Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[samspade]

I found the "would you take 4th?" discussion way more appropriate and interesting instead of trudging through old ground.

As in you’d prefer we discuss that now?

I’m cautious as most people are, so would be tempted to say yes. But caution does not lead to greatness. If this squad is going to do what we all want it too, it needs to let it all hang out.

So if I had magic button that would guarantee arsenal get fourth, I wouldn’t push it. I wouldn't push it because if it’s going to be something to remember, it needs to be allowed to go further than we’d dare to hope.

 

[Macho]

As in you’d prefer we discuss that now?

I’m cautious as most people are, so would be tempted to say yes. But caution does not lead to greatness. If this squad is going to do what we all want it too, it needs to let it all hang out.

So if I had magic button that would guarantee arsenal get fourth, I wouldn’t push it. I wouldn't push it because if it’s going to be something to remember, it needs to be allowed to go further than we’d dare to hope.

CL football would do too much for the clubs revenue and available player pool, so regardless of how it ends even if Arsenal limp over the line it would still be an easy sale for the majority of players the club would want.

The only way I'd be tempted to let it all hang out was if it was guaranteed Arsenal pushed forward their summer business to Jan - or at least spent 30-50 mil net (1 player purchase and loan something creative). Assuming there was such a button of course.

 

[A_G]

I found the "would you take 4th?" discussion way more appropriate and interesting instead of trudging through old ground.

The discussion doesn’t really begin until @Makingtrax tells us “Imagine if fans had signed for 4th when we had a a manager that delivered it for 20 years, instead of flying plane banners and boycotting matches.”

 

[db10_therza]

For me you have to earn your right to do the latter or atleast have a track record for it. Personally I'd say Arteta hasn't? but a fan could argue he did that with the FA Cup win.

I feel like after a derby win this discussion is undeserved anyways. He 100% should have gotten sacked and been way more resourceful, he didn't but is doing the business now so lets see where he goes. It seems the club were willing to absorb all his mistakes and knew better than I what they were signing up for.

I found the "would you take 4th?" discussion way more appropriate and interesting instead of trudging through old ground.

Yeah - and I think goes to what most people’s issue with arteta fundamentally boils down to regardless of how they dress it up - ie he wasn’t ready.

That being said the wenger analogy works here too, he didn’t exactly have a glowing CV when he came…

Btw this isn’t me saying arteta has knocked the ball out the park. As I’ve said before, I just have a lot of time for managers who have a long term plan/vision and I’m willing to suffer some short term pain for long term gain. I love it when a plan comes together. I have very little time for “pragmatic” managers who can “do a job” playing dogged football.

 

[samspade]

CL football would do too much for the clubs revenue and available player pool, so regardless of how it ends even if Arsenal limp over the line it would still be an easy sale for the majority of players the club would want.

The only way I'd be tempted to let it all hang out was if it was guaranteed Arsenal pushed forward their summer business to Jan - or at least spent 30-50 mil net (1 player purchase and loan something creative). Assuming there was such a button of course.

If we have any money left, signing someone in January is key

 

[db10_therza]

If we have any money left, signing someone in January is key

I’m sure we can invent some Asian betting company to release some funds that will get us past the FFP post

 

[drippin]

If we have any money left, signing someone in January is key

They bid 25 million pounds for Douglas Luiz, so I'm 80% sure they will buy someone in January. I would be 99% sure, but they didn't sign anyone last January either when I thought they surely will.

 

[theHotHead]

If we come second this year, we have strongly overachieved. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise

By most metrics I've seen 4th-5th is about par. Personally I'd say 4th.

Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea should all finish above us you'd think.

Huh????

Man City yes, Liverpool have been ****e and Chelsea have done nothing to suggest they are even in the argument. In the same way other teams have taken advantage of our poor form we should be doing the same to others. At the moment we look like the joint best team in the league, last season we should've finished 4th, we have brought in some great players this season, so how on earth is 4th-5th about par ??

 

[MaraDon]

the despair.
We are playing well, Mikel was the right guy. You have been proven wrong, in football, it happens a lot.
You wanted Granit and Arteta out, you have been proven to know nothing about the sport you are a fan of, it happens. Grow up and stop being a stubborn child, using excuses like money backing, the league is not as strong, he had 4 years, etc. And use this experience to learn about it.

Most people watch football the way they enjoy perfumes, I like it, it smells nice, and I get compliments. Ok, but what are the notes, the accords the inspiration? they have no idea.
Football is the same, you can enjoy it or you can know about it, to understand football you need to study, to watch games, to listen to interviews, analyze, watch teams train, to come from a family of footballing people, it is not easy.

it's sad, really.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Mister wenger would be proud of this. Ødegaard also have 27 goal creating actions.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Huh????

Man City yes, Liverpool have been ****e and Chelsea have done nothing to suggest they are even in the argument. In the same way other teams have taken advantage of our poor form we should be doing the same to others. At the moment we look like the joint best team in the league, last season we should've finished 4th, we have brought in some great players this season, so how on earth is 4th-5th about par ??

Most metrics would have us about 4th, squad cost, wage bill is probably lower than that. I think most expectations from fans before the season would be we'd be hovering around 4th.

It's fine saying we've looked better than Liverpool and Chelsea so far and I agree but they've played 7 games. But I'm in no way writing those sides off yet based on what they've shown so far and our relatively kind fixture list to date.

I feel both of those squads are more equipped to deal with fatigue and injuries too which could be pivotal this season with the WC messing things around.

If we're in 2nd after 25-30 games then I'll change my tune, but I'm not letting myself get too excited based off a pretty small sample size of games so far, though we do look good.

 

[Trilly]

Oh brother.

 

[theHotHead]

Not being a professional football manager I might be wrong, but I doubt it is as easy as your post makes it seem. Since how a team attacks isn't detached from how a team defends it unfortunately isn't as simple as just "focus on the defense" and keep the offense, whatever that means. This is the take of a lazy football pundit.

But it is though, we have seen it time and time again, there are countless examples of it. Its how Allardyce and Hughes made a living, going to relegation threatened clubs and getting them to improve defensively with the same players.

Look at Arsenal, players fed up of getting our arses handed to us against the top teams, pleaded with Wenger to let them pay a more defensive game against Man City away, he relented, we came away with a 0-2 victory (Walcott, Cazorla et al). Our run to the Champions League final, we played one up top (Henry) and packed the midfield with 5 players, making us more difficult to break through. End result, went to the Bernabeu and beat Real Madrid 0-1 getting a standing ovation at the end of the game from opposing fans. Went to the Stadio Delle Alpi and got a 0-1 win against Juventus.

Wenger never played that way again because he became obsessed making us Barcelona wannabes. I am not talking about extreme changes, I am talking about not going gung-ho every single attack, I am talking about not over committing which should allow our offensive capability to still function and not leave the team with gaping holes all over the pitch.

 

[Trilly]

But tbf we caused them a lot of problems when we played them at home last season.

Our game against them will be tasty that's for sure.

They were at the back end of a 3 games in 7 days road trip so I’m a bit cynical.

I’d like to see how we do this season though.

 

[theHotHead]

I didn’t say I disagreed with anything in my post. I implied I thought you were hot headed… it’s so long ago now I can’t be bothered to read through it all but a cursory glance tells me you used 4 question marks at the end of your first sentence which is usually a dead giveaway…

Was just a cheap joke, don’t take it too seriously. I couldn’t help myself

aaah no worries, furry muff.

 

[theHotHead]

Way too much here for me to unpack and I’m sure others will anyway.

Here’s a thought for you though: is being purely ‘pragmatic’ and ‘working with what you have’ the best way to guarantee sustained success?

Or is ripping things up and (painfully) instituting a new paradigm of football everyone can get behind with young players a better way to reach that objective?

I take your point, but surely ripping things up and painfully implementing something new was unnecessary and over the top, like opening a nut with a sledgehammer. Lets look at Arteta's starting point squad-wise from the 2019-20 season when, he inherited the following:
Martinez, Leno, Tierney, Bellerin Holding, Chambers, Soares, Kolasinac, Sokratis, Mustafi, Luiz, Saka, Willock, Guendouzi, Xhaka, Torreira, Ceballos, AMN, Özil, Martinelli, Nketiah, Pepe, Laca, Auba, Nelson, Elneny, Saliba.

The players in bold I think are either better or as good as what we have currently in the SQUAD (not talking starting 11 necessarily) or ARE currently in the squad. 7 of those players in bold are defacto first team squad players right now, 5 of them are defacto first team starters. I could argue we didn't need Ramsdale because we had Martinez who was miles better than Leno, Guendouzi and Torreira could've been utilised because Torreira is a better CDM than Elneny and Guendouzi is better than Lokonga. Up until this season I would also say both should start ahead of Xhaka all day every day but Xhaka has shown a level this season I am beginning to appreciate. There was nothing wrong with Auba, the problem was the system and it was a mistake to send Saliba out on loan again.

So taking my point of view, I have no problem with what Arteta did with the defence, but apart from the defence all he has done is get rid of a load of fringe players that were irrelevant anyway. Our midfield is still the problem area. For me the change that has had the biggest impact is the system, because now Partey can play his natural game and not have to worry about babysitting Xhaka who is now further forward where he has more time and space on the ball and where his mistakes will not be catastrophic.

We are no longer slinging in crosses every 2 mins to a CF we didn't have, we are no longer playing 4-2-3-1 which totally killed our creativity.

 

[BergMan]

Arteta deserves more praise than anyone. He has got the fans believing in the team again, and it was always his vision.

 

[theHotHead]

As in you’d prefer we discuss that now?

I’m cautious as most people are, so would be tempted to say yes. But caution does not lead to greatness. If this squad is going to do what we all want it too, it needs to let it all hang out.

So if I had magic button that would guarantee arsenal get fourth, I wouldn’t push it. I wouldn't push it because if it’s going to be something to remember, it needs to be allowed to go further than we’d dare to hope.

I feel this team right now has the beating of every team in the league and we should be able to give a game to Man City. Big talk I know, but I have my belief back in Arsenal right now, I am loving football again. Kudos to Arteta. If Man City take us lightly I feel they will lose. Our weakness is quality in depth especially in he middle of the park

 

[Makingtrax]

Well then you’re not a WUM, but a lunatic.

Lol. This is how the cancel culture works. One throws out an insult and the rest of the pack pile on with the likes @samspade , @CaseUteinberger @Dj_sds @drippin This is social media for you. No one is allowed an opposite view.

Really, all of us ought to be happy that Arteta has stopped making mistakes and has finally started playing attacking football with all these quality players, thanks to KSE’s incredible backing. Despite what you think, I’m really not that sore that Wenger didn’t get this kind of support, if it means we can finally get back into the top4 again. He sort of didn’t need it with his ability. Although I’m sure he would have won the league quite easily.

 

[Makingtrax]

I mostly have Trax on ignore,

The ignore route, you really are insecure.