Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[krackpot]

The player quality has gone down but their athleticism has gone up.. We have £10 million players like Sigurdsson going for £45 million to Everton etc.

And what I don't get is when people say EPL teams of today defend better.. Have you seen the calamity defending of the EPL in the last 10 years? Poor defenders etc.. It's a joke seeing EPL teams defend in the last few years.

And do you think today's players are more talented than those of the late 90's and early 2000's?

i hear you. spectators need goals, so the whole sport has changed around to allow the odd goal. if they all started defending like champions, people would lose interest.

the tactics have changed to compensate for the lack of technique...fast aggressive defenders are paired with covering players who ensure that any through ball gets mopped up. also, defenders are much quicker and recover a lot of the time. then you have sweeper keepers, etc.

 

[Zyrth]

Lmao yea I sure do remember the defending of those days. Looked schoolboy compared to today's defenses.

Exactly why we think the players of yesteryears are godly, the defending was shambolic. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're talented but I don't think they can all get their same success in today's football climate.

 

[Jojoba]

i hear you. spectators need goals, so the whole sport has changed around to allow the odd goal. if they all started defending like champions, people would lose interest.

the tactics have changed to compensate for the lack of technique...fast aggressive defenders are paired with covering players who ensure that any through ball gets mopped up. also, defenders are much quicker and recover a lot of the time. then you have sweeper keepers, etc.

True.. But what I think has happened is that we don't have actual defenders today, we have Defensive Midfielders being converted into CB's. You watch teams defending today and you are thinking to yourself, WTF!!, do these players even do defensive drills during training?

And Cesc was so good that he did not need to be closer to the opponents penalty box to do a defence splitting pass. You could see that the opposition always had their back 4's in the the right position all the time, but it was all about Cesc being so good at pinging perfect balls over and in behind their back line all the time. It did not matter if Cesc was just outside our penalty box, he would always ping 70 yard nearly inch perfect passes that got us on counter attacking. With him it did not matter what part of the pitch he was, he always looked to get us in-behind the opposition back line..

 

[Jojoba]

Lmao yea I sure do remember the defending of those days. Looked schoolboy compared to today's defenses.

Exactly why we think the players of yesteryears are godly, the defending was shambolic. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're talented but I don't think they can all get their same success in today's football climate.

For example, Coutinho is going for £170 million, do you think he is better than prime Rosicky? Today the players are overrated..

 

[TheIceman85]

Liverpool are an entertaining team to watch.

wouldn't support them though. wildly inconsistent. At least you know what you're getting with AFC.

Are you saying that even though Arsenal are inconsistent, at least we're consistent about it? Whereas Liverpool are inconsistently inconsistent?

 

[Zyrth]

For example, Coutinho is going for £170 million, do you think he is better than prime Rosicky? Today the players are overrated..

I was talking about the 90s. The defending Rosicky faced isn't that much different to the present state.
Imho, they may be almost similar but for their different style. But they are quality players nonetheless and capable of unlocking defenses. Coutinho is only priced so much more than Rosicky due to inflation and the crazy market.

Though I do not fully agree that today's players are overrated, sure they not seem to have bags of tricks or as much flair anymore but that's because the defenses don't let them anymore.

If anything it's the players from the 90s and 80s that get overrated if we're comparing them with the present batch. The defenses that the previous players have to beat have nothing on the defenses we have now.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Are you saying that even though Arsenal are inconsistent, at least we're consistent about it? Whereas Liverpool are inconsistently inconsistent?

Was wondering the same thing.

 

[Tosker]

Was wondering the same thing.

so Arsenal can be relied on to be crap in some games, whereas Liverpool like to keep their fans and the opposition guessing

I guess being more reliable makes us the better team, yes?

 

[Deathstroke]

Big bags o' cash

Saudi won against Australia (a much better team) in the WCQ. Cannot get my head around it

Squad cost.

 

[krackpot]

Are you saying that even though Arsenal are inconsistent, at least we're consistent about it? Whereas Liverpool are inconsistently inconsistent?

if we won 10 straight games, our supporters would wait for the inevitable loss...Liverpool supporters would take August off for the league parade, and then commit ****.

Was wondering the same thing.

We're **** and we keep being **** generally.

 

[YeahBee]

Just like how the Invincibles wouldn't be able to blitz past Prem teams anymore now. They used to have a go at us and defend with a high line.

I dunno about that

Henry and Patrick are top 5 guys of all times in their positions, highly skilled, driven but most of all athletes in all senses of the word

Dennis well the comparrison with Özil isn't that far fetched, sublime player

Pires a deceptive athlete but highly skilled and driven, almost a proto Cronaldo

Freddie not a superb athlete but that man was more pitbull terrier than Alexis, motivation beats class. he was ranked at the top of meters travelled per game even thou he played less than others (subbed early often)

The back 4? Highly athletic AND skilled

And Jens Frekkin Lehmann, second best german goalkeeper at the time, and as it was behind Oliver muddafacking Kahn it practically means the second best goalie overall

Who would dare fvck-up defensivly like we do all the time nowadays? Jens would burts your eardrums

 

[Zyrth]

I dunno about that

Henry and Patrick are top 5 guys of all times in their positions, highly skilled, driven but most of all athletes in all senses of the word

Dennis well the comparrison with Özil isn't that far fetched, sublime player

Pires a deceptive athlete but highly skilled and driven, almost a proto Cronaldo

Freddie not a superb athlete but that man was more pitbull terrier than Alexis, motivation beats class. he was ranked at the top of meters travelled per game even thou he played less than others (subbed early often)

The back 4? Highly athletic AND skilled

And Jens Frekkin Lehmann, second best german goalkeeper at the time, and as it was behind Oliver muddafacking Kahn it practically means the second best goalie overall

Who would dare fvck-up defensivly like we do all the time nowadays? Jens would burts your eardrums

Lol yeah.. of course I know about them, I grew up watching them!

And I still occasionally watch some clips of them blitzing and terrorizing defenses and that's why I don't think teams back in the days defend as well as the teams do now. Sure the Invincibles were a class act, but there's just something about the opposition defense that makes it a bit more porous than the ones we face today.

 

[YeahBee]

Lol yeah.. of course I know about them, I grew up watching them!

And I still occasionally watch some clips of them blitzing and terrorizing defenses and that's why I don't think teams back in the days defend as well as the teams do now. Sure the Invincibles were a class act, but there's just something about the opposition defense that makes it a bit more porous than the ones we face today.

I completely disagree

the same year Greece won the euros with total system football and even thou them winning out of the blue the same notions they used were somewhat in vogue

Mourinho had done it with Porto to great success already

Valencia won the double with somewhat the same style

italian teams always had their catenaccio etc etc

but most of all

some of the best defenders in the last well ever were active during those years

only guy that comes close nowadays is Thiago Silva IMO

 

[Zyrth]

I completely disagree

the same year Greece won the euros with total system football and even thou them winning out of the blue the same notions they used were somewhat in vogue

Mourinho had done it with Porto to great success already

Valencia won the double with somewhat the same style

italian teams always had their catenaccio etc etc

but most of all

some of the best defenders in the last well ever were active during those years

only guy that comes close nowadays is Thiago Silva IMO

Well, we usually do big up past players. We worship the Invincibles as all conquering but I certainly remember them being inept for some games.

Anyway, I'm only talking about the Prem. The quality of defending back in the 90s was abysmal compared to today. Remember when Chelshit had the likes of Babayaro and Petrescue. I did, and it was great seeing them **** their pants and still not actually tighten up at the back. The problem is these days, the defenders are fitter and tactically smarter. Managers also set up to defend first and hit on the counter against big teams. Back in those days, generally all teams look to have a right go at us, or any big teams for the matter.

I do not deny what you have said. But I'm prolly inferring that the Prem took awhile to adapt to that strategy.

 

[coolaa]

The longer he stays out from the starting 11 the better we will get in league position. Or put it another way, as long as we don't start him against the big or physical teams, I have no problems in seeing Özil on the pitch.

 

[Trilly]

every team Man City plays .

 

[DasBootist]

The longer he stays out from the starting 11 the better we will get in league position. Or put it another way, as long as we don't start him against the big or physical teams, I have no problems in seeing Özil on the pitch.

He's been described as a luxury player by some on this forum and that is apt. He should start in home and away games vs teams set up to just defend against us, but should definitely be a sub against teams planning to counter us.

Unlike Sanchez, I'm not too fussed about him extending his contract, with the emergence of a certain Reiss Nelson.

 

[fc honka]

http://dailycannon.com/2017/09/should-arsenal-drop-Özil-for-the-big-away-games/
quite a good article without any subjective bullshit

"It’s important for me to stress that I don’t think Özil deserves anywhere near the amount of criticism he gets for Arsenal losses. The playmaker being pounded by pundits and the media for Arsenal conceding goals is rather laughable and has illustrated just how much of a scapegoat he is for the team."

http://dailycannon.com/2017/09/Özil-and-alexis-nominated-for-the-fifa-world-11/

Seems also that Mesut is being valued by other professionals.

 

[A_G]

Just imagine...

 

[El Granit-Coq]

Just imagine...

Would likely happen if they win something this season and we don't. Özil is not extending for a reason and even though I (and many others) believe he wants to stay here, things can turn sour quickly and his lollygagging over the contract situation is just influencing such rumors.

Come next season with a team without both Sancez and Özil, with having to rely on Ramsey as the new creator .