PL: Arsenal vs Manchester City | 22/10/05

[Tegh]

When he leaves I'll be grateful for what he did for Arsenal, I'll still think he's an arse hole, but I'll be grateful.

However, I agree with Kel Varnsen, no team should continue to play someone who is playing rubbish just because of what he's done in the past.

''I know you're playing ****e right now Bobby, but we are going to keep playing you in every game this season as a token of our appreciation of your form a few seasons ago. We're not going to give the promising youngsters a game because they've not done anything for Arsenal.''

You can't play a player based on that kind of attitude, and that seems to be the attitude some posters on this forum are taking. Well, not me.

Also, some of you are making out that certain posters in this thread that disagree with what Pires and Henry did are racist. How can you tell if someone is racist or not unless they've made a racist remark. I sincerely hope I'm not included in that generalisation, because If i was racist I wouldn't be an Arsenal supporter as they have so many players from so many different countries. I also wouldn't get behind our foreign players and defend them in other threads when they receive undeserved criticism.

 

[Gurgen]

Who said Pires should be playing every match? Read the posts kel.

What I mean is saying Pires is a 'French ****', a '*****' and 'fag' and whatnot is hardly constructive criticizm directed at his play, especially considering the man's record over the years.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

We are not going to see an Arsenal left side featuring Quincy and Clichy in anything other than the Carling Cup. I'm sure of it.

 

[Gazza Martinez]

Only a lot of the abuse has nothing to do with his play but is becoming very personal. He doesn't deserve that s**t, after all he's done for the club.

Took the words out of my mouth

 

[James]

Only a lot of the abuse has nothing to do with his play but is becoming very personal. He doesn't deserve that s**t, after all he's done for the club.

Spot on. His performances have been woeful, but some of the abuse you "fans" give is just too far.

 

[Tegh]

He's received plenty of constructive criticism over recent weeks, more than enough after each poor performance. Alright, people can keep going on about what he's done for the club, which is fine, he's done well, but If i want to call him a fag I can, that's my personal opinion. Ronaldo gets all kinds of abuse, alright he hasn't played for Arsenal, but that's not constructive criticism either, that's someones opinion.

I want to see him dropped to give the youngsters a chance, I suppose we do need his experience, not that it's done us any favours recently, but if his replacement were to get injured we'd need him as backup at the very least. So i guess, no matter how rubbish he is playing at the moment, he is of some use.

I would really like for him to put this behind him and pull off some great performances to save face at the least, I'd still dislike him but at least then he wouldn't end his final season as an Arsenal player as a total waste of space. I suppose he deserves at least that after the performances he put in seasons ago.

I don't want to go on about this anymore unless invited, in the fear of possibly being labelled a racist for criticising someone, and because thinking about it really gets on my tits.

 

[Gurgen]

You can call him whatever you want mate, it just doesn't have anything to do with his performances

 

[IBL]

Ice Berg legend, I know your name suggests Bergy is your fave player but MOM?? Are you drunk he was so ineffective today it was an embarressment.

Were you watching the game Jay-D? I didnt judge with Bergy-Blinkers on

I also take into account what a player does off the ball in addition to what he does on the ball, he was one player who kept going for the full 90 minutes. When we were 1-0 up he closed down defenders, tackled (in typical Bergy style), made himself available for passes. He won the penalty for us and was generally useful with the ball. I wasnt the only who thought he was our MotM, people around me were pretty much in agrrement. Can you name any other player who was more deserving then Bergy?

I thought Flamini had a solid game too, made one excellent run in the second half

 

[kanuuu]

Pires' general *****ness does affect his performances, he bottles challeneges, dives, and generally dissappears when we need our big players to perform, and i know he's not the only player guilty of that, but Henry's general performances are good enough to make up for his arrogance, that's why Pires is taking all the stick, becaus ehe's been **** for too long now.

 

[JazzG]

He has been bottling it for years now, ever since he done his knee in. Not like it is something new.....

 

[jay-d]

Ice Berg legend, I know your name suggests Bergy is your fave player but MOM?? Are you drunk he was so ineffective today it was an embarressment.

Were you watching the game Jay-D? I didnt judge with Bergy-Blinkers on

I also take into account what a player does off the ball in addition to what he does on the ball, he was one player who kept going for the full 90 minutes. When we were 1-0 up he closed down defenders, tackled (in typical Bergy style), made himself available for passes. He won the penalty for us and was generally useful with the ball. I wasnt the only who thought he was our MotM, people around me were pretty much in agrrement. Can you name any other player who was more deserving then Bergy?

I thought Flamini had a solid game too, made one excellent run in the second half

Yes mate I watched the match. Bergy is just to slow, fair dues he won the pen but apart from that wasn't involved enough. He lost the ball a lot and now apart from the occasional bit of trickery or a good pass doesn't justify his selection, him and Pires together is like playing with 10 men ( half a man each ) and its costing us, we look slow and weak as a unit and really need to inject some pace back into our side.

 

[kamikaze80]

bobbys getting way too much stick, it was titis idea, after all. anyway, id hate for his confidence to sink even lower as a result of the infamous penalty episode of 2005, since we are generally short of goals this season and we're stuck with him (for better or worse) until the end of the season. id rather have the pires whos bad but scores 14 goals.

anyway, i think pires will be benched for good once hleb is back. in the interim, i expect reyes (when he returns) to play on the right and pires on the left.

 

[sabret00the]

Ice Berg legend, I know your name suggests Bergy is your fave player but MOM?? Are you drunk he was so ineffective today it was an embarressment.

Were you watching the game Jay-D? I didnt judge with Bergy-Blinkers on

I also take into account what a player does off the ball in addition to what he does on the ball, he was one player who kept going for the full 90 minutes. When we were 1-0 up he closed down defenders, tackled (in typical Bergy style), made himself available for passes. He won the penalty for us and was generally useful with the ball. I wasnt the only who thought he was our MotM, people around me were pretty much in agrrement. Can you name any other player who was more deserving then Bergy?

I thought Flamini had a solid game too, made one excellent run in the second half

Yes mate I watched the match. Bergy is just to slow, fair dues he won the pen but apart from that wasn't involved enough. He lost the ball a lot and now apart from the occasional bit of trickery or a good pass doesn't justify his selection, him and Pires together is like playing with 10 men ( half a man each ) and its costing us, we look slow and weak as a unit and really need to inject some pace back into our side.

9 and a half at the most

 

[IBL]

Ice Berg legend, I know your name suggests Bergy is your fave player but MOM?? Are you drunk he was so ineffective today it was an embarressment.

Were you watching the game Jay-D? I didnt judge with Bergy-Blinkers on

I also take into account what a player does off the ball in addition to what he does on the ball, he was one player who kept going for the full 90 minutes. When we were 1-0 up he closed down defenders, tackled (in typical Bergy style), made himself available for passes. He won the penalty for us and was generally useful with the ball. I wasnt the only who thought he was our MotM, people around me were pretty much in agrrement. Can you name any other player who was more deserving then Bergy?

I thought Flamini had a solid game too, made one excellent run in the second half

Yes mate I watched the match. Bergy is just to slow, fair dues he won the pen but apart from that wasn't involved enough. He lost the ball a lot and now apart from the occasional bit of trickery or a good pass doesn't justify his selection, him and Pires together is like playing with 10 men ( half a man each ) and its costing us, we look slow and weak as a unit and really need to inject some pace back into our side.

Well we know Bergy is slow - he is 36 after all, but what impressed me about him yesterday is that after that debacle of a penalty which he won for us, Man City were all over us and we sere struggling to get a hold of the game. While up front Pires continued to do sod all and Henry moped around for a bit it was Bergkamp who was doing all the closing down and fighting for everything. He was smart enough to realise that Cesc was struggling so he came over to the right and helped out.

Lets face it, everyone was pretty poor yesterday but relatively speaking Bergkamp, for me, was the strongest player. When all said and done I'm just glad we got the 3 points.

 

[RockyRocastle]

Those of you who are saying Cesc and Flamini had good games yesterday must not have been watching the same game as me.

Both were pony, and both owend by some little 17 year old midget in the city midfield who is really a striker.

It is our reliance on these two that have been and will continue to be our downfall this season.

Cesc is obviously a very talented player, but far too young to have the responsibilites he has at this age. imo the amount of game time he is having will do him more harm than good.
He is a neat and tidy player who keeps things simple and us moving. But he has no strength, no pace and doesnt look like he will ever score. He simply does not contribute enough to games to justify a place in our team week in week out. What has he actually done this season?

Flamini is no more than a squad player. He cant pass water, gives the ball away, cant shoot, is no threat what so ever. He is a brilliantly average player. To compare him to the romford pele is a joke. He has a good engine like razor did, but that is where it stops. As a player to come on with 5 minutes to go away from home he is great, but to start games when we have a injury to a midfielder is a sorry state to be in.

What has happened to our team? We used to be a physically imposing team with pace all over the pitch and could hurt teams from anywhere.

Just how much strength, power and pace was in our midfield yesterday? None.

 

[brady]

Denis had a decent game, which is saying a lot given the horrible showing by so many others. But towards the end he was losing his rag which makes me sick whenever I see it. We look like poor losers. Cesc on the right does not work and they should stop using it. He also gave the ball away quite a bit. Even Gilberto got caught in possession too many times for my liking. Didn't anyone have a shout to let him know?

Our play has become way too predictable in many situations. Pires should be dropped. He can produce the odd moment of brilliance but he is a fair-weather player. He plays well when the team plays well and he can't tackle his way out of a paper bag. I liked the idea someone had of playing Toure in midfield. He's fast, has presence and has a hell of a shot.

Can't wait for January to see who we are getting...

 

[the dawn raids]

We are not going to see an Arsenal left side featuring Quincy and Clichy in anything other than the Carling Cup. I'm sure of it.

exactly. i want Quincy to get his chance just as much as anyone. and maybe when Cole Ljungberg and Hleb return would be the more ideal scenario for him to get more than 10 minutes. but were young enough in the middle of the park at the moment the way it is; this is one instance where i have to agree with Wengers requirements on experience.

 

[whoztheman]

it was toure-the midfielder-who provided the neat pass to henry before the penalty.

 

[JazzG]

Just how much strength, power and pace was in our midfield yesterday? None.

Gotta agree with that, Fergie once commented on the fact that other teams were just getting overpowered by our strong midfield, on the deck they couldn't compete and in a physical battle they couldn't either.

Remember this midfield in 01/02

Pires-----Vieira-----Parlour------Freddie

It had flair and could break down most defenses, when the match got a bit rough it could also roll their sleeves up and get stuck in. Compare this to

Hleb----Gilberto----Cesc-----Freddie

Plenty of flair but no grit there at all. When the going gets tough now nowhere to run nowhere to hide

When Sol comes back I wouldn't be against Toure becoming a CM, we just are so weak physically there and need someone with presence who is willing to become a human battering ram to go through the other team! But then on one hand Senderos is having a dodgy season and Cygan doesn't always fill me with confidence either, does ok in CL but can be a bit ropey in the PL.

 

[Tegh]

Parlour was great, he had a great work rate about him and he always got stuck in, he even had pace Pires never got stuck in though, he was merely their for the flair side. Freddie and Hleb both track back, as do Gilberto and Cesc, but our only physical player in that line up is Gilberto, and to a certain extent Freddie who often gets stuck in.

Toure is immense, love it when he goes on those forward runs.