Rasmi
Negative Nancy
Country: England
If true good for him. A chance to make it in the PL. I think skelly will be gone in 12-18 months as well
-
! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !
Discussions about police investigations
In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.
Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.
General Reserves Talk
- Thread starter M+D
- Start date
- Replies 11,775
- Views 1,158,026
Country: England
WesleyNHohfeld
Member
Country: USA
It's frustrating how few academy players seem to be on the edge of getting minutes right now. By comparison, Liverpool, Barcelona, and United to a lesser extent seem to be blooding in some real talents at the moment.
I will be disappointed if Lewis-Skelly, Walters, Nwanieri, and Cozier-Duberry don't all get minutes next year in multiple games. But I know we play at such a high level and Arteta sees them in training day in and day out. But until he gives one of the young guns a few chances, the jury will be out on his academy development in my opinion (Martinelli and Saka are outliers/can be explained on multiple grounds).
I will be disappointed if Lewis-Skelly, Walters, Nwanieri, and Cozier-Duberry don't all get minutes next year in multiple games. But I know we play at such a high level and Arteta sees them in training day in and day out. But until he gives one of the young guns a few chances, the jury will be out on his academy development in my opinion (Martinelli and Saka are outliers/can be explained on multiple grounds).
If true , I don't know what to think of it. Newcastle signed Yankuba Minteh last season who's actually very good. Starred in the Danish league and now playing European football with Feyenoord. I guess it's better than having to compete with Saka for a spot. If he leaves i.hope he goes abroad, I think it will allow him to easier adapt to senior football
Felt like leaving this here for a better understanding of how tough loans can be and for those who raise issues when the club or clubs opt for league one as the first loan no matter how talented the kids are. Callum Marshall had scored 16 goals in PL2 , full Northern Irish international and already made his debut there aged 17. Was the star of that West Ham team that won the u18 PL and gave us a beating in the FA youth cup final.
2 of those names are out of contract this Summer - so they might get minutes but it may not be at Arsenal so watch this space!
I wouldn't worry about Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly as much personally. They're both very young - Nwaneri is about to turn 17 and Lewis-Skelly turns 18 next season. They're both already on the fringes and the club pulled out some serious stops to keep them both (Nwaneri's contract is rumoured to be huge, arguably bigger than Balogun's). My guess is that their pro deals are going to be structured similarly to Miguel Azeez as he's the only one I can think of who signed a pro deal that was 3 years instead of the standard two and also had an option for an extra two years in it. The real dead certs are all sown up. Chido Obi has a guaranteed pro-deal baked into a scholarship he had already agreed to last season! I'm almost certain Max Dowman will have a similar red carpet laid out for him. For everyone else, it's gonna be a fight to get into one of the best teams in the league. This isn't 2020 Arsenal - those spots are even harder to get into now. The only way to get in is to be better than the experienced alternatives and competing with the starters.
Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly both have the ability and potential to do that - in a first team set-up they probably acquit themselves well. Given the nature of Nwaneri's cameo against an already beaten West Ham, there was enough to suggest he doesn't significantly bring the quality of the team down, especially given his technical security and positive play. Lewis-Skelly would need to be assessed similarly but I can see him showing out in pre-season if he's given a significant platform. Cozier-Duberry is very talented and I'd like us to keep him but he's not better than Saka, Martinelli, Trossard or Nelson. Where do his minutes come from? We can be upset he doesn't get a cameo to show his ability - I certainly don't feel good about it - but objectively it's a slog for him. He has the potential, sure. Does he have the time or the patience? Would it not be prudent to look for a move that gives him a pathway to actual first team football?
I'm less reluctant to judge Arteta on his integration of the academy currently because the team has been on a steady rise and we're currently playing the best football we've played since 2007/08 IMO. That's no small feat. As the standards of the first team rise, so must the demands of how to get into that first team. I don't think it's the meritocracy some people point it out to be (Arteta's mistrust of certain players is well documented) but the standard of the first XI is high. A lot of talented kids are not gonna make it, and only the very best will. Right now, there are only a few that fit that bracket.
Ethan Nwaneri
Myles Lewis-Skelly
Chido Obi (even he's no guarantee yet, need to see him fully acclimatise to U18 level which he hasn't).
That's basically it. You could make a small argument for likes of Walters, Cozier-Duberry and Ayden Heaven (who hasn't been mentioned much but he's really improved in a short space of time).
Liverpool's and Barcelona's hands have been pretty much forced due to injuries just as it was with us back in the Wenger Days. Kloop is one of the best at integrating young players but I don't think it would have been to this extent if less key players were injured. Almost the same case with Barcelona.As good as they are i don't think any manager wants to be competing with a 16 and 17 year old in the CL knock outs. I obviously wish Arteta was more generous in handing over minutes but he's got us at the top of the table and in the quarter finals of the CL. We have evolved very first to a top team and as mentioned , it will take outstanding talents to find a place in the team.
Country: Canada
RunTheTrap
Kai Havertz Offense League
I get that in this system the left-back is basically an auxiliary midfielder. But at least try the kid in his normal position first before shifting him to the left-back position.
I actually read the article (finally) and it's an assumption largely, but they also said he's gonna stay at 6/8 for now - which would be way better. He's got the ability to dominate games, no need to put that at full-back.
Found it more interesting that Ayden Heaven was mentioned in the article alongside the likes of Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Obi-Martin and even Dowman. Does suggest he's as highly rated as them currently. I do like him a lot tbf, versatile and has a good profile.
Last edited:
Rasmi
Negative Nancy
Country: England
What a waste of talent. Zinchenko himself is not a left back and the biggest weakness in our team.
drippin
Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"
Country: Finland
But would it be easier for Lewis-Skelly to get 1st team game-time if he played LB. A bit similar as Saka's path, but inverted? He is good at defending?
Being inverted LB like Zinchenko isn't that much different from a midfield role. And can't he later switch back to midfield?
Getting midfield minutes in a title challenging team is not easy for so young players. United's squad is a mess so it can't be compared to Mainoo (who is 1,5 years older btw.)
Or do you want him to go on loan?
A loan wouldn't be a bad idea. I think Lewis-Skelly is a player who needs to be challenged. While his individual performance level is usually high, it's very obvious that both he and Nwaneri are beginning to find U21 level a little easy. It's fine for now but I'd still strike while the iron is hot.
I think it would of course be easier to get game time if there was a move to LB but I really don't like the idea of putting a player that good as a CM/DM at LB just to justify playing him. It works sometimes, sure, but for every Trent there's a Maitland-Niles (sure, he could've made it work better but it still wasn't the best idea for him IMO). Not every decent midfield prospect needs to cut their teeth at full-back unless there are specific things to learn or they have something unique to offer the position - the only argument I can see for Lewis-Skelly playing that role in the first place.
That said, I do believe Lewis-Skelly could easily make a LB role work - he has played the role before, but he's a pretty different player to Zinchenko. He's a better ball-carrier IMO and arguably has more potential defensively in 1v1s. I also think that Zinchenko is a cleaner passer of the ball (owing to his excellent technical skill) and more of a volume passer in possession, however there's not much to separate him and Lewis-Skelly in terms of vision and ability in that area. You could potentially put Lewis-Skelly at LB in a team that features Rice at left 8 and Gabriel as the left sided CB to protect that side of the pitch when he goes on one of his trademark dribbles or when he gets involved in the possession play to thread the ball through. It's not impossible, nor is it the worst thing, but I just have PTSD from the whole Maitland-Niles thing and would rather avoid misusing a talent as good as Lewis-Skelly when he arguably wouldn't look out of place if he just played in his best position.
I hear the LB shouts but if it was up to me, I'm definitely not putting THIS at LB.
lomekian
Essays are my thing
Yeah - you only move MLS to LB if he looks like he can't quite cut it at CM. He needs to beable to take risks to excell in my opinion
I know nothing about player management and pathway development, but if I was to loan Lewis-Skelly out, I don't think I'd want to loan him to a club or a to a level where he's walks into their team.
I'd try and find a team or a level where he had to fight his way into their 11, and possibly not always make it in.
I think he, especially being as robust as he is, needs to be physically and mentally challenged to not only tap into his level of talent, but improve it and then sustain it because someone was breathing down his neck, and I think that would come from playing for and being in a team of adults where he wasn't immediately their "star" loanee.
I'd try and find a team or a level where he had to fight his way into their 11, and possibly not always make it in.
I think he, especially being as robust as he is, needs to be physically and mentally challenged to not only tap into his level of talent, but improve it and then sustain it because someone was breathing down his neck, and I think that would come from playing for and being in a team of adults where he wasn't immediately their "star" loanee.
Country: Bangladesh
Player:Martinelli
It’s a balancing act. You also would like him to get minutes and at better clubs like you suggest, realistically he wouldn’t get minutes unless there was an injury
I wouldn't want him playing at a weaker club, getting a ton of minutes, but getting minutes where most of his time is spent defending, and very little of that time spent honing the forward thinking and forward moving things he's good at.
It's an important part of the game, yes, but I don't want him to end up in a similar spot as Charlie Patino or Brooke Norton-Cuffy. They've both been on loan for nearing on 2 seasons and we don't know much more about them as players as we did when we still had them because they're either at middling clubs, or they're being forced out of their spots by older players because those clubs need to survive.
But let's say, for arguments sake, you could get MLS to a club like Anderlecht. He wouldn't be a guaranteed starter, but if he could get good minutes, compete with adults, and play "winning" football, you'd really see what kind of player you had.
Lower table Championship loans simply don't seem effective these days.
You'd have to spend some time really looking into not only the playing style of the club, but the current Head Coaches philosophy (in terms of playing youth) and the way their squad is built.
You basically want a player like MLS (or Nwaneri) to be at a club that was in our position 3-4 years ago. We are no longer in the space to integrate 17/18 year olds unless they're showing signs of being class if not already close, but 3-4 years ago we were in a place where we were treading water and could use youth in that way.
I would look to loaning both Ethan and MLS to the same club in either Holland or Belgium. A place where English is a 2nd/3rd language, and there's a chance of something like Europa Conference League. If they're as good as we hope they are, then they should be able to fight for and get into regular Starting 11's at their age and talent level.
Even a Stum Graz like Mika Biereth. Let them go and tear up a men's league and play competitive winning football after fighting for their places.
I hadn't seen this post but I don't think this is a bad idea at all. With Lewis-Skelly, I feel like his competitiveness translates well to the Championship but you're right that a lot of these lower table teams are brutal in terms of possession play and very often go with tried and tested at the expense of the younger loanees, who get brought in as emergency back-ups rather than first team contributors. A glance at Sagoe Jr, Khayon Edwards, Zane Monlouis and even Charlie Patino betrays this.
Brooke Norton-Cuffy is actually probably the only one who's consistently playing and getting some plaudits and it's not hard to see why - a hustling, bustling wing-back with a big physique and deceptively quick feet. He's basically Djed Spence pre-Sp**s. If he can learn to pass more intelligently and reliably, he might be something. Suitably experienced too. 100 first team apps, most of them in the Championship, all at the age of 20. Nothing to sniff at!
I think Nwaneri will still be at Arsenal next season. I think he's a lot closer than people realise, probably not far behind the likes of Vieira for example. The fact that Arteta is even talking about him and considering him is more than I expected. Lewis-Skelly should be closer but it's just a matter of timing with him more than anything. It's possible that he also stays but I really think a good loan would do him good aswell. I'd like him to go to a physical league, if only to test how well he adapts his intense style of play. Don't know if Holland or Belgium offers that. I was thinking France tbh a la Balogun. Will Still did a good job with Balogun, if Reims need a 6/8 I'd be looking at them.
Some clips of Chido Obi for the U18s this season. Can still see the rawness there but he's got a tremendously high ceiling. Could arguably have more goals than he does have already! Don't think he has a specific weakness in his game. He dribbles well, he links well, he's a big strong boy with good acceleration, he scores with both feet and his head, he presses, he runs the channels.....
He's not even a scholar yet. He's probably going to end up being the main striker for the U21s by next season. It'll probably take him a few months to get up to speed before he starts slapping away 4 goals a game. I'm more intrigued by who he's going to be flanked by in the coming season. We're in a bit of a weird space with wingers at the moment. Cozier-Duberry is done at U21 level and needs a deal+a loan. Osman Kamara could probably do with an extra season at U21 so LW might be sown up but RW is less secure. Kabia is my guess but I wouldn't be surprised to see Seb Ferdinand take that spot. The one I would look out for is Zecevic-John. He looks interesting - plays with aggression and directness but seemingly has a bit of guile in his game. Interesting to see what happens there.
I really thought Timber gonna play today PL 2 game surprised he not playing
