LC: Tottenham vs Arsenal | 24/01/07

[stiiphunn]

I think it's also partly my fault I got carried away by the hype. It's become clear to me that he's not going to have the impact of a messi, cesc, rooney, ronaldo, anelka etc.

He will become a very good player I'm sure, but I had envisioned him having the potential to be a really fantastic player which is looking less likely. He can of course prove me wrong, but you know what I mean. When you first saw Ronaldo, or Messi, or even Cesc play you knew they were prodigious talents. Freaks like someone said. Theo is just another very good young player.

I remember watching Ronaldinho being subbed into a Brazil game at the age of 18 I think, can't quite recall - he dribbled past the opposition right back, flicked the ball over the centre back and scored a wonderful goal. I didn't know who he was at that time but that made me go wow, this guy is going to be something special.

Everyone's different. But you're right, there was a lot of hype, and it probably got us thinking that he was gonna be huge for us right away.
And to be honest, Theo, at the moment, is an average player for us. He's trying to do some complicated stuff, even thought he's not a very good dribbler. He needs to keep things simple, and it'll come naturally with time.
He's got bags of potential and he'll improve slowly but surely.

 

[otfgoon]

Everyone's different. But you're right, there was a lot of hype, and it probably got us thinking that he was gonna be huge for us right away.
And to be honest, Theo, at the moment, is an average player for us. He's trying to do some complicated stuff, even thought he's not a very good dribbler. He needs to keep things simple, and it'll come naturally with time.
He's got bags of potential and he'll improve slowly but surely.

Going to take issue with you on that, he is a good dribbler, he often beats his man and even two. But the problem is he tries to take on 3, 4 players and tries to dribble out of impossible situations. When he comes off the wing and runs directly at goal its brillaint, lifts the tempo of our game. All he needs to learn is when to release it.

The same can be said about his passing, its actually very good but he still gives it away a lot for reasons other than his ability to pass.

What people need to understand is we didnt pay all that money for him to be good for us now, we paid it so we dont have to pay double or even triple that value in two, three years time and thus missout on him altogether.

 

[Jkreffer]

Thats true actually. People must remember that these next few years will all be a learning curve for him. I think too many people have been spoiled with Fabregas. Walcott has shown quite a lot to get excited about in patches, and for a 17 yr old, that is all you can realistically ask for. For me he has shown more then enough to show he will be a more than capable player for us. Just needs games and guidance-which is something he will get alot of in the next few years. The raw ability is there.

 

[stiiphunn]

Everyone's different. But you're right, there was a lot of hype, and it probably got us thinking that he was gonna be huge for us right away.
And to be honest, Theo, at the moment, is an average player for us. He's trying to do some complicated stuff, even thought he's not a very good dribbler. He needs to keep things simple, and it'll come naturally with time.
He's got bags of potential and he'll improve slowly but surely.

Going to take issue with you on that, he is a good dribbler, he often beats his man and even two. But the problem is he tries to take on 3, 4 players and tries to dribble out of impossible situations. When he comes off the wing and runs directly at goal its brillaint, lifts the tempo of our game. All he needs to learn is when to release it.

The same can be said about his passing, its actually very good but he still gives it away a lot for reasons other than his ability to pass.

What people need to understand is we didnt pay all that money for him to be good for us now, we paid it so we dont have to pay double or even triple that value in two, three years time and thus missout on him altogether.

Yeah he's brilliant when he does that, you're right about that. However to say that he's a good dribbler is IMO premature.
You've got two types of dribblers in football. Dribblers who use their speed, and dribblers who use their skills. in other words, you have Lennon or you have Cristiano Ronaldo (even though, he uses both).
Walcott can become more of a Lennon-type dribbler, which means that he's got to use his speed to beat defenders. In order to do that, he can't be hesitant with the ball, because it gives defenders time to 'read' his moves. Lennon is doing everything so quickly that defenders are more often that not left behind.
I don't think Walcott can become a C.ronaldo-type dribber. He doesn't have the tricks and skills to do that. For example Ronaldinho can beat his defender, even though both aren't in movement. Simply because he's got a trick to foot his marker.

So what I'm trying to say that is that Walcott does have the potential to be a good dribbler ( speed and ball control ), but at the moment he's way too hesitant, and as you said he doesn't know when to release the ball. He needs to be more spontaneous, and it'll probably come.
By the way, I don't think the problem is the fact that he tries to take on 3,4 defenders. It's simply that once he goes past one, he doesn't know what to do next, and therefore allows the defender to comeback. But I'm sure he'll sort that out on his own.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Theo has been pants, seriously.

Do you seriously think he was ever worth 12 million quid? Ridiculous by Arsenal.

so so so fickle.

So you think he was worth 12m quid? It's not the fact that we bought him but it's the notion that every English player has to be expensive. I thought Wenger himself said he didn't want to pay over the price for a player?

Surely the point is that Arsenal aren't, ultimately, paying £12m for a 17 year old, they're paying £12m so they don't have to pay £20m for the guy in 4 years time, and we get to influence his development. Yes, it was a lot of money, but ridiculous? You can't make a judgement like that after a few games in the first team. That's ridiculous.

 

[qs]

The conditions in Theos transfer mean if he doesn't really well for us then we wont pay the 12 million.

Even if we had paid 12 million its better than paying double that 2 or 3 years down the line, like happened with Rooney.

Look at the good English talent out there. How much do you think Lennon would set someone back?

Right now theres not much between Theo and Ashley Young and Ashley young was bought for 8 million rising to 10.

If we wanted to sell Theo this summer we'd easily recoup our costs. That means he is worth it.

 

[goonerwarsh]

Once Theo gets into the swing of things he will be more comparable to Lennon in his style than Ronaldo. Mainly due to his physical build. Ronaldo is quite a big guy. Where as Theo and Lennon both have low centres of gravity.

But I've got to say I think Lennon is an absolute fantastic player, he scares me ****less everytime he's anywhere near the ball. It's not only his speed, it's his recovery and sharpness. Even when the defender thinks they have won the ball within a shot Lennon has either nabbed it back or snapping round the heels. He's so direct and takes players on to get in behind. He don't give the left back a minutes peace. What he doesn't quite have for me yet is a final ball. Just a shame he didn't make his way to the other side of North London and I don't usually say that about a Spud player!

 

[Gurgen]

Poor Theo being underrated by his own fans.

He might not use his 'skills' to beat defenders (yet), but he definitely has great technique. At his age there aren't many out there with a first touch like his. But apparently technique is defined here as doing twenty stepovers and controlling the ball with your arse.

Get off his back eh? Excessive criticism, just like shouting 'Theo, Theo' when we're trailing 1-0 doesn't help. Leave him alone and let him develop his game in peace.

 

[stuart]

Well said Gurgen, do you really think Wenger would pay 12 million for someone if this is as good ass they will ever be? No he wouldn't, before you mention Reyes, Wenger wasn't to know that a man would become homesick and would want a return to Spain because England is too tough. How people can criticise Theo i will never know. The guy has unbeleivable potential but isn't he just 17? People need to buck up their ideas and realise that he needs a few more years to develop

 

[kel varnsen]

i think his technique isnt still the best. he still requires a few years of training. his composure in front of goal is terrible.

meh, he's got a good touch. his problems aren't lack of technique, but lack of tactical knowledge, not good enough balance/physical strength to protect the ball and as such lose it far too easily and he lacks awareness. these things will come with experience and games.

 

[ronitc]

What did Henry do at 18? Between 17-19 he was a regular starter for Monaco on the wing where he scored about a goal every 5 games, around 20 iirc. He then was the top scorer for his country at the world cup at the age of 20. French defenders at the time were scared of him, I remember they backed off him quite a bit in league matches. We got Henry without a big fuss because of his loss of form and failure to adapt to the Italian game, but it was clear he was extremely talented.

Also the initial stretch of games where he failed to score for us is often made to look worse than it is. I mean he did end up scoring 16-18 goals that season.

 

[Gurgen]

No he didn't. He scored 6 in his first two seasons, then scored 9 goals from the wing in his third season at the age of 19. He also started most games. Theo is 17 and starts a game every month.

 

[ronitc]

actually i'm pretty sure he did.

regardless, it's details...the point is he was starting games and scoring goals for a decent monaco team. we're not exactly overloaded with wingers at the moment so walcott doesn't have much excuse for not pushing for a starting place.

 

[qs]

actually i'm pretty sure he did.

regardless, it's details...the point is he was starting games and scoring goals for a decent monaco team. we're not exactly overloaded with wingers at the moment so walcott doesn't have much excuse for not pushing for a starting place.

Monaco isn't exactly the same level as Arsenal though is it?

Walcotts not a winger though is he. He's a stiker being played there.

Oh and he's 17. Lets not forget that.

 

[qs]

i think his technique isnt still the best. he still requires a few years of training. his composure in front of goal is terrible.

meh, he's got a good touch. his problems aren't lack of technique, but lack of tactical knowledge, not good enough balance/physical strength to protect the ball and as such lose it far too easily and he lacks awareness. these things will come with experience and games.

Exactly. He needs a chance to learn how to use his talents. He tries things that dont come off, thats just naivety.

 

[GUNNERS4L1FE]

Arsène Wenger has backed Theo Walcott to come through his recent dip in form and emerge a better player.

Arsenal’s 17-year-old winger made some sparkling cameo appearances at the start of the season but had a quiet game at Tottenham on Wednesday in a rare start.

His manager puts this down to ‘growing pains’ as a footballer. The cure would be provided simply by a good game or a goal.

“I think he has developed very well in the year he has been with us but recently he had a little dip in form,” said Wenger.

“He is certainly a miles better player than six months ago. But I feel at the moment he needs a goal or a shot of confidence. He looks a bit short of it right now.

“I think it is necessary to go through that period when you are 17-years old. At the start it is all worryless, fresh and new. After that the responsibility hits you and you go through a little patch like that. But he is a level-headed boy and analyses things well though sometimes that is a disadvantage.

”I still think going to the World Cup speeded up his maturity and he will be ready earlier than everybody else. But you go through periods in your career. And when you grow at 17 sometimes physically you have a period where you feel a little bit less good. I think he is going through that period right now.”

 

[ronitc]

If Wenger is confident in him that is good enough for me, but then again Wenger places a lot of faith in Flamini so perhaps I have contradicted myself.

 

[Tony Montana]

Theo has been pants, seriously.

Do you seriously think he was ever worth 12 million quid? Ridiculous by Arsenal.

so so so fickle.

So you think he was worth 12m quid? It's not the fact that we bought him but it's the notion that every English player has to be expensive. I thought Wenger himself said he didn't want to pay over the price for a player?

Surely the point is that Arsenal aren't, ultimately, paying £12m for a 17 year old, they're paying £12m so they don't have to pay £20m for the guy in 4 years time, and we get to influence his development. Yes, it was a lot of money, but ridiculous? You can't make a judgement like that after a few games in the first team. That's ridiculous.

Fine but please take note of when i said my original statement. We were two-nil down against our local rivals and we haven't lost to them in 7 years so i was a bit pissed off to say the least. Call it knee-jerk but beating Sp**s means a lot to me and in the heat of the moment I go over the top. Remember when Youngunner told Wenger to piss off when we lost a while ago and Sabre banned him? It was a similar situation for me. Theo is only 17 and will definitely get better. I think it was an initial 5m quid but i still don't think he has that marvel factor that Rooney has. He could surpass him in the future though.

 

[YuenBiaoFan]

But you want more of them Tone.

Player anglais that is.

 

[Tony Montana]

But you want more of them Tone.

Player anglais that is.

But not just for the sake of it. I don't just want any English player just so that the Media can get off our backs. I want/wanted English players who could help our cause where we lacked fight and aggression and directness. There are those out there who could give us that and they shouldn't be overlooked. I genuinely thought that Wenger might not have noticed it or that the players didn't want to get really tough when the tough gets going but Fabregas has revealed recently that they knew they had to change. The blackburn game showed us. That does not mean we'll win every game (especially now that we've got 3 long term injuries to vital players) but it means that the players have learnt. Walcott isn't really that type of player I think Arsenal need at the moment but he's here for a long time and is one for the future.