Tuncay Şanlı

[Alfonso]

Oh right hes different. No hes not. Hes a big player who won nothing for 10 years. In your books that does not make him a success. In mine it does. He did a great service for Newcastle, and was vital for them.

I never said he was not a success, i said that his situation was different. If he wanted to he could have gone to Man Utd at various times, but he was an old skool player who wanted to play for the team he grew up watching, hence he is different.

It was your 'Turks are not good travellers' that pissed me off. Its a stupid statement to make. The reason a player can adapt to a league and thrive in it is not because of their race, its because of their talent and a little bit of luck (with injuries etc).

Not really. For example, many South Americans have struggled in the Premiership. Also, Italians tend not to do as well away from Italy than they do in Italy. Therefore, there is a basis for generalisation.

 

[Lev]

not one Turkish player has made it at a big club in a big league.

But the bottom line is both those players didnt win anything with these clubs either.

I showed you 2. You said that it proves nothing seeing as they didnt win anything. I gave you Shearer as an example. Why is it that Shearer made it big at Newcastle, but Basturk didnt do the same with Leverkusen? If anything, Basturk achieved more by being regulars in the CL and competing for the title. How can you say that Shearer is a class player who made it, but Basturk didnt make it?

Im not comparing the 2 players in terms of football ability, but by what they achieved. Basturk didnt make it in your opinion, therefore meaning Shearer was way off then?

Doesnt matter that Man U were in for him. Because a big team wanted to sign him.....it automatically means he made it at newcastle does it? Arsenal wanted Jenas at one point, doesnt mean hes a big player because of it. There is no difference between the Basturk + Shearer situation, just that you dont know how to reply to me so you say "but Shearer was different because he played for his boyhood club". Doesnt make it different.

Not really. For example, many South Americans have struggled in the Premiership. Also, Italians tend not to do as well away from Italy than they do in Italy. Therefore, there is a basis for generalisation.

How many South Americans have come to the PL? Not many from what i recall. Some have made it, some have not. Gilberto made it. Edu made it. Denilson is on his way to making it. Juninho did well while he was here. Who didnt make it? Baptista. Veron. Crespo. The latter 2 didnt make it because they didnt like it here. Bap didnt make it because his style of football was not suitable for the PL. Whats the difference between Edu and Baptista? Why did one make it but one didnt? Got nothing to do with where they come from, but with footballing ability.

 

[Alfonso]

]
I gave you Shearer as an example. Why is it that Shearer made it big at Newcastle, but Basturk didnt do the same with Leverkusen? If anything, Basturk achieved more by being regulars in the CL and competing for the title. How can you say that Shearer is a class player who made it, but Basturk didnt make it?

Firstly, before Shearer even moved to Newcastle he was a big player, and THE best striker in England and in the Premiership. He helped Blackburn win the league and was top goalscorer for England in Euro 96. In the same year he was only second to Ronaldo as the best striker in the world. So the world and his sister knew about his quality, so he didnt have to prove anything. He could have moved to any club he wanted to, but chose Newcastle as they were his boyhood heroes. This is why its different, and thats why your 'comparison' with Basturk is immaterial, as Shearer's cirucmstances with Newcastle are unique and Shearer was already proven and always considered the best out of his peers. You could not say the same about Basturk, who was not even the best Turkish player. The Premiership is far better than the German league anyway, and Shearer ended up being the greatest goalscorer in Newcastle's history. Shearer could have gone to Man Utd if he wanted to. Jenas was just a rumour, show me strong evidence that suggest Wenger wanted him here. In his autobiography, Ferguson clearly states that two of his biggest regrets in football is not signing Gazza and Shearer.

The season Basturk had with Leverkuson was obviously a flash in the pan as before and after that season they never produced such a season. Basturk has only got 2 goals in 45 apperances for Turkey as well. And i cant remember him much in that great run Leverkuson had in 02. I remember Ze Reberto and Ballack's contributions more. And if Baturk is so good, how come a high profile club has not signed him? Thats the difference. Basturk's ceiling was playing for a medium sized club. Shearer's ceiling was that he was one of the best strikers in the world, and the only reason he didnt go to Man Utd was because of his love for Newcastle.

Im not comparing the 2 players in terms of football ability, but by what they achieved. Basturk didnt make it in your opinion, therefore meaning Shearer was way off then?

In 50 years time, who is going to be remembered more, Shearer or Basturk? Enuf said

How many South Americans have come to the PL? Not many from what i recall. Some have made it, some have not. Gilberto made it. Edu made it. Denilson is on his way to making it. Juninho did well while he was here. Who didnt make it? Baptista. Veron. Crespo. The latter 2 didnt make it because they didnt like it here. Bap didnt make it because his style of football was not suitable for the PL. Whats the difference between Edu and Baptista? Why did one make it but one didnt? Got nothing to do with where they come from, but with footballing ability.

More South American players have struggled in the Premiership than they have been successful. Therefore, you can make a generalisation.

You say football ability. But where did we sign Edu from, and where did we get Baptista from?

Anyway, you are obviously always going to stick up for Turkey, which is understandable, but no point going any further with this conversation as your bias will get in the way of having an objective debate.

 

[thegame24]

Turkish league ****e

even cypriot teams give its teams competition

btw fenerbache beat man utds B team

Turks have generally failed in football, alfonso is right.

Nihat as i mentioned done well, where is he now?

Only one turk i rate and hes that 10 year old on youtube, and with proper training in another country he could be a star.

Also please explain why tuncay is strongly linked to a greek team?

cause its better.

 

[Mostarac]

I guess Roberto Carlos should have gone to Cyprus to play football since its better than the Turkish league then.

 

[Mostarac]

Nihat as i mentioned done well, where is he now?

He is at Villarreal and will be one of their regular strikers next season once he recovers from his injury.

 

[Lev]

What i didnt make clear in my original post on the Shearer comparison was to look at his career at Newcastle. Thats my fault and i apologise. Look at what the man did in his 10 years, he became the clubs top goal scorer, their captain and a world class player. He didnt win a single trophy. The argument i gave to you was when you said that Batsurk and Nihat cant be considered successful even though they did so well for their former clubs, and gave title challenges (in Basturks case got to the CL final). Well if they werent successes at their respective clubs, that must mean Shearer wasnt a success at Newcastle? Forget Blackburn and the winning the league, and United chasing him. What he did at Newcastle alone was enough to warrant him the image he has today as a brilliant footballer. In your eyes Basturk and Nihat werent successes because they didnt win anything, therefore the same applies to Shearer. Do you now understand the argument im putting across, or are you still confused?

Basturk has only got 2 goals in 45 apperances for Turkey as well. And i cant remember him much in that great run Leverkuson had in 02.

Thats interesting, in 2002 Leverkusen had a great season, but you dont remember Basturk. In 2002 Turkey came 3rd in the WC, where Basturk played a vital role. Let me guess, you dont remember him there either. I dont see it as a coincidence.
Hakan Sukur has nearly a goal every 2 games for Turkey. Does it make him on of the worlds greatest strikers? Cesc has 2 goals in how many league appearances this season? 34+ is my guess. Does it make him a bad player? No. Does it mean hes not one of the top midfielders in the league? No. Another crap fact from you there.

Lev wrote:

Im not comparing the 2 players in terms of football ability, but by what they achieved. Basturk didnt make it in your opinion, therefore meaning Shearer was way off then?

In 50 years time, who is going to be remembered more, Shearer or Basturk? Enuf said

Did you not read my post there properly. IM NOT COMPARING THE 2 PLAYERS IN TERMS OF FOOTBALLING ABILITY. Therefore meaning that Shearer will be remembered as a great footballer, not because he won a **** load of trophies. Basturk wont be remembered because hes not one of the greatest players of his time. Shearer was. Thats footballing ability - which if you took a second to read my post properly instead of getting excited and replying with a poor form of sarcasm, you will see i said im not comparing them on that.

More South American players have struggled in the Premiership than they have been successful. Therefore, you can make a generalisation.

You say football ability. But where did we sign Edu from, and where did we get Baptista from?

Edu came straight from Brazil. Does that not mean that it would be harder for him to settle here than Baptista, seeing as Baptistas been playing in Europe? Does that not counter your own argument? Edu settled because he was mentally and ability wise more superior for this league than Baptista. Their both South American, one was a success, one was a failure. You therefore cant generalise anything.

Anyway, you are obviously always going to stick up for Turkey, which is understandable, but no point going any further with this conversation as your bias will get in the way of having an objective debate

Where have i stuck up for Turkey alone? Not in any of my posts have i been bias to Turkey or Turkish players. I know the Turkish league isnt the greatest, i know that we havent produced the greatest talents the world has ever seen. I also know however that generalising a footballers ability to play in foreign lands to their race is pathetic. Read my posts, i never say that Turks do travel well, i say that you cant generalise like that towards a RACE of people. No biad, no problem.

 

[Lev]

Turkish league s***e

even cypriot teams give its teams competition

btw fenerbache beat man utds B team

Turks have generally failed in football, alfonso is right.

Nihat as i mentioned done well, where is he now?

Only one turk i rate and hes that 10 year old on youtube, and with proper training in another country he could be a star.

Also please explain why tuncay is strongly linked to a greek team?

cause its better.

Howard, Phil Neville, Brown (Pique 66), O'Shea, Fortune, Ronaldo, Djemba-Djemba, Fletcher, Richardson (Spector 68), Miller (Eagles 77), Bellion.

The team United had out against Fener in the 3-0 loss. They look weaker in attack, but look strong in defence to me. Did it stop the crap Turkish team from the crap Turkish league putting 3 goals past them? No. Did the crap Turkish players from the crap Turkish league stop Ronaldo. Yes.

Man U lost to Southend in this seasons Carling Cup. DOes that make League 1 better than the premiership? Of course not. Just like a little Cypriot team beating a Turkish team doesnt make the Cypriot league anywhere near the standard of the Turkish game.

Nihats had ligament damage constantly over the passed few seasons. Hes now at Villareal.

Please show me where Tuncay is strongly linked with a Greek team. Only then will i think about destroying your argument

 

[Grampus_Eight]

The comment about mental stability is un-necessary and came off poorly.

Yet, no one can deny that French players have had great careers at many/most of europe' top clubs. French clubs remain among the best producers of domestic talent in europe and unlike italy, england and even spain who have very few players who need to go abroad, all top french players have to go abroad to achieve a top playing career.

You simply cannot compare the players that Turkey, Greece or whoever else has produced over the last decades to the likes of the players who made up the core of the french sides from 96 up until today.

But let's try to stay on topic here. I'm so tired of reading all this. Personally, I don't care if the greek league or the turkish league is better.

If you all want to keep on the topic of Shearer v. Nihat; the Cypriot league, ect., please feel free to bring this over to football talk.

 

[banduan]

Read somewehere that he's admitted he's had offers from two teams- we being one of 'em.

 

[Clrnc]

tuncay is our only hope now. ribery is gone. i cant see us signing other players, unless wenger spring a surprise.

and btw, turkish league is better, not by a bit, but generally better than greek. national team wise is the same.

 

[asajoseph]

Thanks Banduan - you have a link?

From now on, I'm going to be deleting posts in this thread that aren't relevant to the possible signing of Tuncay - so don't bother wasting your time going off topic.

 

[longrufus]

Been very hopeful of this from the very start. Tuncay is a very good player, who seems to be seriously under rated on here. He could play a variety of roles and he definately improves the squad.

Bringing in Malouda and Tuncay would go a long way to addressing our problems.

 

[>YounGunner<]

Read somewehere that he's admitted he's had offers from two teams- we being one of 'em.

Please dont tell us your source is from a blog or transfer muppet in a forum!

 

[celestis]

Been very hopeful of this from the very start. Tuncay is a very good player, who seems to be seriously under rated on here. He could play a variety of roles and he definately improves the squad.

Bringing in Malouda and Tuncay would go a long way to addressing our problems.

We are interested in him then are we? I remember the year before there were rumours we would try and swap Sol for the guy.

 

[longrufus]

We have been linked with him almost every summer for the last 3/4 years. Im sure we're still interested. Only time will tell really.

 

[kooldawg]

I think i was reading something about him last year when the whole Sol to Turkey rumour was hitting the rounds, one of the articles mentioned that Wenger had tried to sign him earlier but that Tuncay didnt agree at that time because he wanted to see out his contract with Fener out of loyalty for the club.

Obivously thats been the case as he's gonna be leaving on a free, but i truly hope that we really are linked to him. He can offer us more squad depth and experience when we need it.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

http://arsenalone.wordpress.com/

The above news/blog page has the following:

Speaking after Turkeys 3-2 defeat at the hands of Bosnia Tuncay told Turkish Newspaper hurriyet “Its almost done, Juventus & Arsenal have both offered me a contract but my heart is telling me to go to London"

Never heard of this site before though, so I've no idea whether it's credible or not.

 

[asajoseph]

Er, wow! That flew under the radar if there's any truth in it, but we'll see.

Surely someone else would have heard that, if he said it?

 

[>YounGunner<]

Er, wow! That flew under the radar if there's any truth in it, but we'll see.

Surely someone else would have heard that, if he said it?

Its bull. As for Juventus well the transfer muppet got it wrong there, its AC milan he was looking for.