Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

You're exposing your agenda not answering my points from yesterday, and just repeating the same stuff where our argument started.

Never seen someone do that.

I answered all your questions but because they don’t fit with your narrative you keep on going.

 

[Makingtrax]

Remember the ancient wisdom of @Makingtrax that squad cost only applies when your agenda needs it. Otherwise you can just take the best time frame for money spent you need, to make your argument look better.

In Chelsea's case it doesn't matter that they have been able to sell huge amount of players in the past decade, and as so build the team they want, while Emery & Arteta has inherited a team where you can't make nearly as many good sales, because the players are injury-prone, old or not good enough.

Here we go. Because I don’t tow your line, rubbishing me to other posters to get a pack mentality going. It’s not going to work bro. Some of us came through the Wenger wars of 15/16.

 

[Makingtrax]

Depends what perspective you take. If you gave someone a pot of money equal in size to the cost of Chelsea’s squad (wages included) and did the same for someone else but it was equal in size to the cost of arsenalss squad, you’d expect the first person to do better as they have more money to spend.
But after both have spent the cash and the first person has sp*nked most of it on dross and the second person has intelligently assembled a better squad squad, you’d expect the second person to finish ahead.

Arsenals squad had its problems but it was a better squad than Chelsea’s going into the most recent window and easier to build on.

Come on 19/20 to 22/23 window. First one good, second one dross, third one quite good, fourth one excellent. Our transfers haven’t been plain sailing. Fortunately KSE have allowed Arteta to jettison the mistakes he made very quickly.

 

[Makingtrax]

It’s actually trax who made me the Wum I am today. I used to be a deadly serious poster. but got sick of arguing in circles with him while he threw in some wum comments for good measure. So I started WUMing myself to ease the frustration.
A few people took exception to that
But thanks trax, for teaching me the joys of wuming

Cheers bro, but I’m not a WUM. Unlike you I genuinely believe the stuff I write.

 

[samspade]

Come on 19/20 to 22/23 window. First one good, second one dross, third one quite good, fourth one excellent. Our transfers haven’t been plain sailing. Fortunately KSE have allowed Arteta to jettison the mistakes he made very quickly.

People just don’t understand hypotheticals do they?

I’m trying to make a conceptual point about expectations given an amount of money to spend vs expectations given squad quality once the money has been spent.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Thats not really saying much considering where we were though, we were desperate to get a manager that had a level of competency and even after winning the FA Cup we were not sure about Arteta - especially when he should've been sacked that Christmas having us in15th place and playing the worst football I ave seen from ANY Arsenal team.

Lets also get something else straight, people harp on about the big rebuild that was required and yadda yadda ya, hogwash ! Consider the following; Wenger gave no time to defending, he was purely offensive in his philosophy. Had he committed 20% more focus on the defensive side of the game we could've bridged the small gap from 6th to 4th with the players we had.

In comes Emery, all he had to do was focus on the defensive side a bit - there was noting wrong with us offensively. He brought in a new keeper and CB and a defacto DM and he managed to be WORSE than the previous manager who didn't give a toss about defending LOL !!!! No major rebuild was required. Get the best out of the players that you have ! Wenger failed, Emery failed.

In comes Arteta who showed pragmatism at first, so much so that we beat some big dogs and won the FA Cup. Then he turned into a ****tard, he decimated our attack and our defence was awful, we played the worst football I have seen. Good managers find a system that suits the players, where Arteta showed pragmatism previously that all went out of the window. He insisted for the following 2 seasons on systems that didn't suit the players we have.

Not being a professional football manager I might be wrong, but I doubt it is as easy as your post makes it seem. Since how a team attacks isn't detached from how a team defends it unfortunately isn't as simple as just "focus on the defense" and keep the offense, whatever that means. This is the take of a lazy football pundit.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

The impotent rage and bitter tears of the diehard Arteta outers. Page after page...

 

[dka1]

Even worse those ten pages are 90% you and other Arteta fans coming here to wind other Arsenal fans up.

Yeah...I'm no longer Arteta out and I've admitted that I was wrong in that I never saw him doing what he's achieving this season, also I've praised Edteta for their signings as well as it's part of the job.

Arteta is doing good this season for sure and I think he did well during runs of last season (though this point is more contentious for some).

Cool.

But all that said, the Arteta In fans here gloating are goddamn I-N-S-U-F-F-E-R-A-B-L-E.

And what makes it funnier is that so many of you tucked tail and completely vanished from the forum as soon as things got even the tiniest bit hard (I'm talking about the run of 3 losses starting with the loss at Palace away). LoL and now you're making out like you're somehow superior fans? Puhlease.

Some of you even started doubting whether Arteta was the right man, after only 3 losses (3 LOSSES only 3) and I had to be here defending Arteta from the other bunch of clowns that only re-appeared after things got difficult for the team.

Who I have the utmost respect for is Grange and Riou because they never left when things were bad, I remember it clearly they caught pelters but atleast they stayed. I've had my differences with Grange but he has every right the talk sh!t lol.

If we lost even two in a row most of you would probably bounce or start wavering given prior evidence........smh.

 

[sergio_giorgini]

Cheers bro, but I’m not a WUM. Unlike you I genuinely believe the stuff I write.

Well then you’re not a WUM, but a lunatic.

 

[drippin]

I answered all your questions but because they don’t fit with your narrative you keep on going.

You didn't for example answer why you picked the comparison to start from the summer 19/20 when Arteta wasn't even the manager.

 

[drippin]

Here we go. Because I don’t tow your line, rubbishing me to other posters to get a pack mentality going. It’s not going to work bro. Some of us came through the Wenger wars of 15/16.

Again, no we don't. You don't answer my point here on the inherited squad costs and quality over the years, just try to divert the attention elsewhere.

 

[Macho]

Yeah...I'm no longer Arteta out and I've admitted that I was wrong in that I never saw him doing what he's achieving this season, also I've praised Edteta for their signings as well as it's part of the job.

Arteta is doing good this season for sure and I think he did well during runs of last season (though this point is more contentious for some).

Cool.

But all that said, the Arteta In fans here gloating are goddamn I-N-S-U-F-F-E-R-A-B-L-E.

And what makes it funnier is that so many of you tucked tail and completely vanished from the forum as soon as things got even the tiniest bit hard (I'm talking about the run of 3 losses starting with the loss at Palace away). LoL and now you're making out like you're somehow superior fans? Puhlease.

Some of you even started doubting whether Arteta was the right man, after only 3 losses (3 LOSSES only 3) and I had to be here defending Arteta from the other bunch of clowns that only re-appeared after things got difficult for the team.

Who I have the utmost respect for is Grange and Riou because they never left when things were bad, I remember it clearly they caught pelters but atleast they stayed. I've had my differences with Grange but he has every right the talk sh!t lol.

If we lost even two in a row most of you would probably bounce or start wavering given prior evidence........smh.

You forgot boon who took his fair share of pelters and is just carrying on with his business

You can tell who it's personal for and who it's not and is just enjoying and hoping it continues. For the record I think some gloating is earned as long as it's not straight up insults. Speaking for myself I didn't mind the smoke at all but I've got the muzzle slapped on so i've just kept it positive.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

You didn't for example answer why you picked the comparison to start from the summer 19/20 when Arteta wasn't even the manager.

Again, no we don't. You don't answer my point here on the inherited squad costs and quality over the years, just try to divert the attention elsewhere.

You know you are on a fool's errand, don't you? I think going WUM like @samspade is the only realistic option, or come to the conclusion @sergio_giorgini has come to...

On a serious note: Think A-M has gone through the Valley of Death and it will take some time to repair it. There has just been too much vitriol and BS on all sides for it to be happy days again immediately. Time will heal all wounds I hope though. Heck, if I can find my peace with old Granit and even come to kind of like him, my hope is that there is hope for everyone to realign!

 

[drippin]

You know you are on a fool's errand, don't you? I think going WUM like @samspade is the only realistic option, or come to the conclusion @sergio_giorgini has come to...

On a serious note: Think A-M has gone through the Valley of Death and it will take some time to repair it. There has just been too much vitriol and BS on all sides for it to be happy days again immediately. Time will heal all wounds I hope though. Heck, if I can find my peace with old Granit and even come to kind of like him, my hope is that there is hope for everyone to realign!

I mostly have Trax on ignore, because it's a broken record, it's always the same stuff for the same purpose, which is mostly to make Wenger look as good as possible. Just sometimes I like to expose his agenda, because his broken record game is so strong.

 

[db10_therza]

Nothing hotheaded about my post, tell me what it is you disagree with instead of stupid sly attacks, or is my post too well put together for you to do so ?! I dunno, I am new here so I don't know the dunces from the smart ones yet.

I didn’t say I disagreed with anything in my post. I implied I thought you were hot headed… it’s so long ago now I can’t be bothered to read through it all but a cursory glance tells me you used 4 question marks at the end of your first sentence which is usually a dead giveaway…

Was just a cheap joke, don’t take it too seriously. I couldn’t help myself

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

At the end of the day we're all Arsenal fans and want the club to do well.

If Arteta really starts doing well even the fans who don't like his personality or ways will tolerate / respect him. He's never going to be a beloved figure like Arsène was, and that's absolutely fine.

Keep improving and ultimately win trophies and everything's good

 

[db10_therza]

Thats not really saying much considering where we were though, we were desperate to get a manager that had a level of competency and even after winning the FA Cup we were not sure about Arteta - especially when he should've been sacked that Christmas having us in15th place and playing the worst football I ave seen from ANY Arsenal team.

Lets also get something else straight, people harp on about the big rebuild that was required and yadda yadda ya, hogwash ! Consider the following; Wenger gave no time to defending, he was purely offensive in his philosophy. Had he committed 20% more focus on the defensive side of the game we could've bridged the small gap from 6th to 4th with the players we had.

In comes Emery, all he had to do was focus on the defensive side a bit - there was noting wrong with us offensively. He brought in a new keeper and CB and a defacto DM and he managed to be WORSE than the previous manager who didn't give a toss about defending LOL !!!! No major rebuild was required. Get the best out of the players that you have ! Wenger failed, Emery failed.

In comes Arteta who showed pragmatism at first, so much so that we beat some big dogs and won the FA Cup. Then he turned into a ****tard, he decimated our attack and our defence was awful, we played the worst football I have seen. Good managers find a system that suits the players, where Arteta showed pragmatism previously that all went out of the window. He insisted for the following 2 seasons on systems that didn't suit the players we have.

Way too much here for me to unpack and I’m sure others will anyway.

Here’s a thought for you though: is being purely ‘pragmatic’ and ‘working with what you have’ the best way to guarantee sustained success?

Or is ripping things up and (painfully) instituting a new paradigm of football everyone can get behind with young players a better way to reach that objective?

 

[db10_therza]

Way too much here for me to unpack and I’m sure others will anyway.

Here’s a thought for you though: is being purely ‘pragmatic’ and ‘working with what you have’ the best way to guarantee sustained success?

Or is ripping things up and (painfully) instituting a new paradigm of football everyone can get behind with young players a better way to reach that objective?

Further to this, largely directed at @Makingtrax: which of those 2 do you think Arsène did when he came in?

 

[jones]

I mostly have Trax on ignore

Is this like when you said you almost had me on ignore? Why does Drippin get a different forum engine to everyone else @albakos?

 

[Macho]

Way too much here for me to unpack and I’m sure others will anyway.

Here’s a thought for you though: is being purely ‘pragmatic’ and ‘working with what you have’ the best way to guarantee sustained success?

Or is ripping things up and (painfully) instituting a new paradigm of football everyone can get behind with young players a better way to reach that objective?

For me you have to earn your right to do the latter or atleast have a track record for it. Personally I'd say Arteta hasn't? but a fan could argue he did that with the FA Cup win.

I feel like after a derby win this discussion is undeserved anyways. He 100% should have gotten sacked and been way more resourceful, he didn't but is doing the business now so lets see where he goes. It seems the club were willing to absorb all his mistakes and knew better than I what they were signing up for.

I found the "would you take 4th?" discussion way more appropriate and interesting instead of trudging through old ground.