Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[Sweet'n'Soulful]

Instead of banging on about Wenger who left years ago you might be better off looking at who owns the club and how they run it.

He’s entitled to bang on about Wenger if others are tbh.

I have no idea why Wengers name often pops up anyway. Once great manager who with age started to struggle and was in quite steep decline. He could no longer motivate the players anymore. He wasnt the first and won’t be the last. He disappeared years ago, is still much loved respected and now we’re trying to get back to where we were with whoever. I wish his name would just disappear from this forum, or at least this thread.

 

[Baki]

Kroenke invests more than enough to win the league. If certain idiots hadn't bought Xhaka and Mustafi and then wasted money on Mkhitaryan and given Özil a 400k a week contract, we'd be top of the league. Wenger cost us 5 years with his senile decision making

Blame Gazidis and the owners for such a terrible management team.

 

[Iceman10]

He’s entitled to bang on about Wenger if others are tbh.

I have no idea why Wengers name often pops up anyway. Once great manager who with age started to struggle and was in quite steep decline. He could no longer motivate the players anymore. He wasnt the first and won’t be the last. He disappeared years ago, is still much loved respected and now we’re trying to get back to where we were with whoever. I wish his name would just disappear from this forum, or at least this thread.

There is one context where it is useful. A faction of fans started to get on Wenger’s back when Top 4 was no longer good enough for them, and that was despite our obvious resource deficit compared with the sugar daddy clubs and United. I blame that toxic environment for affecting Wenger’s performance as much as any “decline” with him. Now we are barely able to get into EL and would kill to be back in the CL so it is more about a faction of fans than Wenger or anything else. It explains why there is pushback when it comes to more turnover of managers now, at least a higher threshold as far as I am concerned. Just pointing that out, although Arteta will have no excuse if we drop out of the EL.

 

[Garrincha]

its not like Wenger did a Fergie either picking his successor or leaving a squad for the future of the club... he was sacked midseason & literally not been back to the club since his send off

the squad he had finished a point off top four season after & reached a european final

 

[Baki]

What you are talking about is getting back into the CL after falling out of the Top 4. That is different from expectations of winning PL titles at that point. The pressure on Wenger started because a certain faction of fans were unrealistic and impatient win expectations for PL titles back around 2014 and that in my view affected Wenger’s job performance. Back in the late 1990s when the club transitioned with manager changes and player buys it was all done with much less volume from fans. None of the “geniuses” would have picked Wenger, and they would be unlikely to go with Bergkamp either, let alone Henry who looked a mess in Italy before he was transformed by Wenger.

There were definitely opportunities to win the Pl at least twice in the last 10 years. We didn’t because proper reinforcements were bot brought in. I blame the ownership and Gazidis because it was clear that they were absolute clowns.

 

[UnitedBeard]

Do you watch enough Brighton game @HairSprayGooners ?

Brighton under Potter is a prime example of team can still playing good football and create chances even with average players. They can create chances but can’t finish them.

Arsenal under Arteta is the opposite. You don’t score not because the lack quality to finish the chances but because you don’t create enough.

Look at the xG below. Brighton xG is above arsenal, are you going to say it’s because Brighton has better creative players than arsenal?

 

[Iceman10]

There were definitely opportunities to win the Pl at least twice in the last 10 years. We didn’t because proper reinforcements were bot brought in. I blame the ownership and Gazidis because it was clear that they were absolute clowns.

Again, I sympathise with your point about PL titles but that was not justification for the “Wenger Out” crowd back around 2012-2014 when we were still in the CL. You might have been frustrated with missed opportunities but Arsène was still overachieving through the stadium transition until the Adidas deals started. Even after the Adidas deals started we were not going to have a stellar squad from day 1. Pressure mounted on Wenger, including from Gazidis, and I do think he was pushed into some buys he didn’t really want. That all resulted in drop out from the Top 4 and that’s when he had to go, not back in 2012-2014 when toxicity from a faction of fans started.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

It's fair to say Wenger should get some blame for losing out to LCFC the season they won. Yes, we needed reinforcements but we also still had it in our own hands and the team had a number of **** performances in the clutch. That is at least partly on the manger.

But saying he destroyed the club is ****ing idiotic and in hindsight it should be even more clear what an amazing job he did over his entire tenure here. His worst-ever season would be considered a miracle finish for us now, and like @Garrincha said the team he had assembled reached the EL final the next year.

The more we've changed away from Wenger's squad and style the worse we've become, though that surely won't be the case forever.

 

[Bloodbather]

There is one context where it is useful. A faction of fans started to get on Wenger’s back when Top 4 was no longer good enough for them, and that was despite our obvious resource deficit compared with the sugar daddy clubs and United.

"Top 4 no longer good enough" view wasn't the explanation for the #WengerOut push that led to us parting ways. We finished outside the Top 4 in his last two seasons, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It appeared clear that there was no way upwards for the club and a fresh start was needed. Earlier #WengerOut calls were unwarranted though, I agree.

That we screwed up the post-Wenger era doesn't mean parting ways with Wenger was the wrong move, or people calling for his departure were in the wrong. It should've been done differently in respect of his legacy with the club, but the idea that Wenger's time had run out wasn't a wrong one. The team had become very uninspiring in his last few seasons.

 

[Iceman10]

"Top 4 no longer good enough" view wasn't the explanation for the #WengerOut push that led to us parting ways. We finished outside the Top 4 in his last two seasons, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It appeared clear that there was no way upwards for the club and a fresh start was needed. Earlier #WengerOut calls were unwarranted though, I agree.

That we screwed up the post-Wenger era doesn't mean parting ways with Wenger was the wrong move, or people calling for his departure were in the wrong. It should've been done differently in respect of his legacy with the club, but the idea that Wenger's time had run out wasn't a wrong one. The team had become very uninspiring in his last few seasons.

You are taking out of context and reluctantly making myself have to repeat. Read my comments in full. I’m not saying when Wenger went he didn’t have to go. I’m part blaming a toxic environment created by our fans from around 2012-2014 that affected his job performance and put pressure on him in my view to make some buys he didn’t really want in conjunction with added pressure from Gazidis. For example Wenger was far from convinced on Mustafi but he was rushed into the buy. “Decline” in part was caused by buys that ended up as deadwood.

 

[Bloodbather]

You are taking out of context and reluctantly making myself have to repeat. Read my comments in full. I’m not saying when Wenger went he didn’t have to go. I’m part blaming a toxic environment created by our fans from around 2012-2014 that affected his job performance and put pressure on him in my view to make some buys he didn’t really want in conjunction with added pressure from Gazidis. For example Wenger was far from convinced on Mustafi but he was rushed into the buy. “Decline” in part was caused by buys that ended up as deadwood.

My mistake, I hadn't seen the post you sent after the one I quoted.

 

[Trilly]

Forum has gone downhill since likes were introduced, incentivizes members to troll, insult and post memes rather than display deep footballing knowledge that OnlyDeep consistently demonstrates.

 

[Trilly]

So Arteta fans are saying we should ignore the league table now?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
I’m sorry this might actually be the best post in this thread.

 

[Iceman10]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
I’m sorry this might actually be the best post in this thread.

If we finish 10th and have no EL football for next season apparently that will be ok with some now, but how much transfer funds will we have then with little help from Kroenke’s, and would Arteta be a good fit for that? Not convinced. I do not believe Arteta is one to extract the most from whatever he has. He’s got a vision of imposing a culture and process which requires building up of his own squad while casting off players he doesn’t like, where their sale prices have been diminished. He won’t have resources to match all of this.

If we get no EL football next season and the Kroenke’s are not going to do something to allow a 80m+ transfer budget he would probably be the wrong fit. I can see what he wants to do, but at the same time it is very rigid and I don’t see much flexibility or creativity.

 

[Blaziken]

hh Kroenke does not put anything in the club. You guys act like arsenal are the only team who've bought flops or underperforming players. the truth is that most teams end up overspending. The difference is that they rectify their mistakes in the market. We blame our situation on transfers from 2016 which is pathetic, why is everyone ignoring that Everton has outspent us in the last 3 years? The problem lies with the owner with him there is no hope.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Chelsea has just done just fine for years by switching out managers like they are iPhone cases. Also, when your manager has you battling for 13/14th, you’re pretty much at rock bottom and need to change.

If Arteta wants to learn how to be a manager, it shouldn’t be at one of the biggest clubs in the world. We shouldn’t be his ducking training wheels. He should go learn the trade at a lower league club and come back when he’s closed to the finished business. We can’t financially afford to be out of the top 6.

I mean... I agree.... But I think that train has already left the station.

 

[Rasmi]

If we finish 10th and have no EL football for next season apparently that will be ok with some now, but how much transfer funds will we have then with little help from Kroenke’s, and would Arteta be a good fit for that? Not convinced. I do not believe Arteta is one to extract the most from whatever he has. He’s got a vision of imposing a culture and process which requires building up of his own squad while casting off players he doesn’t like, where their sale prices have been diminished. He won’t have resources to match all of this.

If we get no EL football next season and the Kroenke’s are not going to do something to allow a 80m+ transfer budget he would probably be the wrong fit. I can see what he wants to do, but at the same time it is very rigid and I don’t see much flexibility or creativity.

If we finish 10th and it’s ok, then surely finish 8th the year after should be seen as improvement and heading the right direction? Right infront of our eyes the standards has been taken down couple of levels. I’m amazed by the quickness we have gone from top 4 is not good enough to no European football is ok. It would be an absolute scandal if Arteta stays without achieving European football. The message the club send will be we are mid table and we are ok with it

 

[Iceman10]

If we finish 10th and it’s ok, then surely finish 8th the year after should be seen as improvement and heading the right direction? Right infront of our eyes the standards has been taken down couple of levels. I’m amazed by the quickness we have gone from top 4 is not good enough to no European football is ok. It would be an absolute scandal if Arteta stays without achieving European football. The message the club send will be we are mid table and we are ok with it

I get what you are saying regarding the message sent by falling out even from EL football and still keeping the manager. It will be rationalised though with excuses while saying being out of EL football is unacceptable but Arteta is still the person to dig the club out of the mess. I just look at AMN, Chambers, Torreira, Guendouzi, and more recently Martinelli as cases of inefficient use of resources he could have had at his disposal. For a long time Pepe was sidelined also. I excuse the Özil case as I would have done the same, and also Saliba, although messing up the loan last summer was inexcusable. Willian also is a case of wastage of resources and keeping on trying to get things to work with Willian has affected tine and development for other players.

All this track record of inefficient use of assets and resources suggests Arteta would just be the wrong manager to take us forward if we fall out of EL and have small transfer budgets as a result. He’s trying to be a Pep or chequebook Mourinho without seeing he doesn’t have the same chequebook to draw on. We would need someone more similar to Brendan Rodgers.

 

[Legend14]

Dont care about Arteta as much as the quality we are putting on the pitch. I’ll trade him for a right back, a CF, a CM and a backup LB.

Way too much stock in managers. There are not that many who are world class and will have any more of an impact than Arteta today. All of these manager have there own issues, its just a matter of what flavor you can tolerate.

 

[<<reed>>]

What would it take to change your mind?

He deserves to stay if he secures European football for the next season.

The thing is if we had the financial might of those clubs Arteta would probably work.

But that's guesswork at best. "Arteta worked for Pep and Pep works at rich clubs so if you give Arteta Pep's transfer kitty he will be as good as Pep" is just wishful thinking, nothing more.