Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[Makingtrax]

Not anymore though. You even like some of my posts these days, as I do yours. That must mean we're drifting dangerously close to agreeing on stuff

I’m all for giving him more time now. I predicted Emery would do well to finish 5th, at the start of the season, looking at Pep, Mourinho, and Klopp’s first season in the Prem. And as far as I’m concerned he’s on target for his spend.

Not interested in all this stuff about he’d have won more if he’d picked a certain player or played a different tactic.

I had the same approach with Wenger and not changing now.

But Özil is another matter. Falling out with players and creating a negative dressing room is likely to backfire on him and if he falls lower in the league because of that, rather than things out that of his control, like injuries and Kroenke withholding funds, I’ll be Emery out.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

I'm on the wait and see fence but feel like there's been so many overreactions that it's making me defend Emery more. Also my views on Emery will have absolutely nothing to do with the Özil situation tbh as I've lost faith in him the past couple of years due to a dip in performances, being paid way more than he should and all these supposed injuries forcing him to miss crucial games.

Let's not forget Özil wasn't out of favour until he missed those three games vs Bournemouth, Sp**s and United.

Özil's performance against Huddersfield is hardly out of the ordinary, he has loads of those performances every season...
I'd say in general Özil has been in good to very good form all season with the last few weeks in particular has seen him go up to great. It was the same when we switched to 3-4-3 last season too, he put in some very good performances at the back end of the season. Our team on the whole has got its mojo back somewhat. I mean Alexis seems happy, Giroud looked good, Ramsey in top form, our wing-backs being effective and our subs are making an impact.

Tho it's evident to see that our team just isn't up to his standard, I actually feel sorry for him. I hope he can get more joy from playing with Rashford, Martial and Lukaku next season.

So glad he signed, I don't think I'd be watching next season if he didn't.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Yeah your memory must've gone to ****.

He was incredible at times last season, even some of his haters said it was some of the best football he's ever played for us.

Tir himself was losing it over Ozils performances last season, it’s all in the posts

 

[Tosker]

I’m all for giving him more time now. I predicted Emery would do well to finish 5th, at the start of the season, looking at Pep, Mourinho, and Klopp’s first season in the Prem. And as far as I’m concerned he’s on target for his spend.

Not interested in all this stuff about he’d have won more if he’d picked a certain player or played a different tactic.

I had the same approach with Wenger and not changing now.

But Özil is another matter. Falling out with players and creating a negative dressing room is likely to backfire on him and if he falls lower in the league because of that, rather than things out that of his control, like injuries and Kroenke withholding funds, I’ll be Emery out.

is it just about where we finish though? what I find most disappointing is the joyless nature of a lot of our victories, and the sheer incompetence of players and manager behind our defeats

Özil when on form has brought me a lot of pleasure, and even when we win without him, there is little magic in it

we used to play wonderful passing football - but that doesn't seem to be in Emery's blueprint, nor the players capable of it

 

[Jury]

So why were you swooning for him to sign a year ago?

Why are you asking why or how it's possible to have a change of heart and be honest? Do you find it very difficult to do that?

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Why are you asking why or how it's possible to have a change of heart and be honest? Do you find it very difficult to do that?

People acting like they’ve not rated him for years ain’t just changing minds.

 

[OSBK]

Wonder if this thread will get to 1000 before he plays for arsenal again.

 

[Beksl]

People acting like they’ve not rated him for years ain’t just changing minds.

So what are they doing?

 

[Makingtrax]

is it just about where we finish though? what I find most disappointing is the joyless nature of a lot of our victories, and the sheer incompetence of players and manager behind our defeats

Özil when on form has brought me a lot of pleasure, and even when we win without him, there is little magic in it

we used to play wonderful passing football - but that doesn't seem to be in Emery's blueprint, nor the players capable of it

Some of Pep’s play is breathtaking but so is the quality of his players.

Wenger managed it with just a few quality players in any one 11 he created . . . that’s what was unique. Özil was part of that later on. Unlike Pep though Wenger always had some weaker players in the side, so we always lived on a knife edge. He loved his players and they loved him. It was art in the beautiful game.

Emery isn’t a flare manager like Wenger, he’s trying to grind out results by meticulous preparation. Much more formulaic and pragmatic, with a high work ethic.If a player doesn’t fit the formulae he’s out by the looks of it. Only time will tell if this mathematical approach can improve on Wenger’s flamboyancy.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

So what are they doing?

Trying to change history

 

[Jury]

People acting like they’ve not rated him for years ain’t just changing minds.

It's not that though. That isn't happening. This is the problem with people arguing for Özil--it's like a strawman production line.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

It's not that though. That isn't happening. This is the problem with people arguing for Özil--it's like a strawman production line.

No it really is. We have people saying he’s been poor for years who were singing his praises this time last season and calling him our best player. Go have a look back in this thread if you don’t believe me.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

is it just about where we finish though? what I find most disappointing is the joyless nature of a lot of our victories, and the sheer incompetence of players and manager behind our defeats

Özil when on form has brought me a lot of pleasure, and even when we win without him, there is little magic in it

we used to play wonderful passing football - but that doesn't seem to be in Emery's blueprint, nor the players capable of it

Bang on. Pragmatism is fine but I want inspiration as well. And if the pragmatism doesn’t deliver anything of note then wtf is the point? Now Emery needs time to show if his pragmatism is worth it, but we don’t have to pretend it’s any fun to watch in the meantime, especially with our most creative player wasting away while we struggle because we’re missing what he does.

 

[Jury]

No it really is. We have people saying he’s been poor for years who were singing his praises this time last season and calling him our best player. Go have a look back in this thread if you don’t believe me.

'Poor for years' on the whole, I'd say they mean. Probably getting pissed off with the one worldie in 15 games pattern. Probably also ready to come clean about going OTT about those games when they happened too.

Cant think of any other reason why they'd suddenly go against Özil... As per, probably nothing to do with football, because we all know him personally and he's just not a very nice man, I can tell you.

 

[Jury]

Bang on. Pragmatism is fine but I want inspiration as well. And if the pragmatism doesn’t deliver anything of note then wtf is the point? Now Emery needs time to show if his pragmatism is worth it, but we don’t have to pretend it’s any fun to watch in the meantime, especially with our most creative player wasting away while we struggle because we’re missing what he does.

Nobody said it would be easy. Did you expect to see amazing things in 6 months and with an injury crisis? How many players did you expect to see come in and leave? It's like you wanted to see the work of a 3 year contract squashed into one transfer window. How do you think we've done there, on transfers?

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Nobody said it would be easy. Did you expect to see amazing things in 6 months and with an injury crisis? How many players did you expect to see come in and leave? It's like you wanted to see the work of a 3 year contract squashed into one transfer window. How do you think we've done there, on transfers?

No I thought post-Wenger we would really struggle. Just as we have. What I don’t like is how we seem to be abandoning the identity and style we had instead of trying to improve on it. I want to keep inspirational and aspirational football, with pragmatism being thrown in where needed. Not overly sytematic joyless football while ostracizing top players. I want us to keep a certain identity like Barca do even when the manager changes.

It’s not where we are, it’s where it seems we’re headed. I just hope I’m wrong.

Edit: on transfers so far, well Torreira looks good, Guendo too though it seems we were interested in him while Wenger was here anyway. I really like Sokratis. Leno... meh not fussed either way. Suarez doesn’t fill me with hope but it’s too early to know. I worry we won’t get top talents any time soon without Wenger (can’t deny his appeal to players), given our budget and likely lack of CL but we’ll see.

 

[El Duderino]

I was listeting to the latest Arsecast with @American_Gooner 's boy Tim Stillman and they raised a good point that I think this will come down to, which is support from the other players.

Unlike Alexis, players seem to really like Özil and I do think that Lacazette and Auba would really prefer to have more options than the Kola Kut Back.

Conversely (and for me to a lesser extent), some players also may feel he's paid way too much and resent him.

If his PR play works, and the results and our style of play keep being below par (with United and Sp**s on the horizon), this could get ugly.

 

[squallman]

6 months after 21 years?

Özil is a player who has been here for six years.

Emery is his manager. Emery reserves the right to do as he wishes with the player. ANY player. Contracts don't come into it. It's like you want to make up new rules based on some philosophical rubbish that doesn't apply to high level sport or business.

Why did I just explain this?

So? Wenger's tenure doesn't say anything about Emery. Moyes got sacked 7 months after Ferguson's quarter of a century reign.

Emery reserves the right.... By that same token Raul reserves the right to do as he wishes with the head coach, whether that be giving him the sack or a contract extension.

There is also cutting off your nose to spite your face. The manager of Barcelona reserves the right to not play Lionel Messi. Same with the United manager and Paul Pogba. Yet they don't do that.

Its all well and good saying the manager can do what he likes. He can but actions have consequences. We could play a team full of Carl Jenkinsons and if we won while playing good football, no one would complain. Managers live and die by results and at some clubs performances (Real Madrid). You do something like leave out your most creative player and don't get results, people will question it.

No manager in football can do as he pleases with no accountability.

I don't know, why is why I'm going to give Emery and the team a chance before saying people should lose their jobs. It also depends on the context of the season, for example those title chasing teams had talent but would squander enough points drop from 1st to 4th in a matter of weeks. This team on the other hand is an imbalanced squad that won't finish any lower than 6th, which is only point off anyway.

I'm not saying he should lose his job, right now, but I'm also not going to sit here and say that wherever we finish and however we play, I want Emery to get another season or two.

Sometimes things just don't work out for whatever reason. It doesn't have to reflect badly on Emery or us. It didn't work for Benitez at Real Madrid. Same for Mourinho there, yet the latter got another job and won the league.

I just don't want to continue with a failed experiment for the sake of doing so or a notion that the manager "deserves" time. If things aren't looking up at the end of the season I would like Raul to shake Emery's hand, thank him for his time then move on to someone else.


IF things aren't working out it makes no sense dragging them out in the hope that there will be a change. If we end the season on the up, then sure I'm all aboard the Emery knows train.

 

[Preacher]

If he has a problem with fitness after all these ilnesses and niggles, he should play 1 or 2 games with reserves, but Özil would never agree with this.

 

[razörist]

This one’s my favorite @blaze_of_glory

So blessed to have this player at our club, Wenger needs to do the right thing and sign a new contract so Özil also signs and make the fans happy. Come on show some ambition and give the fans what we want!