Cesc Fàbregas (Out)

[outlaw_member]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

That's only because we won trophies, and only after Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team. Do you think Bergkamp would have stayed had we won nothing during his time, and he had to contend with everyone being lesser than him?

 

[dpt49]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

That's only because we won trophies, and only after Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team. Do you think Bergkamp would have stayed had we won nothing during his time, and he had to contend with everyone being lesser than him?

In my eyes everyone was lesser than him :wink:





But I get your point

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

That's only because we won trophies, and only after Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team. Do you think Bergkamp would have stayed had we won nothing during his time, and he had to contend with everyone being lesser than him?

When we signed them;

Vieira: nobody
Petit: LB who got converted to CM by Wenger
Overmars: Crock who many thought would be a flop and retire early
Anelka: 17 yr old kid

They became quality under Wenger, they weren't signed as quality. Overmars was the only genuinely famous one of the four, although Petit had a bit of a reputation as a decent defender.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Exactly Shue. Made a similar point several times before but I think with the situation as it stands fans are too frustrated to think of it logically.

Which is fair enough, it's been a frustrating off season for everyone - at least we can do talking on the pitch now

 

[brady_style]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

That's only because we won trophies, and only after Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team. Do you think Bergkamp would have stayed had we won nothing during his time, and he had to contend with everyone being lesser than him?

When we signed them;

Vieira: nobody
Petit: LB who got converted to CM by Wenger
Overmars: Crock who many thought would be a flop and retire early
Anelka: 17 yr old kid

They became quality under Wenger, they weren't signed as quality. Overmars was the only genuinely famous one of the four, although Petit had a bit of a reputation as a decent defender.

They might have been unheard of when they arrived ( bar Overmars ) but it was hugely evident that they were top top players after just one or two games.

The situation Fabregas has to deal with is different. We have had for years a problem with our CB's and our GK. Fabregas must have felt absolutely furious last season when we collapsed yet again due to weaknesses in the team that should have been fixed years ago.

I sympathise with Fabregas. Imagine how it must feel to give everything year in year out and to be not given the required support by your manager.

Wenger has failed the likes of RVP and Cesc.

He's lost Cesc. This is his last chance with RVP.

Sign a quality CB and we'll finish fourth.

Sign a quality CB and an amazing striker and a decent DM and we could win the league.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Let's not forget Cesc contributed directly to our collapse with his assist for Barca.

 

[dpt49]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

That's only because we won trophies, and only after Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team. Do you think Bergkamp would have stayed had we won nothing during his time, and he had to contend with everyone being lesser than him?

When we signed them;

Vieira: nobody
Petit: LB who got converted to CM by Wenger
Overmars: Crock who many thought would be a flop and retire early
Anelka: 17 yr old kid

They became quality under Wenger, they weren't signed as quality. Overmars was the only genuinely famous one of the four, although Petit had a bit of a reputation as a decent defender.

They might have been unheard of when they arrived ( bar Overmars ) but it was hugely evident that they were top top players after just one or two games.

The situation Fabregas has to deal with is different. We have had for years a problem with our CB's and our GK. Fabregas must have felt absolutely furious last season when we collapsed yet again due to weaknesses in the team that should have been fixed years ago.

I sympathise with Fabregas. Imagine how it must feel to give everything year in year out and to be not given the required support by your manager.

Wenger has failed the likes of RVP and Cesc.

He's lost Cesc. This is his last chance with RVP.

Sign a quality CB and we'll finish fourth.

Sign a quality CB and an amazing striker and a decent DM and we could win the league.

We've known this for a few seasons now.

When I say we, I of course mean everyone except Wenger

 

[run]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Seriously...what's with all the starf**king?

This guy is a brat that led our club to countless collapses during the most disappointing era in recent memory. (Not the worst era, I know, but most disappointing because we were obviously close).

I know most of the blame for our failures falls on Wenger for not strengthening the side, but Cesc isn't blameless.

He's obviously not a leader, he's a front runner who's left us when we need him most. He doesn't deserve your love, support, or your thanks -- maybe if he'd actually helped us win anything.

I support Arsenal players, not pu**ies who don't want to be here.

Please demote this guy. What a clown. This is a player who has played through injuries, who single-handedly brought us through seasons, like in 09/10 (20 goals, 20 assists).

He has created the most chances in the last 5 years among top leagues. More than Xavi, Gerrard, Lampard.

Has got the most assists as well in the last 5 years.

He has scored goals to Sp**s, Milan, Man Utd, Liverpool, Juventus, etc.

He almost won us the league in 07/08, and did huge steps to do it in 09/10 as well, but he can't do it alone. So what? He has his place in Arsenal's history book.

Ha! I suppose you'd try to get me carded 'cause you don't like the way I tackle too. Demote me 'cause I don't get all misty eyed that dude is leaving? I'm supposed to love the guy 'cause he's talented? He's led us in assists, scored some goals? Please.

I love Arsenal, and he doesn't -- at least not enough to stay and fight for the shirt. And it seems a simple conclusion to draw that if he's so eager to quit now, maybe he's part of why this team has quit so easily with him at its heart.

His place is Arsenal history is as a talented guy who quit -- he's not a legend, a hero. He's a disappointment, at best.

Oh, and piss off.

 

[outlaw_member]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

When we signed them;

Vieira: nobody
Petit: LB who got converted to CM by Wenger
Overmars: Crock who many thought would be a flop and retire early
Anelka: 17 yr old kid

They became quality under Wenger, they weren't signed as quality. Overmars was the only genuinely famous one of the four, although Petit had a bit of a reputation as a decent defender.

Nonsense, it has nothing to do with their reputation, and everything to do with how they produced instantly from the off, and the extent of their contributions to the team. Overmars and Petit were title winners in their first season. Anelka became a superstar almost overnight, and Vieira made his mark within 10 minutes of his debut match. The famous five were established high profile players. There was no waiting around for players to develop. The quality of our side was completely transformed from the team that finished 5th in 96/97, to the team that won the Double in 97/98, in only two years.

Bergkamp was surrounded by players like Seaman, Adams, Keown, Campbell, Vieira, Petit, Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg, Henry, Anelka and Wright. Those were all top class players who were successful at the club.

Fabregas was surrounded by players like Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Flamini, Denilson, Song, Hleb, Rosicky, Reyes, Arshavin, Nasri, van Persie and Adebayor. Most of those players weren't successful at the club.

It's so obvious that Bergkamp had a great side built around him, and that it's because of the entire side (obviously, including himself) that he was part of a successful period and had no reason to leave, which positively affected his legacy. Whilst, Cesc's moments came during a barren spell within sides that were relatively weak, thus negatively affecting how his time at Arsenal is perceived. An individual can't be held accountable for the failings of a team, unless he was directly responsible. Bergkamp in Cesc's place would not have stopped Clichy from brainfarting, or Denilson from jogging, or whatever else.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

You said Wenger bought top quality, they were not signed as top quality, don't be obtuse.

Actually, just forget it. You're a tool lately. Not worth my time.

 

[kooldawg]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

Well all the best to Cesc, he really did give us fans and the club a lot of things to cheer about. Lets remember his contributions to the club instead of demeaning him and hurling about personal insults. A good part of our recent success and playing style has been because of Cesc, we can argue all we want about him jumping ship, but in the end he has been a pretty loyal player for the club and we must appreciate his contribution and tireless efforts to bring success to the club only to be let down by his team mates on countless occasions.

 

[patrick42uk]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I dont get all this "all the best to Cesc" malarky and frankly I think its hyprocritical. What he did to this club is worse that what Adebayor did.

 

[jay-d]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I dont get all this "all the best to Cesc" malarky and frankly I think its hyprocritical. What he did to this club is worse that what Adebayor did.

Thank you.

 

[Mastadon]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

What are you on about? He said many times that he wanted to go back to Barca one day. He was honest and upfront about it from the start and he has never said anything to disrespect the club. How could you compare him to Adebayor? I dont think you appreciate how lucky we have been to have him for all this time when you consider the lack of ambition shown by the club.

 

[outlaw_member]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

You said Wenger bought top quality, they were not signed as top quality, don't be obtuse.

Actually, just forget it. You're a tool lately. Not worth my time.

Are you kidding me? They WERE top quality. So are you saying that they weren't top quality? Their reputation is completely irrelevant, and besides the point. It's the quality of the players he bought around Bergkamp which is what matters, not their ****ing reputation. How this is even being questioned is beyond me, yet I'm the tool that's being obtuse. Don't be upset just because your 'argument' failed before it could even take shape.

What bit of 'Wenger had bought top players like Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka to elevate the quality of the team around Bergkamp' is untrue or inaccurate? YOU don't be obtuse.

 

[Shue]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

I despair. You used to be such a decent poster.

 

[burnsjed]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

outlaw, I am not sure you are even reading what he is saying.
You originally posted that Wenger 'bought' quality players to supplement Bergkamp, and didn't do the say with Fabregas.
Shue has pointed out that those players were not quality when purchased, or had questions surrounding their ability to play going forward (regarding Overmars)
In Sue's argument, Wengers policy has not changed, but quite clearly the end product did.

On a side note some of the comments on here are mind blowing to be honest.

 

[Freagle]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

And now we fight amongst ourselves

 

[Freagle]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

http://my.picresize.com/RYXRWJ6CJO/0LQJ4EZHC0O8RIDP2DZB

 

[Godsend_Gooner]

Re: Cesc Fabregas

What's this sudden Cesc hate? He is one of the best players that have every played in this shirt and for me he will always be a legend.

He wants to leave, and he has done so in a cordial way. He has kept absolute mum in the press, instead of behaving like a Modric. All these stupid theories of him paying out of his pocket are just stories and is the stupid media trying to have a go at everything. Wenger never plays players who he thinks will not be there at the start of the season and hence Fabregas did not train (If he really did have that injury). It would be foolish to assume that he went on strike and refused to train.

So where's the hate for him emanating? Are you guys really angry at Barcelona's antics and Wenger's handling of the situation and are firing the anger at Fabregas?

I am generally not disrespectful but those of you who believe that because he has not won trophies, he should not be considered as a legend are fools of the highest order. Wenger made him the captain and those of you who believe he is not captain material should direct their anger somewhere else.

His attitude for the shirt has been always top notch.