EPL – Stoke vs Arsenal – 1:30pm – 26/8/12 - SS1

[Accomplished]

Think Theo tried the "chalk on his boots" tactic last season and got completely ignored most of the time.

 

[outlaw_member]

Completely agree. No-one at Arsenal likes to get chalk on his boots, so to speak. I'd almost prefer to see Walcott and Gervinho pushed up as high and as wide as possible, not get involved in the build up play and hit the space when it appears. There's no point having them if you aren't going to use them correctly, but if you get either of them one on one with a full-back then they're potentially terrific - Walcott for sheer pace and Gervinho for trickery.

This is definitely something we ought to do, but Wenger doesn't want to restrict his wide forwards, or any of his players for that matter. If Gervinho and Walcott performed the same role as Barcelona's wide players, in that they were positionally rigidized, their weaknesses would be less exposed.

However, it always boils down to one thing, the fullbacks. As long as we have fullbacks who aren't able to advance the play effectively enough, then our wide players will have to drop deeper in order to help move the ball forward. This is why the fullbacks are so god-damn important to our game. We can't push our wide forwards higher up the pitch and employ a true front three, if Jenkinson and Gibbs are constantly in need of their support.

Think about it like this, say we instructed Gervinho to stay right up his flank in line with Giroud. He's now in a position where he will have little involvement in the build up play, and also be in a more dangerous position to affect the final third. However, Sagna has collected the ball inside his own half and is now stuck, because he can't dribble his way down the flank, nor does he have the quality to combine with his midfielders to progress further up the pitch. Therefore, leaving Gervinho no choice but to drop deeper on the pitch to support Sagna, and complete render the aforementioned instruction of remaining high and wide as utterly pointless.

 

[born slippy]

Ive been thinking for a long while that our wide 2 of the front three are rarely ever effective enough. Thats why with this current set of players I feel a change of formation is required. Poldi and Giroud on their own up top are going to look increasingly isolated in this league and would not be able to carry the front line as rvp did. play them both up top together and i feel they could gel and become a very useful partnership, but this would mean going back to 2 old style wide men who can cross a ball and put a shift in (Adam Johnson anyone??). I think next to an out and out defensive mid a decent wide man would improve our style of play better than any other position. someone like Jesus Navas may be good.

 

[evoh_1]

What i like is that verms gets ****ed up by these clubber trolls and the whole of the squad looks around like nothing has happened. can you imagine that happening when vieira and or adams were around?

This squad is soft as ****e and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

Apart from that at least we haven't let in a goal so far which is a postitive.

 

[redanddread]

Just got back from a long weekend away, anyone care to summarise the match for me?

i.e. Was it a 0-0 where we dominated but just couldn't put it away, or did we dominate without creating anything of any note?

What players performed? What players disapointed?

Also who played where?

cheers all

Just so you get an alternative opinion on certain aspects of the game.

1. We dominated the game
2. We were very solid defensively
3. We created little due to ineffectiveness in the final 1/3rd
4. Arteta & Cazorla were stand out players
5. Contrary to many others I thought Diaby played very well alongside Arteta and provided much needed defensive protection to our back 4.
6. Stoke were even more route one than normal-all they did all game was lob long high balls unto our back 4 and we dealt with this tactic very well (for a change). All game! They also defended well.
7. Probably for the 1st time in ages we were not physically intimidated or overawed by Stoke. We had big boys of our own out there.
8. Our front 3 did not gel well at all and an understanding between them has to be developed. (soon).
9. We passed the ball well but just couldn't create much in the final 1/3rd.
10. As a team we looked solid and there was a better rhythm to our play.

 

[redanddread]

What i like is that verms gets ****** up by these clubber trolls and the whole of the squad looks around like nothing has happened. can you imagine that happening when vieira and or adams were around?

This squad is soft as **** and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

Apart from that at least we haven't let in a goal so far which is a postitive.

I think Diaby & Gervinho were the only two players who went to confront the ref re the tackle on TV5. However, we know from experience that retaliation can prove to be ill advised.

The fact that we were able to impose our style on this type of game proves (to me) that we were brave & strong enough to put the ball on the floor knowing the potential physical impairment we might incur. Physically & mentally we were well Ok in this game and I disagree completely with your assessment.

"This squad is soft as **** and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

What was it you wanted our players to do?

Personally I think the real thugs are in the stands at The Britannia.

 

[redanddread]

Interesting how both Arsène & Pooh-Lis have recently been respectful towards each other and their teams yet the media will not let the rivalry/bad blood between Arsenal and Stoke die down. Good old media for you-guess the rivalry sells papers. Don't think the match gets as much headlines as when Stoke come to The Emirates-it's got something to with us heading to Mordor and facing the hordes on their home patch.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/stoke-city/9498168/Arsène-Wengers-whining-can-never-alter-the-Tony-Pulis-survival-plan-for-Stoke-City.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -City.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2193630/Arsenal-boss-Arsène-Wenger-Tony-Pulis-dirty-war-words.html?ito=feeds-newsxml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ds-newsxml</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8024389/Pulis-Arsenal-row-uncontrollable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ntrollable</a>

 

[evoh_1]

"This squad is soft as **** and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

What was it you wanted our players to do?

Personally I think the real thugs are in the stands at The Britannia.

I meant that the refs don't blow for fouls or give out cards unless we get a horror tackle, and to be honest they get to take liberties generally while one errant foul from us often pulls out a yellow. My bad on missing the don't in there.

I'd like to see our players get in there face a bit a whatever to the cavemen in the stands we should impose ourselves whene away from home to say don't mess about. At the moment we look like a soft touch and expect that we should be able to play our passing game anywhere without earning the right to do so by matching them on the clubbing stakes.

 

[redanddread]

"This squad is soft as **** and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

What was it you wanted our players to do?

Personally I think the real thugs are in the stands at The Britannia.

I meant that the refs don't blow for fouls or give out cards unless we get a horror tackle, and to be honest they get to take liberties generally while one errant foul from us often pulls out a yellow. My bad on missing the don't in there.

I'd like to see our players get in there face a bit a whatever to the cavemen in the stands we should impose ourselves whene away from home to say don't mess about. At the moment we look like a soft touch and expect that we should be able to play our passing game anywhere without earning the right to do so by matching them on the clubbing stakes.

Yes, you have to earn the right to play our passing game but without having to resort to clubbing them back, I think we did that by being brave in the tackle and willing to play the game we know best. Remember Diaby & Gervinho both got sent off last season and Song got a 3 match suspension for retaliation, all against teams trying to intimidate us. We didn't receive a yellow card in the match against Stoke and that (to me) doesn't show softness, it shows restraint & intelligence in knowing how to handle yourself whilst the other team is trying to wind you up. Stoke is venue that calls for cool heads in battle IMO.

 

[phenn]

"This squad is soft as **** and we need to get a bit of grit back to stop us being treated like crap up in the north where the refs just blow the whistle unless someone tries to stab our players.

What was it you wanted our players to do?

Personally I think the real thugs are in the stands at The Britannia.

I meant that the refs don't blow for fouls or give out cards unless we get a horror tackle, and to be honest they get to take liberties generally while one errant foul from us often pulls out a yellow. My bad on missing the don't in there.

I'd like to see our players get in there face a bit a whatever to the cavemen in the stands we should impose ourselves whene away from home to say don't mess about. At the moment we look like a soft touch and expect that we should be able to play our passing game anywhere without earning the right to do so by matching them on the clubbing stakes.

I don't know about afters and all that but I thought we knocked them down just about as much as they knocked us down to be honest. Giroud, Diaby, Verm, Mertesacker, even Jenkinson and Ox when he came on all looked up for it from a physicality standpoint, and I may be missing on a few. Especially in the first half we were out muscling them pretty well.

In fact I kept thinking the entire time "God I would have killed for this muscle in the side the last couple years."

 

[Jury]

There's no way that was going to be given.

Wasn't the defender falling over? How was he supposed to brace himself if his hands weren't where they were.

If any official sees it, it's given - simple as that. He wasn't falling and, in any case, that excuse wouldn't cut it given how close Pod was and how likely it would have resulted in a goal.

That it was was missed by all the officials in real time is understandable, but on another day we probably get the penalty.

 

[redanddread]

There's no way that was going to be given.

Wasn't the defender falling over? How was he supposed to brace himself if his hands weren't where they were.

If any official sees it, it's given - simple as that. He wasn't falling and, in any case, that excuse wouldn't cut it given how close Pod was and how likely it would have resulted in a goal.

That it was was missed by all the officials in real time is understandable, but on another day we probably get the penalty.

Using your argument, on any other day the officials would likely miss it in real time again. Maybe if the EPL had officials behind the goal as in Serie A (or TV replay) we might have got that call. TBH it happened so fast that it needed slow motion replay to spot the infringement.

Did any of our players even appeal for a PK?

 

[eye4goal]

However, it always boils down to one thing, the fullbacks. As long as we have fullbacks who aren't able to advance the play effectively enough, then our wide players will have to drop deeper in order to help move the ball forward.

Jenkinson played like a 3rd CB most of the time. Look at the space he should be running into!



I think Gervinho(circled) is part of the problem too. He is not looking to get into goal-scoring positions and is playing more like a wide midfielder. Last season he played more like a forward, he was getting into good positions and missing, but he looks one dimensional so far. It makes our shape more 4-5-1 and isolates Giroud.

 

[Jury]

Using your argument, on any other day the officials would likely miss it in real time again. Maybe if the EPL had officials behind the goal as in Serie A (or TV replay) we might have got that call. TBH it happened so fast that it needed slow motion replay to spot the infringement.

Did any of our players even appeal for a PK?

More in hope than expectation, which is why I said we'd 'probably' get the pen.

Regarding whether we appealed enough, I don't recall we did, which is why I said further back that I'm surprised more wasn't made of it, from Pod or anyone else. He might have held his hand up half-arsed and turned to the ref, but I can't be sure. I can't find those highlights anywhere.

 

[Rain Dance]

101 greatgoals should have it. I posted the link for Anzac last page.

 

[perspolis]

BBC: "Manchester City have failed to win in all five Premier League visits to Stoke, drawing each of their last four 1-1"


We are too harsh on Arsène, his tactics and his team. We always claim the 3 points when they visit the Emirates... but always either draw them or lose away.

Is the criticism of not having a plan "B" against teams that park the bus justified really? If the league champions can't get more than a point form a team like Stoke why should Arsenal?

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

It's not just City and Arsenal that struggle against Stoke, I believe Chelski have drawn their last 3 visits there, and Tottenham suffered defeat there last season. They are generally tough to defeat, but against us they tend to step it up purely because they hate us.

Which I reckon is down to Mr. Pulis. The ****.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

I think we were finding out feet against Stoke, not yet quite gelled. If we played them at their ground now we'd beat them imo

 

[RUS arsenal]

I think we were finding out feet against Stoke, not yet quite gelled. If we played them at their ground now we'd beat them imo

I agree, our attack was out of sync for Sunderland and Stoke. The fact that they parked the bus didn't help matters. At Ant-field the left and center found a connection, now if Giroud and the right can join in, we'd be absolutely lethal.

 

[leo_ense]

I think we were finding out feet against Stoke, not yet quite gelled. If we played them at their ground now we'd beat them imo

I agree, our attack was out of sync for Sunderland and Stoke. The fact that they parked the bus didn't help matters. At Ant-field the left and center found a connection, now if Giroud and the right can join in, we'd be absolutely lethal.

I think the right will improve once Sagna returns. Jenkinson as solid as he has been isn't as commanding of his wing due to how young he is. Its like last season when Walcott was **** for a long period due to Sagna's injury but he improved as Sagna returned. Giroud just needs a little time to find his feet, being thrust into a starting role due to rvps departure hasnt helped him. I'd be worried if he was not getting any chances at all but he has excellent movement so the chances will come, he just needs to find the composure from last season. The team will also learn to anticipate his knockdowns and flicks better with time.