A Question Of Starting Loanee's

[sabret00the]

While i know some here are great fans of Baptista and want him to start ahead of both Manu and Robin (maybe not after Manu's goal with how fickle some can be) but anyhoo.

I'm quite adverse to the idea of starting any loanee over one of our own players and while it's looking likely that Baptista might stay, it's far from written in stone with at least me questioning whether he stills fits our plans. Judging by Arsène wanting him as a DMC (source) and the fact we have Neves who is a DMC coming in and the rumour that we put in a late bid for Reo-Coker it makes me question whether or not Baptista does have a role here at Arsenal, at least in midfield.

When you look to the front line, we have our own players who are without a doubt in need of developing, you only need look at the progression of Adebayor. Even if you look at his Arsenal career in isolation, it's easy to see that he is without a doubt developing; his attitude has improved, his work rate improved, his touch improved, his movement improved, his running improved and his Henry-esque finishing (at least attempts). He's clearly here and ready to learn. Is it really right to develop someone who's technically someone elses player over our own?

Needless to say i think it raises great debate, should players like Baptista (loan stars) be limited to substitution roles until they're our property?

 

[jester]

well he's ours properly if we want him, we've agreed a price and baptista has said he wants to stay.
So i see no need to limit him if he'll end up ours. If he does well we'll sign him and this season would be his bedding season, getting used to it all. If he doesnt turn out right then we wont buy him.
Maybe you're right that he doesnt want him as a DM due to the bid of reocoker, and we've got enough cover (is 3 enough? aliadiere doesnt count, he's nowhere at the moment) upfront. Against Manutd he came on as an AM, like freddie did v madrid, sits next to cesc and gilberto, defends well and then bombs foward with the ball.
Wenger's been after him for years, so to say he doesnt know what to do with him is probably a little off, and we'll have to wait and see where he plays him again (my bet would be a sub appearance for cesc or something like that in the middle)

 

[ultimus]

Next year striking force:

Current:

Henry, v.Persie, Adebayor

In:

Baptista (now a loanee), Bendtner

Out:

Aliadiare

Even, if we have 5 strikers.. Baptista can play in 5 man midfield, where other strikers can't.. so we really have 4 true strikers. and I don't see why having 4 strikers is bad. Henry can't score all the time anymore.. it's time to rotate strikers.

 

[jester]

we have depth. baptista can play DM,CM,AM,FW so its good news all round. I know this isnt what you mean sabre, but it really does get on my nerves when people complain about lack of depth, then we sign a player, they complain he'll get in the way or there's no positions free for him blah blah.
He can be a very useful player for us, especially away. His strength is a very welcome addition

 

[TMac]

Next year striking force:

Current:

Henry, v.Persie, Adebayor

In:

Baptista (now a loanee), Bendtner

Out:

Aliadiare

Even, if we have 5 strikers.. Baptista can play in 5 man midfield, where other strikers can't.. so we really have 4 true strikers. and I don't see why having 4 strikers is bad. Henry can't score all the time anymore.. it's time to rotate strikers.

put lupoli in for the next year also

 

[qs]

It shouldn't matter that he's aloanee. We should play our best players be the you or old, loanees or permenant players.

 

[sobi_gonner]

Don’t think BEAST will leave us but your thread did made realize that he is on loan right now but I reckon AW knows very well what should be done. I believe we need a player like BEAST especially after watching us muscled out in few games we lost last season. If BEAST will go after spending his time on loan but still he can’t get any benefit some where else as we have very different playing style. The debate of keeping so many players doesn’t make sense to me because now days too much football is being played so we must have big squad to compete with other rivals.

 

[Clrnc]

i don't care if he is a loanee. as long as he can help us score goals its ok. furthermore its almost confirmed he is ours

 

[YeahBee]

If we play better with him in the team then he should start and he is very useful if we will see more of the 4-5-1 formation all around the palce now. Ade and RVp will jsut have to up their game if Arsène gives Baptista a chance.

If we weren't to play him why did we get him in the first place?

 

[asajoseph]

I wouldn't want him starting if there was an intention or probability that he'll be heading back to Real at the end of the season no matter how he performs - as it is, I don't think that's the case. Effectively, the substance of the deal is that he's our player. As a result, this, for me, is a non-issue.

 

[Zico]

Ultimus mentioned Bendtner. I think we should refer to him in deciding how we deal with Baptista.

Bendtner, Muamba and Larrsson have been key contributors to Birmingham's success this season. Steve Bruce knows that he won't have all three for long, but they will help him return to the promised land so they're typically amongst the first names on his team sheet. We should treat Baptista similarly. If we feel we can have a winning squad with him, then we should play him a lot. I'd rather we lost Baptista to Real at the end of the season after he'd played a big role in returning the title to Highbury, than not see him contribute much with the promise of keeping him in future.

 

[yonatan]

Muamba hasn't been getting that many minutes over at Brum. By the way, I think you meant bringing the title to the Grove.

 

[Zico]

Muamba hasn't been getting that many minutes over at Brum. By the way, I think you meant bringing the title to the Grove.

Ha. You're right. I did mean the Grove. And noted on Muamba. To be honest, the only two Brum games I watched in their entirety were in the first fortnight of the Championship and I was impressed with our guys' contributions. Haven't seen any in the last couple of weeks...

 

[phenn]

It's like when our boys go out on loan. if managers had that attitude what would be the point. At brum people are saying the same thing, that even if Bendtner is better than everyone else if he's gone at Christmas then why should they play him. I see your logic making sense if it's obvious we won't keep him and we have nothing to play for with like two games left in the season, but that's about it. Play our best players.

Besides which it's technically a loan thing but I'm pretty sure it'll be permanent, Baptista didn't really fit at Real Madrid and God knows Reyes isn't coming back.

 

[IBL]

Wenger will (and rightly so) play Baptista as he sees fit. Even if a player is here on loan he should be treated as a normal member of staff (like a permanent employee) as this will allow the manager to see how he integrates and gels with the team and more importantly how he performs out on the pitch, all of which is of the upmost importance if theres a chance the player will get signed.

End of the day, Wenger should use any loanee in a way that will benefit the team. I'd imagine all other loanees for any other team are used in the same way otherwise whats the point in them being there.

 

[asajoseph]

Ultimus mentioned Bendtner. I think we should refer to him in deciding how we deal with Baptista.

Bendtner, Muamba and Larrsson have been key contributors to Birmingham's success this season. Steve Bruce knows that he won't have all three for long, but they will help him return to the promised land so they're typically amongst the first names on his team sheet. We should treat Baptista similarly. If we feel we can have a winning squad with him, then we should play him a lot. I'd rather we lost Baptista to Real at the end of the season after he'd played a big role in returning the title to Highbury, than not see him contribute much with the promise of keeping him in future.

Again, I feel that the two situations are very different. Birmingham are a club who know that, no matter what happens this year, the chances of them holding onto Bendtner are slim to none. With Baptista, this situation's different - Real cannot (as far as I understand it) simply recall him if they want him back, an eventual buyout has been agreed and essentially it is entirely up to us whether or not he stays. Therefore, he is, whilst not technically, for all intents and purposes in the same situation as any other player fully contracted to the club, other than that we have a termination option in his contract.

 

[Realwood]

Baptista has already taken shots at Real Madrid in the press. I think it is safe to say he is ours. He is a Gunner now, we should treat him as one and I think Wenger will. He's just being eased into the line-up, he'll get his games.

 

[shaz]

baptista could have scored at old trafford... just needs a few games imo to get used to the system and then youll see him fire in 30yarders like rosicky on a regular basis.

 

[Phillips]

if he's good enough he deserves to start, regardless if he's on loan or heading back to Real Madrid

 

[patrick42uk]

sabre, by the way, if you take the whole article into consideration rather than just 'he can be a great dmc', you'll find that wenger meant dmc in the vieira sense rather than the gilberto sense.