General Reserves Talk

lomekian

Well-Known Member
I’m not saying they would definitely make it here. But they are more talented and much better than the previous batch. Again, I never rated nelson in the u23 and don’t get why he is called tricky/skillful.
Nelson's problems really aren't technical. His first touch, passing range and free-kick taking for instance are strengths. Its his lack of physical development and timidness in the first team set up that count against him. You've got to remember that as 15 year olds he was seen as a better prospect than Sancho
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
Chris Willock was a prime example of the type of players that people like the poster you quoted tend to rate just because "skills" that don't amount to anything substantial. Chris was supremely talented when it came to technical ability (Joe used to be too until his growth spurt) yet when it came to substance he was often found wanting. Nelson had style and substance up until whatever happened in Germany.

I really rated Chris Willock aswell, he was such an excellent prospect but it just never happened for him because he never had real conviction when it mattered even in lesser games. Always felt like there was more he could do. I hope his stint in the Championship will help to elevate him again. It appears the same fate is befalling Nelson aswell, which I never thought would happen. A mate of mine said we should look into signing Jayden Braaf - with Taylor-Hart also in the balance, it might be a shout.
Yeah Chris Willock was a better mover, dribbler and user of the ball than most of his peers, but always seemed a little powder puff under pressure compared to less talented colleagues.
 

Symbia

Well-Known Member
Saka is good but he is still not odoi/sancho level.
The previous batch of young players are not technical enough. Nketiah and Willock especially are very poor players and I have been saying this for years.
The upcoming ones like cirjan/smith/Lewis/cottrell/coyle/John jules/omari/salah/flores/patino... they are much more technical and skilful, they are a lot more talented.
Lol
Odoi/Sancho?
What's exactly the relationship between the 2?
From what we have seen so far in the top level football they are world apart.
Putting them in the same bracket is slap-worthy offence.

Odoi has the same effect as that of Nelson, just slightly showed a bit more than Nelson in the top level football and that's about it.

Saka vs Odoi today is not even a choice.
 

MutableEarth

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Saka was still just a schoolboy. Got all the way to the final only to be smashed by Chelsea smh.
Yep, even with the decent players we had that day, we were almost completely outmatched - especially in midfield. Matt Smith barely held his own and Burton had rings ran around him after having a good tourney overall. It was ESR who looked a cut above almost everyone on the pitch, with Amaechi, Daley-Campbell and Ballard also giving valiant efforts in the first leg. I remember Saka and Balogun came on and gave them some problems aswell but the game was done at that point. If it wasn't for Okonkwo, we'd have been killed worse. That's how good that Chelsea team were.
 

Geofranco

Well-Known Member
Yep, even with the decent players we had that day, we were almost completely outmatched - especially in midfield. Matt Smith barely held his own and Burton had rings ran around him after having a good tourney overall. It was ESR who looked a cut above almost everyone on the pitch, with Amaechi, Daley-Campbell and Ballard also giving valiant efforts in the first leg. I remember Saka and Balogun came on and gave them some problems aswell but the game was done at that point. If it wasn't for Okonkwo, we'd have been killed worse. That's how good that Chelsea team were.

I think Saka even scored a goal in the second leg that was ruled offside. Wasn't it Jao Virginia in goal? I was really hyped about Virgina as a GK prospect. Only concern I had was his size, but he had potential.
 

MutableEarth

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I think Saka even scored a goal in the second leg that was ruled offside. Wasn't it Jao Virginia in goal? I was really hyped about Virgina as a GK prospect. Only concern I had was his size, but he had potential.
My bad. You're right it was Virginia.
 

Ibadan

Thread Bump Police
I always love reading this thread, so much hope. It's a bit like like reading traders on the stock market discussing valuations of their shares rising and falling.
 

MutableEarth

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I always love reading this thread, so much hope. It's a bit like like reading traders on the stock market discussing valuations of their shares rising and falling.
Ironically I have friends that shout me for my opinion about prospects for their Football Index. I've thought about going into it but I just don't have the time for all of that. I'm sure quite a few guys have lost money on Amaechi because of me :oops:.

It is very hopeful, it's the one part of the club that hasn't completely been tainted by the expectations and frustration of the first team. We're entering a really decent period aswell where the current scholars are of a very high quality - the highest it's been arguably since '09. There's a few in the next batch who look very good aswell - Bradley Ibrahim, Sydie Peck and Kieran Petrie are the main names I'm aware of. Petrie featured on BBC a while back so he's arguably the most known quantity of the coming intake.

I expect us to have a very good Youth Cup run, would be a shame if it doesn't happen this year.
 

Ibadan

Thread Bump Police
Ironically I have friends that shout me for my opinion about prospects for their Football Index. I've thought about going into it but I just don't have the time for all of that. I'm sure quite a few guys have lost money on Amaechi because of me :oops:.

It is very hopeful, it's the one part of the club that hasn't completely been tainted by the expectations and frustration of the first team. We're entering a really decent period aswell where the current scholars are of a very high quality - the highest it's been arguably since '09. There's a few in the next batch who look very good aswell - Bradley Ibrahim, Sydie Peck and Kieran Petrie are the main names I'm aware of. Petrie featured on BBC a while back so he's arguably the most known quantity of the coming intake.

I expect us to have a very good Youth Cup run, would be a shame if it doesn't happen this year.

You sound so disillusioned by the first team, sounds like Arsenal has disappointed you recently. Focusing on our academy/prospects is as good a coping mechanism as any other I suppose aha

If you got into the football index stuff, i'm sure you'd make a killing. I'll keep an eye out for the names you mentioned
 

MutableEarth

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You sound so disillusioned by the first team, sounds like Arsenal has disappointed you recently. Focusing on our academy/prospects is as good a coping mechanism as any other I suppose aha

If you got into the football index stuff, i'm sure you'd make a killing. I'll keep an eye out for the names you mentioned
I just haven't seen any evidence that our squad building is going to get significantly better but there's been a couple improvements. Just not enough to impress me. Ideally I would not like to rely on 19-20 year olds to save us, it would be much more beneficial to rotate them with class players who have a bit more maturity and consistency in their game. Saka and ESR have been extremely good for us since the latter came into the XI but they've also had their small dips in performance in that time - to be expected. It's sad that we can't seem to rely on the vast majority of the seniors to really help them carry us for a sustained period.

My hope is that we can rejig the squad into a mixture of early peak age players augmented with the best of Hale End. I have to pray that Edu at least is building towards that, even in his roundabout way. I'm not impressed so far but we haven't seen his long term vision yet.
 

Geofranco

Well-Known Member
You sound so disillusioned by the first team, sounds like Arsenal has disappointed you recently. Focusing on our academy/prospects is as good a coping mechanism as any other I suppose aha

If you got into the football index stuff, i'm sure you'd make a killing. I'll keep an eye out for the names you mentioned

Not mutable, but I can say the academy from 2015 on is the reason I still support the club.

Especially in that horror show of a season in 17/18. That's why I have such a close attachment to Nelson, Saka and Smith Rowe.

Watching those dudes since they were like 15 or 16 years old, and with Nelson I was already seeing vids of him since he was 14. They are the only attachment I have to the club now that Wenger is gone.

The football style and values Wenger instilled is within them, at least that is what the idealist in me wants to believe lol.

Honestly the football the first team have been playing in the last couple of years have been so depressing and just sucks the life outta you.

Even just the rumor of Mourinho coming here was too much for me. Not fully sold on Arteta, but at least he played under Wenger and understands some of what the great man stood for.
 

RunTheTrap

In midfield with Cellabos
You put too much emphasis on technical ability. While technique is important, it is just one facet of a footballer. It's like me saying player X is better than player Y because he's faster and disregarding everything else. I mean I think Ben Arfa probably has more ability than Salah but no one would buy Ben Arfa over Salah just because he's technically cleaner.
I think Hudson-Odoi is super talented but he often gets the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't play that much and so his exclusion from the team overhypes his influence. Classic case of being rated higher when you're not playing. CHO supposedly has more potential than Saka. Maybe that's true but potential is asinine in the grand scheme. How do you quantify potential? I think we need to stop judging players on potential and just rate players on what they actually do. At this current moment of time the only two youngsters that are doing more than Saka are Foden and Sancho. I'm not tearing down CHO or Greenwood but until they've done more and shown consistency, we shouldn't dismiss Saka as an elite talent.
 

Symbia

Well-Known Member
You put too much emphasis on technical ability. While technique is important, it is just one facet of a footballer. It's like me saying player X is better than player Y because he's faster and disregarding everything else. I mean I think Ben Arfa probably has more ability than Salah but no one would buy Ben Arfa over Salah just because he's technically cleaner.
I think Hudson-Odoi is super talented but he often gets the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't play that much and so his exclusion from the team overhypes his influence. Classic case of being rated higher when you're not playing. CHO supposedly has more potential than Saka. Maybe that's true but potential is asinine in the grand scheme. How do you quantify potential? I think we need to stop judging players on potential and just rate players on what they actually do. At this current moment of time the only two youngsters that are doing more than Saka are Foden and Sancho. I'm not tearing down CHO or Greenwood but until they've done more and shown consistency, we shouldn't dismiss Saka as an elite talent.
Simple summery - potential is sh*t.
Have been hearing it since the days of Adam. What is needed is the performance at the top level.
Andros Townsend, Obertan were rated as top potentials.
Nelson and Xavier Amaechi are supposed to be much more talented than Saka.
Look what is happening.

If for one thing, Arsenal fans have this mentality of underrating the young players, started a few years ago.

From what is clearly seen this season, Odoi is no where near Saka's performance at the top level. Even Chelki fans won't argue about this.

When Saka hold the ball, his decision making and football brain will get you wonder if he is really a teenager.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
Ooh! A you tube highlights video. Well that sure as sh*% decides matters. Hudson-Odoi has top level potential, but is almost exactly the same player he was 18 months ago. Saka's range of skills and knowledge of how to utilise them is far more developed, and his development curve has been steep. CHO's development not helped by staying at Chelsea for the HUGE wage rise, despite knowing that they are a club that only sticks with youth who deliver immediately.
 

Match Prediction

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