Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[yorch44]

But remember we were told that if Arteta gets 4th it’s only because Sp**s and united are worst and it doesn’t mean Arteta or Arsenal deserved it??

Why has it changed that Sp**s and conte are winners when the truth is Arsenal are poor and bottled it?

It changed that Conte actually reverted the situation and set the team working in the most important moments. United played half of the season without a manager. Now they will have a very good manager with CL experience, one who built 2 different CL teams with kids and so little money.

 

[Garrincha]

But remember we were told that if Arteta gets 4th it’s only because Sp**s and united are worst and it doesn’t mean Arteta or Arsenal deserved it??

Why has it changed that Sp**s and conte are winners when the truth is Arsenal are poor and bottled it?

Its Sp**s! You can see on the sideline Conte was nervous as **** in recent weeks but he got a super flakey team thats not his yet to clutch up & close out the season.

In May they only dropped points at Anfield & beat Leicester / Arsenal / Burnley / Norwich with a GD of something like +14... They only conceded two goals.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Its Sp**s! You can see on the sideline Conte was nervous as **** in recent weeks but he got a super flakey team thats not his yet to clutch up & close out the season.

In May they only dropped points at Anfield & beat Leicester / Arsenal / Burnley / Norwich with a GD of something like +14... They only conceded two goals.

Only for Arsenal being really really bad they wouldn’t have got 4th.

It’s that simple.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Still clutching at straws even though real points will always be a much better metric to measure than all your hypothetical expected points bullshit. If the league was played on xpts, Brighton would’ve been in the CL this year.

I included a number of indicators, not just xPTS (which there are obvious reasons for putting emphasis on above others, or at least in summation, especially when discussing a season as flukish as Em*ry's 18-19, but I digress)...wouldn't expect you to read them with anything resembling an open mind, though.

Anyways, even by pts, which paints a terribly misleading picture in Em*ry's case...Em*ry accumulated 88 PTS in his 51 games in charge of Arsenal. 1.725/g. Arteta accumulated 87 in his first 51 despite picking up on Em*ry's 1.38/g pace in 19-20 and moving it directly to 1.65/g that season. So that actually looks much worse for you just using PTS, Em*ry actually looks much worse in the direct comparison, Wenger does too, and Arteta comes out looking best.

Wenger's last 51 games? 88 pts as well.

Regardless of how you shake up the data, it always tells the same story: Wenger to Em*ry to a decline to a level that we haven't seen since pre-Wenger Arsenal in 19/20, and Arteta's reversal of that decline, trending upwards.

If you look at all the information I posted in conjunction, though, and well, can't see the writing on the wall, well, there are only a couple of conclusions and I can come to, and both come with the same result: it's not worth wasting my time discussing with you.

Anyways, the information is all there for posters with something resembling an open mind or interest in honest discussion. It wasn't targeted at you or the people who have reacted, naturally.

 

[Garrincha]

Only for Arsenal being really really bad they wouldn’t have got 4th.

It’s that simple.

We just seem to do well without the pressure & expectations.

Whenever we take the lead for 4th they just **** the bed... when it looks like chance have gone they start playing well again. It was bizarre April & May from us with the teams we beat & the two runs of defeats.

 

[Baki]

I included a number of indicators, not just xPTS (which there are obvious reasons for putting emphasis on above others, or at least in summation, especially when discussing a season as flukish as Em*ry's 18-19, but I digress)...wouldn't expect you to read them with anything resembling an open mind, though.

Anyways, even by pts, which paints a terribly misleading picture in Em*ry's case...Em*ry accumulated 88 PTS in his 51 games in charge of Arsenal. 1.725/g. Arteta accumulated 87 in his first 51 despite picking up on Em*ry's 1.38/g pace in 19-20 and moving it directly to 1.65/g that season. So that actually looks much worse for you just using PTS, Em*ry actually looks much worse in the direct comparison, Wenger does too, and Arteta comes out looking best.

Wenger's last 51 games? 88 pts as well.

Regardless of how you shake up the data, it always tells the same story: Wenger to Em*ry to a decline to a level that we haven't seen since pre-Wenger Arsenal in 19/20, and Arteta's reversal of that decline, trending upwards.

If you look at all the information I posted in conjunction, though, and well, can't see the writing on the wall, well, there are only a couple of conclusions and I can come to, and both come with the same result: it's not worth wasting my time discussing with you.

Anyways, the information is all there for posters with something resembling an open mind or interest in honest discussion. It wasn't targeted at you or the people who have reacted, naturally.

Now you’re combining seasons. Keep your spin up. Fact is, after 3 seasons, Arteta still can’t match Emery 1 season point total of 70pts. That’s despite an investment of 480m into the squad since then. Arteta is a failed project. It’s understandable as it’s his first coaching job, he should never have been given this job in the first place.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

after 3 seasons

you wonder why I don't take you seriously

Arteta still can’t match Emery 1 season point total of 70pts.

The question was why is it true that the club was in a declining trend under Wenger, and that decline was hugely accelerated and aggravated by Em*ry and brought to new lows, and that the trend has been reversed since Arteta's come into the job.

The rest you can debate all you like. But the stats speak for themselves re: that question. The club in the premier league era has never seen such lows as it saw under Unai Em*ry in 19-20 (1.38 pts/g, the pace of an 11th place finish, 14th on xG), and I would argue 18-19 even though the results lied (were we ever out shot by those margins over a full season with Wenger? if it didn't happen in 17-18, and it wasn't even close to it, I think we can safely say no).

Again, if you can read through that information and with a straight face say that that statement above isn't true, well, we don't really have much to discuss.

re: Arteta not matching Em*ry that's having a laugh, tbh...call me crazy, but I don't believe you can control luck / variance, and I much prefer a team that isn't outshot by its opponents (would be interesting to see how many top 5-6 teams have managed this...probably one of the real rarities in the sport), outperforms its xG by 11 pts rather than by 4 (Arteta's case), and finishes with 1 pt less. Doesn't take a genius to tell which team is actually better.

If we're being anything resembling honest, we can say with some certainty, that:

-The best Arsenal teams in the last 5 years are 17-18 and 21-22 (can see arguments for both).
-The worst is 19-20 (and Em*ry's 19-20 version, the one which started the season and spent a pre-season with the manager, is the far worse of the two versions during that season)
-The 18-19 and 20-21 are a much of muchness of mediocrity, again, you can make arguments either way (what you can't argue, of course, is that 18-19 is a positive departure from 17-18, and that 20-21 isn't a positive departure from 19-20 and especially Em*ry's 19-20 version).

Regardless, what we can say with certainty is:

Did Em*ry's stewardship represent a decline from Wenger? YES
Has Arteta's stewardship represented a reversal of the decline experienced under Em*ry? YES

From there reasonable people can start arguing about interesting things, rather than the bloody obvious.

 

[Baki]

Are you talking about me?

I'm not upset and having a go at Conte, I've seen enough of his style to know that he isnt what we should be looking at, from his style of football, to his whinging and leaving after 18-20 months.

If you want to sell your soul for riches, by all means... but actually get someone who will bring in the riches, not a manager that's not even top five in world football.

Imagine twerking for Arteta but thinking Conte is ****. Speaking of whinging, Arteta is whinges all the time but is a ****ing nobody with no track record. Speaking of football style, Arteta plays negative football that is turgid and uninspiring.

Conte is 10x the manager that Arteta thinks he is. The fraud.

 

[Baki]

Regardless, what we can say with certainty is:

Did Em*ry's stewardship represent a decline from Wenger? YES
Has Arteta's stewardship represented a reversal of the decline experienced under Em*ry? YES

From there reasonable people can start arguing about interesting things, rather than the bloody obvious.

Except you can’t say that with certainty. What you can say with certainty is that after 480m of squad investment, Mikel Arteta has failed to match Emery first season achievement of 70pt total.

Emery was sacked after game week 13 hard to say how the season would’ve panned out if he was properly backed. I think sacking him was the right choice and we should’ve sacked Arteta in 2020 when he had an even more dire set of results which had Arsenal in relegation places.

 

[GoonerBoy19]

That’s what we said this season

Yeah but top 4 or Europa league win is must next season. It's time to be back in CL, this season was a write off after first 3 games and we finished above expectations. He should get sack if he can't better these results.

 

[shoot for the top]

Yeah but top 4 or Europa league win is must next season. It's time to be back in CL, this season was a write off after first 3 games and we finished above expectations. He should get sack if he can't better these results.

Why are we writing off the first 3 games?

 

[MartiSaka]

I included a number of indicators, not just xPTS (which there are obvious reasons for putting emphasis on above others, or at least in summation, especially when discussing a season as flukish as Em*ry's 18-19, but I digress)...wouldn't expect you to read them with anything resembling an open mind, though.

Anyways, even by pts, which paints a terribly misleading picture in Em*ry's case...Em*ry accumulated 88 PTS in his 51 games in charge of Arsenal. 1.725/g. Arteta accumulated 87 in his first 51 despite picking up on Em*ry's 1.38/g pace in 19-20 and moving it directly to 1.65/g that season. So that actually looks much worse for you just using PTS, Em*ry actually looks much worse in the direct comparison, Wenger does too, and Arteta comes out looking best.

Wenger's last 51 games? 88 pts as well.

Regardless of how you shake up the data, it always tells the same story: Wenger to Em*ry to a decline to a level that we haven't seen since pre-Wenger Arsenal in 19/20, and Arteta's reversal of that decline, trending upwards.

If you look at all the information I posted in conjunction, though, and well, can't see the writing on the wall, well, there are only a couple of conclusions and I can come to, and both come with the same result: it's not worth wasting my time discussing with you.

Anyways, the information is all there for posters with something resembling an open mind or interest in honest discussion. It wasn't targeted at you or the people who have reacted, naturally.

Are you talking about PL games because I have a few sources that show this is not true if you are:

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...l-with-unai-emery-and-Arsène-wengers-last-50/

50 games, 17 defeats! The sorry Arsenal stats that show Arteta is worse than Emery

Mikel Arteta labelled Arsenal’s performance in their 3-0 home defeat against Liverpool as “unacceptable”. Arsenal...

www.footballtransfers.com

Emery, last 50 PL games, 88 points (only 51 games overall) so if you take first 50 it drops to 87 points.
Wengers, last 50 PL games, 88 points.
Arteta's first 50 PL games, 75 points.


So you were spot on about Emery and Wenger, but not Arteta's record . Where are you getting your numbers from?

This source is supposedly first 50 games but again seems to be different to yours:

Mikel Arteta's Arsenal record compared to Unai Emery's after 50 games in charge

Arsenal's defeat against Liverpool at the weekend was Mikel Arteta's 50th game in charge of the Gunners but his record doesn't make for good reading when compared to Unai Emery's

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[MartiSaka]

Now you’re combining seasons. Keep your spin up. Fact is, after 3 seasons, Arteta still can’t match Emery 1 season point total of 70pts. That’s despite an investment of 480m into the squad since then. Arteta is a failed project. It’s understandable as it’s his first coaching job, he should never have been given this job in the first place.

Not sure his figures are correct anyway.

 

[Haphazard]

But remember we were told that if Arteta gets 4th it’s only because Sp**s and united are worst and it doesn’t mean Arteta or Arsenal deserved it??

Why has it changed that Sp**s and conte are winners when the truth is Arsenal are poor and bottled it?

Because Conte came in halfway through the season and had 1 transfer window and got them Top 4 by having his star players firing on all cylinders with the players he bought providing much needed support.

Meanwhile Arteta has had 3 years , the license to sign/release whoever he wants, over 300m spent yet his fans are calling 5th an overachievement.

 

[Baki]

Why are we writing off the first 3 games?

Because Arteta fans need an excuse to protect their master

 

[1970*Gooner]

We must be the only club that rewards failure.

 

[Makingtrax]

We all know Kane went through a dry spell and wasn't happy at the club. Look at the way Conte dealt with him and the way Arteta dealt with Auba. That tells you all you need to know about this season.

 

[yorch44]

Only for Arsenal being really really bad they wouldn’t have got 4th.

It’s that simple.

So isn't it going really really bad is an indicative that the manager is poor? There is no logic in your arguments. You try to say Arteta is better saying Arsenal is really really bad? Lol

 

[GoonerBoy19]

Why are we writing off the first 3 games?

Because board already gave him an extension, there is no point in cribbing for those results. His position will be judged entirely on how he starts next season. He has been given enough time and results should show more progress. Our performance have very much been like a roller coaster and he needs to fix it ASAP.

 

[Makingtrax]

Verdict:
- lost 13 matches again and conceded more goals, defence going backwards
- still can't make 70 points like Emery and Arsène averaged 75 points a season over 22 years
- Sp**s got ahead because they had the sense to find an experienced manager
- an extension to his contract was a woeful decision
- if we are going to compete around 4th/5th KSE will have to keep out investing other teams in the league on players.
- bar the odd game the football is dull.