Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

You're the net spend expert. It's a fiiting @.

I'm not even interested in net spend mate. It's meaningless.

 

[Makingtrax]

Looks like you’re going to be a disappointed fan for the next few years if that’s the only thing that’ll make you happy. We haven’t challenged for the title since 2015. I’ll take year over year improvement.

It was sarcasm mate. That's what unenlightened fans used shout at Wenger. Good to see you understand though.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Now I'm sorry, but if Chelsea had so many injuries they wouldn't have won the league that year.

Indeed. I argued the same thing back then. And in 10-11 with United. But injuries were an endemic part of Wenger during this period. Articles that have come out after on how deficient Arsenal's training methods were in terms of injury prevention and how there was an extremely lax and bad environment in terms of preparation and injury prevention with the medical staff have come out after to confirm what is obvious if you look at the injuries over a long period of time: there was a systemic problem with injuries under Wenger, something to do with his regime.

1.We had the most injuries in the league that year, yet we still beat all 4 of the teams that out spent us
2. We beat Leicester home and away, it was the other supposed top 6 sides that capitulated against them and gave them the title.
3. Wenger's tactics produced the side with the best defensive stats and the most clean sheets
4. Wenger's tactics produced one of the highest Xg stats over 38 matches. The team was clearly creating chances but a protracted barren spell from Giroud after Xmas where he failed to convert some fairly easy chances cost us those extra points. That's just football mate.

1. addressed above
2. typical nonsense used to excuse Wenger this season...we finished on 72 pts. That doesn't win you the title ever, and since truly top managers have come into the league and raised the tactical level up a notch, to where the Premier is now actually the best league in the world--in 2015/16 it was certainly not, la liga was--72 pts doesn't even get you close. It doesn't matter that we got 6 pts against the title winner, we finished on 72 pts and the title winner finished on 81, which is an extremely low total for a title winner in the last 5 years.
3. Cool...the league was poor that season and a top manager would've had us finishing first. The team who finished first or second will always finish first in a number of stats, especially cherry-picked ones like the ones you are doing.
4. See above. Typical of Wenger-cultists who cannot accept his failures with his successes, too quick to excuse failures with empty statements like the bolded.

It was sarcasm mate. That's what unenlightened fans used shout at Wenger.

Depends on the year and the competition. There were times that might've been an "unenlightened" shout, but certainly there were a few years in there from 2010 on where the competition was weak and we should've competed more for the title or won it. A top manager with a real, positive project surely would've won it at least once in that period given the weakness of the opposition and the league pre Guardiola and Klopp.

 

[The_Playmaker]

I think there is currently criticism regarding our attacking play, but I'm not sure how much blame to place at Arteta.

How many players are incisive or try to be?

Gabriel, Tierney, Luiz, Saka. They are the most aggressive passers. Xhaka and Ceballos do it every now and then, but it's mostly sideways and backwards. There is a clamour for Auba to play cf, but so many good runs he makes from the left are completely ignored because the pass is too risky.

Risky because our midfield are terrible running back towards their goal. Does Partey solve this? Partly.

We have to accept that we have technical limitations. Bellerin is not as good a passer as Tierney. He doesn't receive the ball as well either.

It's hard to go for a game when players are simply cautious.

 

[dashsnow17]

We've done the "let's get organised and be hard to beat" thing, but now we need to do the "come on, lads, we need to start playing" thing. That's my in-depth take on it.

 

[Makingtrax]

Indeed. I argued the same thing back then. And in 10-11 with United. But injuries were an endemic part of Wenger during this period. Articles that have come out after on how deficient Arsenal's training methods were in terms of injury prevention and how there was an extremely lax and bad environment in terms of preparation and injury prevention with the medical staff have come out after to confirm what is obvious if you look at the injuries over a long period of time: there was a systemic problem with injuries under Wenger, something to do with his regime.



1. addressed above
2. typical nonsense used to excuse Wenger this season...we finished on 72 pts. That doesn't win you the title ever, and since truly top managers have come into the league and raised the tactical level up a notch, to where the Premier is now actually the best league in the world--in 2015/16 it was certainly not, la liga was--72 pts doesn't even get you close. It doesn't matter that we got 6 pts against the title winner, we finished on 72 pts and the title winner finished on 81, which is an extremely low total for a title winner in the last 5 years.
3. Cool...the league was poor that season and a top manager would've had us finishing first. The team who finished first or second will always finish first in a number of stats, especially cherry-picked ones like the ones you are doing.
4. See above. Typical of Wenger-cultists who cannot accept his failures with his successes, too quick to excuse failures with empty statements like the bolded.



Depends on the year and the competition. There were times that might've been an "unenlightened" shout, but certainly there were a few years in there from 2010 on where the competition was weak and we should've competed more for the title or won it. A top manager with a real, positive project surely would've won it at least once in that period given the weakness of the opposition and the league pre Guardiola and Klopp.

Stuff about how many points you need to win a league are irrelevant. I presented you with reasons and data in that post. These definitely aren't excuses. The board invested 5th, Wenger finished 2nd. That's value added.

You tell me which 'top manager' spending fifth or below in the EPL won the title, since the EPL began. The answer is Ranieri, only, in that fluke year. Why hasn't there been more? And if it's so rare and difficult why are you beating Wenger up about it.

 

[Finesse]

I think there is currently criticism regarding our attacking play, but I'm not sure how much blame to place at Arteta.

How many players are incisive or try to be?

Gabriel, Tierney, Luiz, Saka. They are the most aggressive passers. Xhaka and Ceballos do it every now and then, but it's mostly sideways and backwards. There is a clamour for Auba to play cf, but so many good runs he makes from the left are completely ignored because the pass is too risky.

Risky because our midfield are terrible running back towards their goal. Does Partey solve this? Partly.

We have to accept that we have technical limitations. Bellerin is not as good a passer as Tierney. He doesn't receive the ball as well either.

It's hard to go for a game when players are simply cautious.

This is the caveat. Why should we use the word BLAME regarding our attacking play. The moment that word it used , we find it difficult to make an objective analysis.

We should not look for who to blame. We should be objective on discussing the facts and looking at how we hope the Manager can improve the team. He improved the defense last season using players he inherited. He got credit for it. He added Gabriel to that and we are happy with the process. If the attacking players he inherited are poor, what did he do all summer? Why is he not working on them like he did with the defense he inherited? He signed on Auba , committed to Laca and killed off any transfer rumours , brought in Willian etc. He also refused to commit to the asking fee for Aouar , and had no back up option despite good options around the continent. He went into the season thinking Willian would play CAM and against City he tried it. He is not to blame ! He is responsible for the situation.

He can change it and it is not down to the personnel he inherited. It is our shape and new structure. It keeps us secure at the back but seriously inhibits our attacking play. It is that simple.

I can see the shape was the basis for our form last season , FA Cup winning and now added steel. However with the way we all work as a team defending , the confidence we have defending and playing from the back , the incredible addition of Gabriel and most importantly the immense Partey , do we really have to keep the shape ? Is the above not enough for us to start playing with an offensive CAM that can bring Auba , Pepe , Laca into play?( he knows and we know they cannot create anything fro themselves ) We lost out of Aouar , but what were we thinking going into the season with the gap? Who can operate in that space now ? Arteta has that responsibility and not the blame to sort it out. As a fan my role is to support but also question him when the facts are clear as our attacking stats. Shocking if you ask me ! Else we would spend the next few months happy we are conceding less and not still able to score goals to win games that would match our top 4 ambition.

 

[dashsnow17]

Maybe he's just doing a Jardim. Everyone remembers Jardim's incredible 2016/17 Monaco team when they scored 107 league goals, but they don't mention that his two seasons in charge before that were very conservative and they only scored like 50 league goals. He built up over time, qualified for CL two years in a row and then they broke out.

On the other hand I don't want to spend two seasons being bored out of my mind watching Arsenal.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Maybe he's just doing a Jardim. Everyone remembers Jardim's incredible 2016/17 Monaco team when they scored 107 league goals, but they don't mention that his two seasons in charge before that were very conservative and they only scored like 50 league goals. He built up over time, qualified for CL two years in a row and then they broke out.

On the other hand I don't want to spend two seasons being bored out of my mind watching Arsenal.

Agree. I've already spent two and half years bored to tears with little hope of a nice surprise.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Maybe he's just doing a Jardim. Everyone remembers Jardim's incredible 2016/17 Monaco team when they scored 107 league goals, but they don't mention that his two seasons in charge before that were very conservative and they only scored like 50 league goals. He built up over time, qualified for CL two years in a row and then they broke out.

On the other hand I don't want to spend two seasons being bored out of my mind watching Arsenal.

Yeah but that Monaco team had Mbappe in their academy. Do we even have a player half as good in our academy?

 

[James Bond]

Yeah but that Monaco team had Mbappe in their academy. Do we even have a player half as good in our academy?

We’ve got two already in and around the first team.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

It was sarcasm mate. That's what unenlightened fans used shout at Wenger. Good to see you understand though.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

You tell me which 'top manager' spending fifth or below in the EPL won the title, since the EPL began. The answer is Ranieri, only, in that fluke year. Why hasn't there been more? And if it's so rare and difficult why are you beating Wenger up about it.

Well, this is a rather facile argument, because what manager spent 15 years at a net spend fifth club wages third-fourth club? Wenger's situation was entirely unique in the premier and in all of football, any other club of that expectations sacks him long before he finishes those 15 years.

When you look around football, and see what Simeone, Klopp, etc. did in developing projects under similar adverse financial circumstances (or much worse, in the case of Simeone), you see what a real top manager can do with a real proper project at a club like this.

Unfortunately Wenger just wasn't that in the last 5-10 years of his reign. Doesn't take away from the love we should all have for him, the visionary he was in his earlier era here, and the lovely man he is.

 

[DUFFMAN]

First time since he took over I feel he's feeling the pressure.

Bad results in the next 2 or 3 games and the media and fans will start asking questions.

Özil situation isn't helping.

 

[kash2]

Well, this is a rather facile argument, because what manager spent 15 years at a net spend fifth club wages third-fourth club? Wenger's situation was entirely unique in the premier and in all of football, any other club of that expectations sacks him long before he finishes those 15 years.

When you look around football, and see what Simeone, Klopp, etc. did in developing projects under similar adverse financial circumstances (or much worse, in the case of Simeone), you see what a real top manager can do with a real proper project at a club like this.

Unfortunately Wenger just wasn't that in the last 5-10 years of his reign. Doesn't take away from the love we should all have for him, the visionary he was in his earlier era here, and the lovely man he is.

yeah...crap manager...has been...no use to the club...not a legend..helped destroy arsenal...correct. Wenger is gone.... **** all you want on him.... dont hold back.

 

[kash2]

the only people in the world saying **** about Wenger are Arsenal Fans Inc. says it all.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Doesn't take away from the love we should all have for him, the visionary he was in his earlier era here, and the lovely man he is.

yeah...crap manager...has been...no use to the club...not a legend..helped destroy arsenal...correct. Wenger is gone.... **** all you want on him.... dont hold back.

???

 

[kash2]

???

I come here to bury Caesar not to damn him with faint praise.

 

[Manberg]

Arteta placing himself in the firing line regarding the Özil situation is something which fills me with confidence. He must be confident in his own ability to do well and make the fans happy in the future if he’s so willing to face the wrath of sections of the fanbase in the short term, as a result of it all. I’ve no concerns.

 

[Rasmi]

Arteta placing himself in the firing line regarding the Özil situation is something which fills me with confidence. He must be confident in his own ability to do well and make the fans happy in the future if he’s so willing to face the wrath of sections of the fanbase in the short term, as a result of it all. I’ve no concerns.

It’s common for young managers to feel they need to prove they are tough and make drastic decisions. Lampard with rudiguer is perfect example. Young managers tend to clash with experienced players with strong personalities and prefer younger players. If arteta has 10 years experience he would have handled it differently