Cesc Fàbregas (Out)

[outlaw_member]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Shue is acting like a child, or is just being plain old stubborn because he is wrong. I presume it's the latter. It's also clear that he managed to misunderstand me, because when I said that Wenger had bought top players, I was referring to the quality of the players in question -which is surely what matters when it comes assessing how they affected Bergkamp- not their reputation. It seems to me that Shue had understood that statement as me saying that Wenger had bought high profile signings, which is clearly not the same thing.

I said that Wenger had bought top players to surround Bergkamp with, and the last time I checked, they were all top players. It's completely irrelevant what reputation they had prior to signing, because this entire debate is about how Bergkamp was supplemented with great quality, whilst Fabregas wasn't, and as far as I'm aware, that great quality was a result of their ability as players, not their frigging reputation.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Idiot.

Lobby standard poster now.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka

Your words.

Incorrect words.

They were NOT top players when bought.

I corrected you and YOU didn't like being wrong, not the other way round.

Go loot something you disgrace of a human being.

 

[truth_hurts]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I dont get all this "all the best to Cesc" malarky and frankly I think its hyprocritical. What he did to this club is worse that what Adebayor did.

I understand his frustrations as I share them as well. He clearly doesn't believe in Wenger project and i'm sure he ain't the only 1 in the squad.

 

[Accomplished]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I actually agree with Outlaw on this. Whilst they weren't top players when purchased, they delivered very quickly and Bergkamp did not have to wait long at all to start winning things. That's the point he is making.

 

[burnsjed]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

To be honest, this thread is serving absolutely no purpose now.
He has gone, it might as well be closed.
The only purpose it is serving is for us to fight with one another.
Whether you think Cesc is/was a legend is really irrelevant.

What can't, or shouldn't, be questioned, is he put in many top quality performances in for the club during his time, some are disappointed by his departure, we are all disappointed with the transfer fee that is being thrown around, and distraught by how late in the transfer window this has all been played out.

But if the money from both his and Nasri's departure are sensibly invested in the club, and by sensibly I mean addressing our needs, and not shopping at the local shrift shop!
The club has a cloud hanging over it right now, but it won't take an awful lot to let the sun shine through again.

 

[truth_hurts]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

To be honest, this thread is serving absolutely no purpose now.
He has gone, it might as well be closed.
The only purpose it is serving is for us to fight with one another.
Whether you think Cesc is/was a legend is really irrelevant.

What can't, or shouldn't, be questioned, is he put in many top quality performances in for the club during his time, some are disappointed by his departure, we are all disappointed with the transfer fee that is being thrown around, and distraught by how late in the transfer window this has all been played out.

But if the money from both his and Nasri's departure are sensibly invested in the club, and by sensibly I mean addressing our players, and not shopping at the local shrift shop!
The club has a cloud hanging over it right now, but it won't take an awful lot to let the sun shine through again.

That I think is the hope every gooner has. However talented Mr. Fabregas is he is just 1 player, 3 stellar signings and we can definitely come out of this stronger.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I actually agree with Outlaw on this. Whilst they weren't top players when purchased, they delivered very quickly and Bergkamp did not have to wait long at all to start winning things. That's the point he is making.

Might be the point he's TRYING to make, but it's not what he ****ing posted, is it?

 

[irishgunnerz]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Out.Accomplished - easy to say they delivered quickly but in the current situation, fans arent likely to give what they perceive to be less than 'top players' time to actually deliver.

Pires has an average first season. Henry and Bergkamp actually started first nine-ten games quite slowly from memory. At the minute I don't think people here have that patience and would be on their back from the get-go because they want a 'name'

Look at Cambell, Gervinho etc...people were instantly dismissing Gervinho for example (despite never/rarely having seen him play) simply because they wanted Hazard while Campbell was pretty much dismissed.

I remember when Alonso was linked many here were saying nooo he wouldnt fit in, he's not what we were looking for etc etc yet now suddenly the same people say it was a devastating mistake not to get him. Likewise Ahsley Young - when we were linked people here were turning up their nose yet suddenly now that Utd signed him, they're showing 'ambition' and are 'not afraid to spend'.

Fans are, by their nature, a band of hypocrites (myself included). It is getting worse though as fans are far less patient than they were when Wenger arrived and brought in the likes of Petit, Anelka, Overmars etc. They have the luxury of changing their mind instantly and then dismissing their previous conviction out of hand. Clubs on the other hand do not have that luxury.

 

[Accomplished]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

irish, I don't think it's an argument about fan perception, more about player perception, and player patience. Fabregas waited a considerably long time and yet nothing materalized in terms of top class signings (or even average signings that turned into top class players). I think the point that is being made is simply that Bergkamp, although he had to wait a little while, didn't have to wait for the best part of 8 years, and no one knows what he would have done if he had been in Fabregas' position. If players see signings being made which they see as progressive, even if they don't deliver for a season or two, they will be more likely to stick around.

Look at Nasri. The guy has absolutely zero patience and has seemingly buggered off as soon as a better offer has appeared. In a very similar position a number of years ago, Fabregas stuck around to try and lead the club to glory rather than jumping ship. He was more patient.

Anyway, this whole thing seems to be an overblown argument about the way Cesc should be remembered, which is a personal choice. I believe that, if he had been provided with appropriate personnel, Cesc could have been one of our greatest ever players, and he would probably still be here.

If you want to make a comparison between Fabregas and Bergkamp, consider the players that started to produce for the club after their intial, somewhat underwhelming, signings. Players such as Flamini and Adebayor (even Hleb, and now Nasri) finally seemed to come good, then left rapidly. As a fan, I can't say it was too devastating to get rid of some of those players, but you can imagine how frustrating it must have been for Cesc to see quality players leaving all around him, just as they had started to get closer to winning something. The same did not happen when Overmars, Petit, Vieira, all started to come good.

That's all I'll say. The argument is somewhat circular and I don't think it's being fully understood. Choose to remember or appreciate cesc in whatever way you see fit, he no longer plays for the club, so there's no sacred need to support him.

 

[P_Gunner]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Seriously, half of you need to grow the **** up. Firstly to Shue, outlaw is bang on correct. Bergkamp was surrounded by quality world class players, Fabregas has been surrounded by **** for 5 years now. Outlaw made a mistake in saying that Wenger bought great players to surround him - but there's no need to capitalize on a single mistake he made in his post when you know what the point he was trying to convey is. Although Wenger bought relatively unknown players to surround Bergkamp, they played at a high level almost immediately. Bergkamp really only had to play with a weak squad for 1 season.

Fabregas on the other hand only got to play with a strong squad when he was 17. For the past 5 years he has been surrounded by mediocre players such as Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Eboue etc. getting games week in week out no matter what mistakes they made. Fabregas has literally carried this team for years giving 100% week in week out for his entire duration here. Had Bergkamp been in the same situation would he have stayed? I have no clue, but Bergkamp's duration during the club was a very successful one and he was also getting on in age so he had no reason to leave.

As for run, seriously - grow the **** up. Anyone bashing Fabregas and saying he doesn't love the club is blind and hasn't watched him these past few years. Anyone that believes the rumors that Fabregas actually paid money out of his pocket to leave the club is as dumb as those that seriously think Tevez would come to Arsenal. Fabregas wanted to go to Barcelona, no doubt, and in my opinion he had a valid reason to do so. He wants to win trophies, everyone does, and he won't be able to do so unless Wenger strengthens the squad - something Wenger has made obvious that he refuses to do. If we are trophyless this season as well RVP could be next on the line to leave - are you all going to belittle him then and turn on him like the fickle people you are? In fact, RVP already stated about a year or 2 ago that Arsenal needs to win trophies or he may move on... or have you conveniently forgotten that?

Fabregas handled this transfer respectfully - like he should have. He sat back and let the people upstairs deal with all the formalities. He didn't get involved by going to the press or trying to force his way out - thats the way it should be done and he should be commended for it; not slated. He's nothing like Adebayor and "Beyonce" or Hleb and his "Barca only comes calling once". He sat down quietly and he allowed the club to take its time to make the deal go through.

And to anyone who thinks Fabregas made the backheel against Barca mistake purposely - you're the dumbest of them all. Everyone makes mistakes, Cesc just unfortunately made one at a wrong time. If you think he had no commitment during that game then go look for the ****ing distance he ran. When he was substituted he was one of the people that ran the most, closing down all game and trying his hardest to get things going.

Show the man some respect. I'm not happy to be losing our best player either but that's no excuse to act like a fickle asshole.

 

[Invincible]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

We're going to miss him big time. It's Wenger who should have gone, not Fabregas. Make no mistake, we're losing one hell of a player here. He was the reason why we still had hope, with him gone there's no hope unless we go out and buy a couple of world-class players, which we won't as the fool in charge probably thinks Rosicky and Ramsey are the answer.

 

[AFC-Phil]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

...

I agree with most of this.

It's nice to see a post that hasn't been tainted with agendas re: Cesc.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

stuff

You cannot be 'bang on' and make mistakes at the same time. I never disputed the quality of player Bergkamp ended up playing with, I pointed out the discrepancy with his post. Big difference.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Fairly obvious what his point was, you either don't understand it or you're just being a tw*t.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

**** yourself, he was trying to imply Wenger had done something different with Cesc when the only difference was he didn't get lucky with the punts he took like he did with that crop of signings, and my point was equally obvious, and you either didn't understand it or you're being an argumentative tw*t.

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Seriously, half of you need to grow the **** up. Firstly to Shue, outlaw is bang on correct. Bergkamp was surrounded by quality world class players, Fabregas has been surrounded by **** for 5 years now. Outlaw made a mistake in saying that Wenger bought great players to surround him - but there's no need to capitalize on a single mistake he made in his post when you know what the point he was trying to convey is. Although Wenger bought relatively unknown players to surround Bergkamp, they played at a high level almost immediately. Bergkamp really only had to play with a weak squad for 1 season.

Fabregas on the other hand only got to play with a strong squad when he was 17. For the past 5 years he has been surrounded by mediocre players such as Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Eboue etc. getting games week in week out no matter what mistakes they made. Fabregas has literally carried this team for years giving 100% week in week out for his entire duration here. Had Bergkamp been in the same situation would he have stayed? I have no clue, but Bergkamp's duration during the club was a very successful one and he was also getting on in age so he had no reason to leave.

As for run, seriously - grow the **** up. Anyone bashing Fabregas and saying he doesn't love the club is blind and hasn't watched him these past few years. Anyone that believes the rumors that Fabregas actually paid money out of his pocket to leave the club is as dumb as those that seriously think Tevez would come to Arsenal. Fabregas wanted to go to Barcelona, no doubt, and in my opinion he had a valid reason to do so. He wants to win trophies, everyone does, and he won't be able to do so unless Wenger strengthens the squad - something Wenger has made obvious that he refuses to do. If we are trophyless this season as well RVP could be next on the line to leave - are you all going to belittle him then and turn on him like the fickle people you are? In fact, RVP already stated about a year or 2 ago that Arsenal needs to win trophies or he may move on... or have you conveniently forgotten that?

Fabregas handled this transfer respectfully - like he should have. He sat back and let the people upstairs deal with all the formalities. He didn't get involved by going to the press or trying to force his way out - thats the way it should be done and he should be commended for it; not slated. He's nothing like Adebayor and "Beyonce" or Hleb and his "Barca only comes calling once". He sat down quietly and he allowed the club to take its time to make the deal go through.

And to anyone who thinks Fabregas made the backheel against Barca mistake purposely - you're the dumbest of them all. Everyone makes mistakes, Cesc just unfortunately made one at a wrong time. If you think he had no commitment during that game then go look for the ******* distance he ran. When he was substituted he was one of the people that ran the most, closing down all game and trying his hardest to get things going.

Show the man some respect. I'm not happy to be losing our best player either but that's no excuse to act like a fickle *******.

Couldn't agree more. Football fans by our very nature are thoroughly fickle, impartial short-termists. The Internet just happens to have magnified it.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

No no i insist, you go **** yourself.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

:roll:

 

[caek]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

@P_Gunner

Great post mate. Agree with almost everything you mentioned.