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Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

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On a scale from 1-10 (the most), how much faith do you have in Arteta?

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  1. Baguette

    Baguette Le Manberg Français

    Me and my fellow manbergs have been backing Arteta’s corner since day 0. I’m so proud. Keep fighting the good fight. Peace and love to you all!
     
    Riou likes this.
  2. Iceman10

    Iceman10 Well-Known Member

    I’m just a bit on the conservative side in terms of general resistance against chopping and changing managers if the risk is the next manager will be hated by the same faction of fans baying for blood in the present within 12-18 months. I also take into account severance costs as those hit our transfer budgets.

    That said, I knew when Arsène Wenger’s and Unai Emery’s time was up, and thought Arteta’s future was in the balance after the loss against Burnley, but my view remains to assess Arteta at the end of the season, and if he hasn’t qualified for EL he has underachieved.

    I do see progression after getting defensive fundamentals right with 4231 and I like the fact that for once in a long time we have decent interchangeability among CB’s without much loss in performance. We have to get the CM part of the spine competitive with the best in the league by this summer and we need to get the creative unit being consistently sharp and polish up our set pieces also, esp. corners.

    Back in December I was concerned if Arteta was hurting our Hale End pipeline potential. That has reduced somewhat, but there are critical decisions right now as to whether to loan out 2-3 players (Reiss? Willock? Eddie?).

    I do remain concerned about Arteta’s man management, but tine will tell if he has been right to significantly dent valuations of certain assets (players) at the club so much for the sake of overall training and dressing room culture.
     
    Squillaci likes this.
  3. DUFFMAN

    DUFFMAN Well-Known Member

    Where does this man management nonsense theory even come from??
     
  4. Iceman10

    Iceman10 Well-Known Member

    It is mainly unknowns that we will learn about over time. With Guendouzi, AMN. I’m not so much bothered about Özil because I even backed Emery when he did what he did. There are also some questions about even-handedness, like the Pepe red vs. the Xhaka red, and stuff like that.
     
  5. Riou

    Riou A-M's Resident Jobber

    Other people who support Arteta reading this and thinking...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  6. Baguette

    Baguette Le Manberg Français

    All are welcome in our cult. Hugs and kisses. :thumbsup:
     
    Riou likes this.
  7. bingobob

    bingobob A-M’s Resident Hunskelper Trusted

    Over half way through the season and we've the second best defence in the league. Scored 14 goals in our last 6 league games. Mikel, well done. He knows what he is doing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  8. Taneruit

    Taneruit Well-Known Member

    BTW: The recent run of form has brought Artetas win ratio back up to more than 58% / 1.9 Points per Game.

    60 Matches 35 Wins 9 Draws 16 Losses

    Comparatively Unai Emery had a win ratio of more than 53% / 1.84 Points per Game.
    How are you concerned about Guendouzi? He's now been through 3+ teams and started **** in all of them. And he's really not good enough nor Arsenal in a position for him to get Diva treatement.
     
    Moleque and bingobob like this.
  9. Bigby3

    Bigby3 Active Member

    Vive la résistance!
     
  10. say yes

    say yes Thread Title Abuser

    Makes me sad how quick people on here have been to turn on him when there are evident signs of progress. He’s a very promising young manager.

    Think it’s just the way football has become in the social media age. No patience and everyone in a rush to see who can have the definitive judgement first.
     
  11. Macho

    Macho Has Trust Issues With Processes Trusted

    He's still not for me I'm gonna be honest. Didn't want him in the first place, won me over with the cup run but a lot of things he's said and done since summer I can't really see myself getting on side anytime soon.

    He's done enough to stay on I guess, but whenever his time ends I will shed no tears, he's just really not my cup of tea.

    He pretty much has free reign to lose any match Saka and ESR aren't able to start and his decision making is hardly ever questioned outside the fanbase.
     
    Moah and SA Gunner like this.
  12. SingmeasongSong

    SingmeasongSong Right Sometimes

    In addition, I think that nowadays, if you aren't so massively superior in individual quality as e.g. City is, the gaps have tightened so so much.

    Every team has some really good players that can win it on their day, every team has high-end statistics, analysis, scouts and similarly good tactics on the field.

    In terms of physical fitness, which was the most decisive factor in in the past, there are probably almost no differences anymore, if you have set up your quad correctly.

    Then there's the defensive blocks of smaller teams.. it's just a very different world.

    I absolutely love our teams from the early wenger days, but dont be fooled that they would not have very ugly days with that kind of professionalism for all teams in the league.

    If your opponent is up for a very dirty game and everyone in their team is ready for a fight, you can be certain it won't be a pretty win.
     
    say yes likes this.
  13. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Dr. Pangloss

    Because the players are pretty crap after Saka and ESR.
     
  14. Macho

    Macho Has Trust Issues With Processes Trusted

    Wenger, Emery and majority of the league have crap players too. Too many readily made excuses and so much protection for this guy, it's kinda fraudulent.

    You get some that question the manager, but all season long the players have been taking a beating whenever something goes wrong.
     
    Moah likes this.
  15. Baguette

    Baguette Le Manberg Français

    Look how Utd have won so many points. Many agree that Ole’s not a great tactical coach but a good man manager. They’ve often played poorly but individual brilliance throughout their team has won them points. Pogba, Rashford, Martial etc. We haven’t been getting points like that because clearly we don’t have that level of individual quality. Tactically, Arteta’s excellent but he doesn’t yet have the individual quality to suit his system. It’s going to take much longer than one year to get it right.
     
    Blood on the Tracks likes this.
  16. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Dr. Pangloss

    There's a difference between crap players, players who fight for the badge and work hard during tough times and then just players who are pure class and drag you through. I'm talking purely from an attacking standpoint.

    In his "darker" days Wenger had Özil, Alexis, Ramsey, Cazorla, Wilshere... and earlier RVP, Nasri, Fabregas. No crap players there. Özil, Ramsey and an on fire Aubameyang were performing for Emery, not crap at the time.

    Majority of the league don't have crap attackers come on mate. The only team above us that are completely overachieving with their attacking players are West Ham.

    You've quite clearly seen the difference when we start Saka and ESR to when we start Willian. And to be honest I think its just having a quality number 10 that's making the real difference, which is what I've been saying for months.

    We just needed confidence and a proper number 10, and its showing. We don't really have any superstar players who can do something from nothing, Saka is the closest thing we have and is taking on that role.
     
  17. Macho

    Macho Has Trust Issues With Processes Trusted

    I don't think our attackers are crap though and I've gone against most of the forum on this even on our darkest days, rest of the league would kill for some of our options.

    In turn, the attackers dominating the first half of the league we wouldn't have wanted a lot of them here anyways.

    I just don't think Mikel is the best at maximising what he has, which is the opposite of the propaganda that was spreading when he was first appointed.
     
    Moah likes this.
  18. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Dr. Pangloss

    The thing is what have we seen these players do? Especially recently.

    • I've watched Lacazette fluff multiple chances to score, he's had so many one on ones and ruined it this season. He's in good form right now, but he wouldn't get into any other top 10 side except West Ham. Are you expecting Arteta to coach Lacazette to finish better? No, he's 29 and just isn't good enough overall. Arteta has him working his balls off every game for most of the game now and he's linking play well now. He's getting the most out of Lacazette.
    • Pepe is Mr inconsistent, Bayern Munich didn't sign him because he needs too much space and time, that is coming to fruition. Would any other manager in the league get more out of Pepe?
    • Is Arteta telling Willian to run forward, stop, pass back? No, its because his confidence is shot. He's not playing well but he looks like he lacks belief, and this is quite obvious when we see Saka playing in the same role, driving at players and beating players, Saka rarely passes back. So the instruction clearly isn't pass back. Same thing happens with Bellerin, bloke can't drive forward he doesn't have the ability, so he passes backwards but Arteta gets the blame for that.
    And then obviously you have Auba who is just in bad form, have no issues with him and he'll come good. He's getting the chances to score now ESR is in the side. But again, what do you expect from Auba without a creative source? Auba can't beat a man, he's not good at dribbling and he isn't an elite passer. Auba is a world class finisher with world class movement but that's about it.

    You're trying to say that Arteta could squeeze more out of players who are nearly all quite limited in what they can do. I think he's squeezed the most out of Lacazette, he's doing excellent with Saka, Tierney, Holding and even Xhaka. You can't tell me he isn't squeezing the absolute most out of Xhaka?

    In our squad you have players who are champions league worthy, you have players who are top 8 worthy and then you have players who aren't even worthy of the top 10, players that wouldn't get into any other top 10 side at the moment.
     
  19. Macho

    Macho Has Trust Issues With Processes Trusted

    Exactly what I am saying, a better coach would get more out of a lot of these guys in my opinion.

    Laca the two one on ones that stick out in your mind was Liverpool and Southampton - both games where he still scored but typically only the misses matter to some. His conversion rate is still amongst the high end in the league.

    Saka has fluffed a number of one on ones and you wouldn't call him a limited player, so yeah hard disagree for me.

    Pepe has been absolutely ruined and has no future here, some of it is because of his own deficiencies but getting Willian to squash him was really unnecessary.

    There's just loads of things I've repeated many times and I can't be bothered but convincing the world that this team was relegation to save his own neck is exactly why I just don't rate Arteta.
     
    Moah likes this.
  20. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    Think he did cost us some points this season with his stupidity. Funny thing is that the same changes he has made were the ones that fans were asking for, but what do fans know.
    I'll say just by accepting he was wrong is enough for me to give him a pass for this season, no matter how it ends.
    Hopefully, sexy football with younger players will be on the table in the future
     
    Riou likes this.

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