Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[drippin]

What we’ve got now is working well. I’m just saying it’s not normal for a manager to have a system he wants to play and the club has to buy a unique set of players to fit it.

How does all this fit Ten Hag and United? Do you think he will be able to succeed with the players he has (he has used a lot of money already), and/or can he play the way he likes with the players he has?

 

[drippin]

There are probably only one or two players I could really say we should have kept from the first team 3 years ago.

@Makingtrax liked this?? How can it be?? It downplays the level and prospects of the squad that Wenger left behind and Emery and Arteta had to fix?

 

[avenellroad]

What we’ve got now is working well. I’m just saying it’s not normal for a manager to have a system he wants to play and the club has to buy a unique set of players to fit it.

For whatever reason the club has decided to go with it. We have had two seasons of finishing 8th whilst they were finding their feet with recruitment.

There is no excuse now but however. I imagine they may dip into the Jan transfer market depending on how the dice rolls in terms of injuries…but this starting 11 is a top 4 team with everyone fit. We are imposing our game on others which is what I wanted to see.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

"Not normal that club buys players that fit his system."

It basically what all clubs do, not just top clubs.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

I would actually argue that we should have kept Arteta as we did. All managers go through bad periods. Klopp is going through a bad period now for his own standards. You even hear Liverpool fans already talk about sacking him. It is usually what teams like Chelsea would do. But Liverpool will be wise to keep Klopp and back him in the market.

I'm glad we stuck with Arteta because the trained eyes and people who know football knew that Arteta is a top-class manager since day one. Other people who don't know that much wanted Conte to come in and work with what he has and try to do something with that. But it's just all bullshit and not how stuff works.

I never wanted Conte, but I also don't say I have some expert eye when it comes to coaching football. I heard all the talk about how good Arteta was on the training ground, but frankly went over my head. All that matters to me are improving results, a belief we can actually win the league with the trajectory we are on and good football. Beyond that I will leave it to the experts.
What I do know is that 2 points from 21 and or 5 from 30 if you look at that period over more games is something I think was sackable. That's sustained relegation form. I am happy I was wrong and the club decided to stick with him. I have been very happy with the job Arteta has been doing since post Dec 2020, despite some setbacks.

 

[KrissKringle]

why doesn’t the team immediately start getting better and do better this season as result?

That's a silly question to ask. How can anyone answer why? You phrased it as if someone already came in his place and yet we're doing worse than we did under Arteta.

A new manager might hit the ground running or take some time to adjust the tactics based on the strengths and weaknesses of the squad, but I know that no manager worth his salt would need this much time to get us to play decent football.

Arteta is in his 3rd season here and he spent a lot of money in the process, so someone more experienced would have gotten us here in half of that time.

This is the price for bringing in a novice. You have to wait and see if he's got what it takes or not.

 

[drippin]

Pep has spent £1.3bn since he arrived.
Staggering amount.
His first 3 years was well over £500m

The overall squad cost thought process only applies from the time frame that @Makingtrax invents and tells us. That's just the way it is, because he is the master of squad cost, and naturally you listen and obey the master, and don't question him. He won't answer anyway so...

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

What I do know is that 2 points from 21 and or 5 from 30 if you look at that period over more games is something I think was sackable. That's sustained relegation form. I am happy I was wrong and the club decided to stick with him. I have been very happy with the job Arteta has been doing since around April last year.

Of course, it can be sackable. I think it would 100% be stackable at a club like Chelsea. All I'm just saying is sometimes you stick with the manager and understand there are always bad periods around the corner. My belief is that often the manager themselves can fix it, but it is more common at top clubs today to sack them and get a fresh set of eyes in.

This I also said about Wenger at the time, I'm still sure he could have gotten us back to top4 if we decided to stick with him for longer. I also said the same about Emery although I was never really his biggest fan but should have been nicer in the way I spoke about him.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

The overall squad cost thought process only applies from the time frame that @Makingtrax invents and tells us. That's just the way it is, because he is the master of squad cost, and naturally you listen and obey the master, and don't question him. He won't answer anyway so...

Why Makingtrax master of it? He can't do a simple linear regression model or anything, he doesn't know data or math. I did it at the time when I was bored one evening, I could go back to it and fine-tune it if I wanted to and do the math better. I'm the master of the squad cost and it should be in the trash until everyone admits Arteta is the truth.

 

[db10_therza]

I agree with this, but I’m still not totally convinced that a manager only has one system that can succeed and needs to buy players of a profile that will suit that system. It seems crazy. I’ve never seen that happen at any other club. Even Pep who has bought a more traditional goal hanger, old fashioned style CF, has adapted his system to suit the player because he’s so good at what he does. They’re now banging in more crosses to get the goals instead of the more intricate stuff that Jesus and Sterling provided.

You’re taking the point to extremes and I suspect you’re well aware of it so I’m not gonna argue…

What I will say, and it’s been said before. Arteta is a baby, he’s learning and I’m sure he’ll add more strings to his bow as time goes on. Comparisons to Peps methods are valid, comparisons to Pep full stop, are absurd. Complaints that we hired a baby are valid, complaints about a baby throwing toys around after the fact- not valid.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

That's a silly question to ask. How can anyone answer why? You phrased it as if someone already came in his place and yet we're doing worse than we did under Arteta.

A new manager might hit the ground running or take some time to adjust the tactics based on the strengths and weaknesses of the squad, but I know that no manager worth his salt would need this much time to get us to play decent football.

Arteta is in his 3rd season here and he spent a lot of money in the process, so someone more experienced would have gotten us here in half of that time.

This is the price for bringing in a novice. You have to wait and see if he's got what it takes or not.

Would another manager have done the job twice as fast?
Dunno man, that's a bit speculative. More experienced managers than Arteta have gone to clubs and struggled - Ancelotti at Everton, Benitez at Everton, Moyes at Utd, Ragnarok (or whatever his name was) at Utd, remains to be seen with Ten Haag at Utd, but early signs are not brilliant. I would also say that just maybe some of the big names may not have wanted to take some of the very big risks we have over the last 3 years.

 

[samspade]

That's a silly question to ask. How can anyone answer why? You phrased it as if someone already came in his place and yet we're doing worse than we did under Arteta.

A new manager might hit the ground running or take some time to adjust the tactics based on the strengths and weaknesses of the squad, but I know that no manager worth his salt would need this much time to get us to play decent football.

Arteta is in his 3rd season here and he spent a lot of money in the process, so someone more experienced would have gotten us here in half of that time.

This is the price for bringing in a novice. You have to wait and see if he's got what it takes or not.

Come on bro, you must understand the gist of my question. Forget the bounce or the ‘small amount of time it takes for a top manager to adjust’ why wouldn’t you bring in one of these managers who are supposedly better? After the presumable short bedding in period’s done, wouldn’t they start to do better?

If all these managers are clearly better and our process doesn’t mean much why not just go for a better one? Wouldn’t their ceiling be higher?

You say it would be silly to sack him at this point, give me an actual reason why it’s silly. Is it because they wouldn’t be as suited as Arteta to this squad? Does that mean Arteta is good with these type players? Give me something

Ofc I actually wanted @Makingtrax to answer my question. What’s your answer trax

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Of course, it can be sackable. I think it would 100% be stackable at a club like Chelsea. All I'm just saying is sometimes you stick with the manager and understand there are always bad periods around the corner. My belief is that often the manager themselves can fix it, but it is more common at top clubs today to sack them and get a fresh set of eyes in.

This I also said about Wenger at the time, I'm still sure he could have gotten us back to top4 if we decided to stick with him for longer. I also said the same about Emery although I was never really his biggest fan but should have been nicer in the way I spoke about him.

I did read some interesting analysis some time back on the effect of a new manager coming in after a bad run of form - the result was there was almost zero difference in subsequent form. Surprised me.

 

[drippin]

Why Makingtrax master of it? He can't do a simple linear regression model or anything, he doesn't know data or math. I did it at the time when I was bored one evening, I could go back to it and fine-tune it if I wanted to and do the math better. I'm the master of the squad cost and it should be in the trash until everyone admits Arteta is the truth.

Well yeah.. this is the guy who tells us that squad cost is the most important thing in football, but then when the whole league gets way more money than ever before, for years thus far already, it doesn't make the league harder.

He is the master of "selective squad cost to make Wenger look better" theory.

 

[samspade]

I’m baffled that people say it would be silly to get rid of him or they don’t want him gone, but the leagues replete with superior managers and they can’t give me a singles reason why they wouldn’t swap him for them.

It just doesn’t add up

 

[jones]

Some really funny posts as usual. Trying hard to ensure that no credit is given to Arteta while at the same time ensuring that the post contains some kind of acknowledgement of the current improvement so that one can point out that part when questioned.

Unprecedented backing, huge money spent, Any manager can achieve good results if he is allowed to replace the entire squad(one would think we are the new age galacticos based on that comment) etc.. mostly clearly agenda based takes but idea is to keep repeating that here and bore people into submission.

Let's try give Arteta all the credit then - why did it take three years for us to have a sustained run of good form if the money spent isn't the reason?

Isn't it even counterintuitive to even buy new players when the likes of Holding Laca Auba etc have enjoyed Artetas presence teachings and grace for longer than Jesus or Ødegaard?

 

[samspade]

@jones Surely you have the balls to say you’d sack him tomorrow for one of the league’s ‘superior’ managers

 

[jones]

I’m baffled that people say it would be silly to get rid of him or they don’t want him gone, but the leagues replete with superior managers and they can’t give me a singles reason why they wouldn’t swap him for them.

It just doesn’t add up

You don't **** with a running system. A good run at the start of the season doesn't mean Arteta is among the best managers in the world all of a sudden, still ripping everything up midseason could backfire spectacularly after our first sustained run of form in 2.5 years.

Next summer I've zero qualms sacking and replacing him even if he gets us CL. Why would you as a fan who was ruthless about upgrading on so many serviceable players not be it about the manager?

 

[Entropics]

I’m baffled that people say it would be silly to get rid of him or they don’t want him gone, but the leagues replete with superior managers and they can’t give me a singles reason why they wouldn’t swap him for them.

It just doesn’t add up

It's because nobody believes he will be gone anytime soon so why bother.

I would still swap him for anyone, but as things stand I'm fairly confident he will be around by 2025 so yeah.

 

[samspade]

You don't **** with a running system. A good run at the start of the season doesn't mean Arteta is among the best managers in the world all of a sudden, still ripping everything up midseason could backfire spectacularly after our first sustained run of form in 2.5 years.

Why is there a risk of it backfiring? A much a better manager should just do a much better job with such a premium squad shouldn’t they? What’s the mechanism that leads to a risk of back firing?

What about if we finish second or have a genuine tilt at the title while scoring lots of goals and continuing to play this football, you still shooting him come season’s end?