Robin van Persie in midfield/the hole

[sabret00the]

Can we kill this idea with fire please? I really wasn't gonna bring it up, but it's been bothering me a lot. I thought the idea of Chamakh was squad depth, so why are we forcing ourselves to play him and van Persie? If van Persie is ready to start games let him start. This idea about him being as good in the hole as Bergkamp is ludicrous. Bergkamp lived for the finesse of the game, Robin is about aggression. One was born to score and one was born to lay it on a plate. Why would the idea even enter the manager's head? Is Robin so bad/good in training that he's now a viable alternative to Fabregas? And what are we doing in training if we can't see how fail the idea there? Did we really have to do in a stadium in front of cameras and fans? [/rant]

 

[raidersoftheark]

I actually think it could work, but Robin is clearly out of sync at the moment.

 

[Invincible]

Robin has always looked better as a second striker than in the CF role.

 

[mo50]

We've got players who are better in the hole. I prefer when he's a CF. The Robin of last season was superb, and I'd like to see more of that.

In my opinion, I'd like to see this whole idea of a Second striker to be killed.

 

[dreamLord]

Robin 'lays it on the plate' for other players 9 times out of 10. I don't see whats so ludicrous about him playing as the 2nd striker - not as an AM mind you. The only problem is that we don't have a midfield 2 to incorporate this.

 

[Shadow Moses]

He has always been shocking in the no10 position. He has no attributes that suggests he would excel there. A no10 needs to be decisive and have the ability to slip players through on goal. Robin is slow, drops too deep, dwells too long on the ball and his passing isn't anything special.

When a 'no10' receives the ball his focus should be a forward pass, a defence splitting ball or a move that puts the defenders on their back foot. Think Sneijder in world cup or during Mourihno days at Inter or our very own DB10. When RVP receives the ball his default move is to drop deep, hold onto the ball for as long as possible then deliver a 5 yard pass to a midfielder. This is a waste of his talent. He is a goal scorer and that's what his primary goal should be.

 

[AnthonyG]

He has always been shocking in the no10 position. He has no attributes that suggests he would excel there. A no10 needs to be decisive and have the ability to slip players through on goal. Robin is slow, drops too deep, dwells too long on the ball and his passing isn't anything special. He is a goal scorer and that's what his primary goal should be.

I'm not convinced that Robin should be a 'no. 10' (whatever that means these days), but I think you do a disservice to him. He's not slow, dropping too deep or otherwise is a choice and not inconsistent with my understanding of a 'no. 10', and he is actually quite good at putting players into space.

 

[Burnwinter]

The problem with Robin playing behind Chamakh is the need to accommodate our most productive players in Arshavin, Nasri and Fabregas.

Particularly Fabregas. It's not really sane to contemplate leaving Cesc out when fit and in form, and I'm not sure Robin and Cesc in a "midfield" would work at all - sounds disastrous on paper.

I think we'll be more potent if we just play the best prepared out of van Persie and Chamakh up front.

 

[AnthonyG]

I think that's true enough re: Cesc's current absence, BW. Personally, I see Chamakh as being able to play out wide in our 4-3-3 as well, so that should give him plenty of opportunities to play.

 

[Burnwinter]

Yeah, I think Chamakh could be useful out wide I suppose, I just can't see him getting that job ahead of Nasri, Arshavin and Walcott which means being used on the basis of rotation - unless Nasri starts playing through the centre.

I think it might be good to start Nasri centrally on Monday but I don't believe Wenger will do it.

 

[scytheavatar]

Uh..... why is Chamakh considered undroppable? He certainly hasn't done badly this season, but it's not like we will miss him with a Arshavin-Van Persie-Nasri lineup.

 

[yuvken]

The problem with Robin playing behind Chamakh is the need to accommodate our most productive players in Arshavin, Nasri and Fabregas.

Particularly Fabregas. It's not really sane to contemplate leaving Cesc out when fit and in form, and I'm not sure Robin and Cesc in a "midfield" would work at all - sounds disastrous on paper.

I think we'll be more potent if we just play the best prepared out of van Persie and Chamakh up front.

At this time this looks most true. That until we see Robin in form, him and Chamakh actually working well together, him dropping in a useful way with Nasri and AA - for now all this was just on paper, and it didn't materialize as imagined.
A point that's constantly being ignored is the different interpretation of "the hole", "no.10" and others, and most important for us - how VP and cesc "wear" it. In my mind, though many times in reality cesc tried to play the exact same no. 10 thing (and, to my great disappointment, Robin was actually tried as an AM), there's a big difference between the 2: VP is a striker, and Cesc is a midfielder. You can't take it out of them (it's a DNA thing ). We see it better as in a 442 Robin is easily the second striker, and "exploits areas to send a killer pass" then is a la Bergkamp, and he excels at that. When we try to stretch that, exactly because we want to accommodate all the others in a 433, it doesn't seem to work. The temptation is always there, particularly as in AW's teams there's much freedom to change places, and the formation seems to be in flux. When Cesc is not available, a seeming solution is VP simply pulled further back to Cesc's position. I think that's what Sabre meant, and I agree: VP should not play from that position - that will not benefit us even when he is in form. I'd rather sea Rosicky there any time.
Cesc and VP in midfield? that's a nightmare. We'd always do better keeping VP up, and let him be the one drifting, pulling back and calling it, if we insist they all need to play together (particularly him and Chamakh).

 

[KY]

play RVP at right forward,Arshavin on left, Nasri central attacking and Song-Cesc fulcrum in midfield

 

[Kroket]

Finally some luxury problems up front, no more worrying about who to play as a CF out of Arshavin, Eduardo or Vela. Having said that, Van Persie as a 'no 10' is a big fat no for me. Under normal circumstances we play Cesc there in front of two central midfielders so no room for Van Persie to play in midfield. In Cesc's absence I want to see Rosicky there because he links up so well with Nasri and Arshavin and in the end is simply more suited to the role.

Play Robin as a CF and as a CF only. Rotate him and Chamakh, on the right you can choose Nasri or Walcott and on the left Arshavin and whoever doesn't play on the right out of Nasri/Walcott and Rosicky (Vela?).

 

[yuvken]

play RVP at right forward,Arshavin on left, Nasri central attacking and Song-Cesc fulcrum in midfield

Serious? so dump Chams, Move Nas to CF, and Robin RF? Or do you mean that as some surprise for the utd game? in which case, why build on Cesc (where Cesc-Song sounds like the more sound detail in this suggestion), as he is sort of 50-50?

 

[KY]

no. I meant with chamakh as CF flanked by RVP and arshavin and Nasri as focal point in a 3 man midfield with Song and Cesc.

 

[yuvken]

you mean:

cesc song
nasri

VP - Cham - AA?


Wouldn't this be another example of forcing it, just so we could see all of them
play together, while sacrificing Nas (who's on fire), when we actually have cesc?
doesn't make sense to me (not that it looks like a poor team in any way).
I could see this happening if we're chasing the game, or against the bus.

 

[KY]

not to me. RVP has played right midfield with a degree of success for Holland and he can cut in from the right and use his left peg to good effect. Nasri revels in a central free role whereas Cesc has shown enough tenacity to play central midfield and can use his vision to spray the passes and play the cute through passes...
Plus i think he can captain and direct the side more effectively from a deeper position, and can force song to be more static in his defensive mid role...

 

[yuvken]

Fair enough, KY. Personally I wouldn't opt for anything that's not AA and Nas with either VP or Cham up front, with or without Cesc (in the latter case - Rosicky).
That leaves also one of VP or Cham to come on when needed, + Feo (if the fat lazy dwarf is in one of these days, or just done). Last few games made me uncomfortable with us losing our game, and particularly what seems to be our strong points - Nas and AA, a legit AM, and Cham scoring (I trust VP enough to be at least an equal replacement).

 

[scytheavatar]

Again, why is everyone so eager to dump Wilshere out of our side? He hasn't played well in all of our games but he's probably better than Cesc in the deeper center mid role, as he shows more tenacity and gives more bite to our midfield.