Has The Quality In Football Regressed?

[DubbedTheNewWenger]

Was having an interesting discussion with a few guys earlier.
According to these guys, football has increased in quality.

Personally, I couldn't disagree more.
I believe footballers are more of athletes rather than footballers.
Although, there are some technically gifted players about I think those are far and few in between.

Bringing the argument closer to home (The Prem).
Do you think the Top 4 from present time can hang with the top 4 from the 07-08 season?

That ridiculously overpowered Man U side with Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, etc for one?
What about that that very good Arsenal side which bottled it?
Chelsea were extremely strong as well.
Not to mention Liverpool a year later or so with Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, etc?

There is a reason why things are competitive now between all the teams in the Prem. And that is down to the top teams going downhill and the smaller ones picking it up a little bit. The gap has been bridged a little bit in that sense.
With all due respect, Leicester winning the league shows how poor the Prem is in terms of quality.

Generally speaking football on world level has just gone backwards.
There were so many amazing strikers from the 90s down to the mid 2000s like Romario, Ronaldo, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy Henry, Rivaldo, etc.
Midfielders was the same stacked with quality. Don't even mention cbs when you had the likes of Thuram, Nesta, Maldini, Canavarro, Sol Campbell, Ferdinand, etc.
There are way too many players to list.

I dread to think what a Brazilian Ronaldo would do the defenders nowadays for example.

What do you guys think? Looking forward to your replies.

 

[Rex Stone]

In terms of the Premier league I think it's cyclical. We dominated after Serie A did and before La Liga and the Bundesliga took over afterwards. Now Ligue 1 seems to be in the ascendancy.

In terms of strikers it's a harder position than ever to break through in. More teams play with one striker than ever before which requires a lot out of them. Need to be proficient in more than just finishing.

Also defenders who solely defend, rightly or wrongly aren't as in demand as they were. Most teams now want defenders to play out from the back.

As a wider point I wouldn't let nostalgia go too far, players are getting more and more athletic and the game is always changing and evolving.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Yeah nostalgia clouds peoples judgement I feel. I think what we must remember is that we're in an era of football where both Messi and Ronaldo are playing at the same time and they're arguably top 5 of all time, certainly top 10.

 

[Giroud]

The level of football now is at the highest it's ever been and it's not even a debate for several reasons.

1. There are more people playing football than ever before making it even more competitive and you have to be even better to reach the top.
2. Players are training much more than they did in the past. I was in the Newcastle academy a few weeks ago and their U23s were doing 8 sessions in a week.
3. Not only more training but also better recovery through research, periodisation, sports science and improved nutrition in players. Therefore better adaptations to training.
4. Strength and conditioning raising players fitness, speed and physicality to levels never seen before.
5. Better coaching through increased knowledge in the areas of learning. A good example is Wenger, 15 years ago he was one of the best if not best coach in the world, now he's very average.

I'm sure others could add to the list. The game is just on another level these days because of technology, science and improved knowledge. As a result players are faster, stronger, fitter, more technical and better tactically.

On that note, Messi and Ronaldo respectively are the top 2 of all time no question about it. I don't know how people still think the Brazilian Ronaldo was better than Cristiano? The former has nearly 400 goals for Real Madrid averaging more than a goal a game. Insane.

 

[DubbedTheNewWenger]

On that note, Messi and Ronaldo respectively are the top 2 of all time no question about it. I don't know how people still think the Brazilian Ronaldo was better than Cristiano? The former has nearly 400 goals for Real Madrid averaging more than a goal a game. Insane.

The Brazilian Ronaldo in his short peak is Imo the GOAT. The dude was unreal. Don't get it twisted. Ronaldo is up there. But the Brazilian has every attribute over Cristiano and had to actually contend with actual nightmare of defenders.

What do you think he'd be doing to the likes Ramos, Pique, etc? He'd rag doll em.

 

[Macho]

The prem has regressed but world football as definitely improved. Athletically speaking anyways.

Also @ CRonaldo>Fat Ronaldo

Fat Ronaldo was an unholy beast people just forget. Had a very fleeting career in comparison as well

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Anyone who says football, on the whole, is regressing is blinded by nostalgia. Every year the tactics, training, and technology get better. Every year the player pool swells, as does the amount of time they can spend on the game and the quality of the coaching received. And not for nothing, the rewards (in nominal and compared to GDP per capita terms) of becoming a top player continue to explode.

 

[DubbedTheNewWenger]

Anyone who says football, on the whole, is regressing is blinded by nostalgia. Every year the tactics, training, and technology get better. Every year the player pool swells, as does the amount of time they can spend on the game and the quality of the coaching received. And not for nothing, the rewards (in nominal and compared to GDP per capita terms) of becoming a top player continue to explode.

Nostalgia? Not really.
Player pool swells? And? I don't get this? That still doesn't explain why there isn't that much talent compared to before both offensively and defensively.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Nostalgia? Not really.
Player pool swells? And? I don't get this? That still doesn't explain why there isn't that much talent compared to before both offensively and defensively.

There are more people playing the game, thus on average, the talent pool increases. The reason you see less "talent" is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to stand out.

 

[DubbedTheNewWenger]

There are more people playing the game, thus on average, the talent pool increases. The reason you see less "talent" is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to stand out.

That is a very simplistic way of looking at things. So why don't we see another Campbell, Ferdinand, Thuram, Romario, Rivaldo, Henry, etc, on a regular like we used to?
In particular cbs. The level of defenders has gone downhill for one. Ffs Ramos who is a good player is probably considered the best one right now along with other decent ones. Same with strikers and players in other positions.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

That is a very simplistic way of looking at things. So why don't we see another Campbell, Ferdinand, Thuram, Romario, Rivaldo, Henry, etc, on a regular like we used to?
In particular cbs. The level of defenders has gone downhill for one. Ffs Ramos who is a good player is probably considered the best one right now along with other decent ones. Same with strikers and players in other positions.

It's is actually a very nuanced, rational (and empirically-backed) way of thinking about things, and only one piece of the puzzle -- look back at my first post for the rest, which you ignored to attack the one piece you didn't understand. The sum perfectly explains why you feel you don't see the levels of relative, individual brilliance that you used to. Feel free to offer an alternative hypothesis as to why world football has declined so precipitously in your eyes, by the way -- ideally one other than "look, I can name a bunch of great players from the past!"

Lionization of older players also makes perfect sense re: primacy and anchoring biases -- time obscures the past and earlier top players get more mindshare, leading to bloated opinions.

 

[Batman]

The Brazilian Ronaldo in his short peak is Imo the GOAT. The dude was unreal. Don't get it twisted. Ronaldo is up there. But the Brazilian has every attribute over Cristiano and had to actually contend with actual nightmare of defenders.

What do you think he'd be doing to the likes Ramos, Pique, etc? He'd rag doll em.

This. I'm biased because he's my favorite player ever but this man absolutely toyed with the likes of Nesta and Maldini who in their pomp were 2 levels above any defender playing today. He had absolutely everything. He had track level speed, trickery, incredible strength, balance, could finish with both feet. The only thing you could give Cristiano over him is heading. It's no wonder the likes of Zidane, Zlatan and Alexis rank him as the best they've ever seen.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Brazilian Ronaldo is probably the greatest talent I've ever seen. Unreal mixing of abilities. Beautiful footballer.

Hard to argue against Ronaldo and Messi stats at their clubs though. Unreal figures. And won a lot of trophies too!

 

[Dokaka]

Messi and Ronaldo's decade of dominance has ruined the perception of the level of the good/great footballers to most people.

There are plenty of strikers around that would rate in among those listed in the OP. Lewa, Auba, Sanchez, Aguero, Suarez, Neymar, Zlatan etc. are all on par or better than the strikers you listed. Ronaldo9 was Messi/Ronaldo level at peak but we now have two of him, healthy and Messi imo better.

If anything the massively increased skill floor due to more people playing the game has made us underappreciate some special talents. A player like Modric easily ranks as one of the top CMs in football history, yet he's just another cog in the wheel at Real, massively overshadowed by Ronaldo.

Hell, I would argue that Suarez is one of the top 5 strikers of all time. The man single-handedly dragged an awful Liverpool team managed by Brendan ****ing Rogers to title contention. He offers everything on the pitch, unlike players like Shevchenko and Van Nistelrooy.

He's right behind Henry on my list.

 

[scytheavatar]

Messi and Ronaldo's decade of dominance has ruined the perception of the level of the good/great footballers to most people.

There are plenty of strikers around that would rate in among those listed in the OP. Lewa, Auba, Sanchez, Aguero, Suarez, Neymar, Zlatan etc. are all on par or better than the strikers you listed. Ronaldo9 was Messi/Ronaldo level at peak but we now have two of him, healthy and Messi imo better.

If anything the massively increased skill floor due to more people playing the game has made us underappreciate some special talents. A player like Modric easily ranks as one of the top CMs in football history, yet he's just another cog in the wheel at Real, massively overshadowed by Ronaldo.

Hell, I would argue that Suarez is one of the top 5 strikers of all time. The man single-handedly dragged an awful Liverpool team managed by Brendan ****ing Rogers to title contention. He offers everything on the pitch, unlike players like Shevchenko and Van Nistelrooy.

He's right behind Henry on my list.

Your standards are low, Suarez is probably a GOAT, argubly Zlatan too but Lewa, Auba, Sanchez, Aguero, Neymar are nowhere near that level. Laughable for anyone who would rather have Auba in his team than Henry at his prime. Similarly Modric is a good player but it's hard to argue he's in the level of Xabi Alonso, let alone someone like Andrea Pirlo who young players will be studying about for the next decades. And if you have a choice between having Rivaldo or Sanchez in your team who would you rather have?

Quality of football has certainly regressed, people want to deny it but sports as a whole is dying. Professional sports has lost its way a long time ago and we could be living in a future where people would rather play bad mobile games than play football under the hot sun.

 

[Malky]

The Brazilian Ronaldo in his short peak is Imo the GOAT. The dude was unreal. Don't get it twisted. Ronaldo is up there. But the Brazilian has every attribute over Cristiano and had to actually contend with actual nightmare of defenders.

What do you think he'd be doing to the likes Ramos, Pique, etc? He'd rag doll em.

The guy had the best attributes of both Messi and C Ronaldo rolled into one unbelievable player. Best ever, in my opinion.
He was dominating the Serie A when it was regarded as the toughest league in world football, when the defenders were proper defenders and he was still racking up ridiculous goal tally's. Brazil, Holland, Italy, Spain, Ronaldo dominated every league he played in and guided Brazil to world cup glory and all that in between serious knee injury's. No debate for me, best player ever!

 

[Juan Matas Beard]

In terms of the Premier league I think it's cyclical. We dominated after Serie A did and before La Liga and the Bundesliga took over afterwards. Now Ligue 1 seems to be in the ascendancy.

In terms of strikers it's a harder position than ever to break through in. More teams play with one striker than ever before which requires a lot out of them. Need to be proficient in more than just finishing.

Also defenders who solely defend, rightly or wrongly aren't as in demand as they were. Most teams now want defenders to play out from the back.

As a wider point I wouldn't let nostalgia go too far, players are getting more and more athletic and the game is always changing and evolving.

Seems like we're going to see less and less of the traditional target men upfront. Most of the strikers are converted into playing there as ex wingers. Not many teams would have the patience to develop someone like Harry Kane, if he's hitting poverty numbers in his loan spells then most likely won't get a chance.

 

[Batman]

Seems like we're going to see less and less of the traditional target men upfront. Most of the strikers are converted into playing there as ex wingers. Not many teams would have the patience to develop someone like Harry Kane, if he's hitting poverty numbers in his loan spells then most likely won't get a chance.

He's not really a target man though. Ok he's not lightning quick or a great dribbler but Kane is an incredible finisher with great movement. I think any team has time for someone who displays his qualities.

 

[Batman]

The guy had the best attributes of both Messi and C Ronaldo rolled into one unbelievable player. Best ever, in my opinion.
He was dominating the Serie A when it was regarded as the toughest league in world football, when the defenders were proper defenders and he was still racking up ridiculous goal tally's. Brazil, Holland, Italy, Spain, Ronaldo dominated every league he played in and guided Brazil to world cup glory and all that in between serious knee injury's. No debate for me, best player ever!

Cannavaro who is in my opinion the last central defender from the old order of truly great ones if you will claims R9 as the only player he ever legitimately feared playing against. All of his contemporaries marveled at him. When you consider how much harder it was to come back from ACL tears in those days and how he was able to adapt once he lost the truly explosive pace over distance(though even then his acceleration over the first couple of yards was second to none) it's even more remarkable. I'm not sure Messi or Cristiano or anyone really could have endured what he did and not had a significant drop off in play. In the end it was the thyroid and related weight gain that got him.

 

[Juan Matas Beard]

He's not really a target man though. Ok he's not lightning quick or a great dribbler but Kane is an incredible finisher with great movement. I think any team has time for someone who displays his qualities.

Agreed, didn't mean to call Kane a target man but in general, if players are physically slow and aren't hitting the ground running early then they'd be very lucky to get chances in the Top 6 clubs.