls into place.

I'm still concerned about a Cesc/someone other than Denilson combination in some games but it has been good so far.

 

[Wenger14]

Re: 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 Verses 4-4-2/4-5-1 halfway point.

Bet I know Anzac's reaction to this!

 

[Kain]

 

[Anzac]

Lol - that's a no brainer.

I've been an advocate for a change to a 433 formation since our injuries in 07/08, and for the very reasons given by Klaus. I've also said ensewhere that IMO it has enabled the improvements as outlined by Goonereagle, and I've also raised my concerns about the 3 CMs as identified by Captain, particularly in regards to quality of supply if Cesc is out or in a more advanced role.

It's NOT Barca style, especially up front, and IMO our patterns of play in defence & attack have not changed at all. I'd like to see some action in this regard, and I'm hoping that it's a case of our injuries as having disrupted the fine tuning of our play.

As Klaus says it's going to take a season or so to bed in with players, particularly in regards to the roles of the front 3 & our cover in certain roles, but it's a shed load better than what we've been persisting with these past seasons. It's not a final solution in it's self, but it's a step in the right direction in removing obstacles regarding team & player levels of performance.

 

[Biggus]

 

[sammy89]

This is one of the classic gifs of all time

 

[fabo]

It's a wonder Wenger never switched to it last season. Easy looking back but there was no way Cesc/Denilson was good enough for a 4-4-2.

Either he made a glaring error then or he simply wouldn't choose between Adebayor and Van Persie for the lone role.

 

[True Gooner]

Maybe it was too much of a shift to make mid way through a season?

It's taken our players some time to get used the 4-3-3 this season and that's after an entire pre-season to iron out the flaws.

 

[Anzac]

Maybe it was too much of a shift to make mid way through a season?

It's taken our players some time to get used the 4-3-3 this season and that's after an entire pre-season to iron out the flaws.

Yet he tried to play 4231 from when AA was bought & even after Cesc & Ade came back, with Cesc in the AM role.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

We did play something that resembled a 4-3-3 at times last season. The principle of the formation was the same at times. We just had too many injuries for it to be a permanent thing.

 

[Anzac]

I still think it was 4231 with 2 holding mids to provide the central core - just as AW's 442s had been built prior to Cesc, as this is why Cesc was tried in the AM role when he cam back from injury. Essentially we still played 4411 but with AA as a starting player we pushed the wide men more forward. I think the decision re 433 was made as a result of Cesc having to drop into midfield to get the ball.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

The principle was still the same (three central mids to get a better core and put more pressure on the other team whenever they were in possession, stopped using midfielders for width, had the centrebacks to understudy the defensive midfield when we attacked to keep the team short). It's no secret that football has been moving towards something resembling a 4-3-3 model for a couple of years now (I'd be surprised if we saw a lot of teams playing 4-4-2 in four or five years) with the emphasis on central midfield, whether teams choose to approach it defensively (4-5-1) or offensively (4-3-3). I don't think the time was right for an english team to play an out and out 4-3-3 last season though. Certainly not with all the players we were missing at least.

 

[qs]

442 vs 433 or 451 vs 4-1-2-1-2 or 343 meets 4-3-1-2 with a free role for attacking midfield playmaking centre forward. Hmmmm...

 

[Anzac]

Agreed.
IMO the shift from 4411/451 to the 433 variant came when AW made the fundamental decision to change from a 2nd forward in the hole & midfielders on the flanks, to having an AM type in the hole & forwards in advanced positions on the flanks.

 

[Anzac]

442 vs 433 or 451 vs 4-1-2-1-2 or 343 meets 4-3-1-2 with a free role for attacking midfield playmaking centre forward. Hmmmm...

Well it IS a thread about formation........ :wink: