Will Wenger take the next step?

[Anzac]

Some quality stuff being posted in here lads - well done.
I agree with Outlaw's post & Klaus' observation about our options in those areas.

As for Ribery - I recall that AW DIDN'T persue him at the WC when he subsequently went to Bayern. All the talk at the time was that it was a forgone conclusion he'd be signing for us after the WC. And for that reason I don't see AW revisiting him again now & besides which he's too short = next.

 

[asajoseph]

Yep, it's kept teams in the PL who don't have anything like our financial power and it used to work for us and Chelsea, and nearly won us the CL.

Well, there's two problems with that:-

1) We won less than half of our games in the knockout stages. That kind of record in the Premiership would land us mid-table.

2) Arshavin may be good, but he ain't no Henry.

1)I said used to work for us Asa- 91 and all that, and Chelsea and Mourinho would be still winning the PL now if Abramovich didn't want to be loved so much.

2) Err obviously I'm not advocating long balls to Arshavin.

A more defensive counter attacking style would need the addition of several players- different kind of players.

Well, you did bring up the CL run...

Either way, we have to play to our strengths. Is Wenger the coach to get us back to playing that kind of football? Is he as good a defensive coach as Graham, as Mourinho, capable of recreating the brilliant stability we had at the back all those years ago?

Wenger is a totally different type of manager - I don't think he'd ever be willing, or indeed able to successfully adopt that strategy. If we want to go back to 1-0 to the Arsenal, we'll need a different manager to do it. And here's the thing - I'd actually rather watch ineffective attacking football than ineffective defensive football.

 

[Anzac]

Doesn't look as if AW has made any changes to our patterns as yet = looks like the rant is a stand alone action & he's back in a holding/wait & see pattern.

 

[Timleaf]

Well, maybe in Wenger's expert opinion our patterns dont need changing....

 

[Anzac]

Well, maybe in Wenger's expert opinion our patterns dont need changing....

Yeah seeing as they have been doing so well this past decade, and in particular since the unbeaten season........ :roll:

 

[Timleaf]

Well, maybe in Wenger's expert opinion our patterns dont need changing....

Yeah seeing as they have been doing so well this past decade, and in particular since the unbeaten season........ :roll:

This past decade!? Dont know what you're getting at there. We've had tonnes of success over the last 10 years under Wenger. Anyway...

Anzac, just because you think our problems are tactical, doesn't mean that's genuinely the case now does it? If Wenger's not changing our patterns then it's clear he thinks the areas in which we need to improve lie elsewhere. Given that he's in an infinitely better position to judge and far more qualified, I'll trust that judgement.

But that's just me. I'm obviously stupid like that.

 

[Mastadon]

Well, maybe in Wenger's expert opinion our patterns dont need changing....

Yeah seeing as they have been doing so well this past decade, and in particular since the unbeaten season........ :roll:

Why would you think we haven`t changed out patterns recently? Wenger introduced the 4-3-3 just this season and it was all going fine until RVP and to a lesser extent Bendtner got injured. The one injury we couldn`t afford was RVP cos he made the system work.

Wenger is a genius. Nobody thought RVP could work it out as the main striker in a 4-3-3 but he was doing great until he got injured. So its been back to the drawing board for us. We`re still in contention for the title despite playing about half of the season without a proper cf. You don`t think that has something to do with the managers tactical flexibility?

 

[SA Gunner]

Well, maybe in Wenger's expert opinion our patterns dont need changing....

Yeah seeing as they have been doing so well this past decade, and in particular since the unbeaten season........ :roll:

Why would you think we haven`t changed out patterns recently? Wenger introduced the 4-3-3 just this season and it was all going fine until RVP and to a lesser extent Bendtner got injured. The one injury we couldn`t afford was RVP cause he made the system work.

Wenger is a genius. Nobody thought RVP could work it out as the main striker in a 4-3-3 but he was doing great until he got injured. So its been back to the drawing board for us. We`re still in contention for the title despite playing about half of the season without a proper cf. You don`t think that has something to do with the managers tactical flexibility?

We must indeed give it to Wenger, the change of formation was a masterstroke.

However he still deludes himself by not catering for the expected, which are injuries. How does he expect not to create quality depth when a good number of his current squad have NOT proven to be able to go a full season, ESPECIALLY a key member like RVP?

We are experiencing the same problem again and again and this alone is cause for concern for me. Wenger has a chance to cater for this in January and a chance to galvanise the side against this in the European summer. If he doesnt then I will begin to ask questions about what his actual agenda is all about regarding AFC

 

[Klaus Daimler]

How does he expect not to create quality depth when a good number of his current squad have NOT proven to be able to go a full season, ESPECIALLY a key member like RVP?

To be honest Robin did prove it last season. His injuries have never been of the reoccuring type either, like knee or shoulder injuries. It's been random stuff often sustained in situations where any player would break. My concerns prior to the season had more to do with whether Robin would be able to play on the required level for any longer period of time.

We are experiencing the same problem again and again and this alone is cause for concern for me. Wenger has a chance to cater for this in January and a chance to galvanise the side against this in the European summer. If he doesnt then I will begin to ask questions about what his actual agenda is all about regarding AFC

I hate to repeat myself all the time but the answer isn't always just to buy stuff. We've got the necessary quality within the squad already. Those players just need games and confidence (which usually comes with games). And there's no guarantee that a new siging will contribute with anything significant in such a short period of time anyway. I know people are talking about David Villa in the transfer section, but let's be realistic here: we're not signing Villa. And neither is anyone else.

The answer is within our squad. If there ever was a time for fans to have some faith in our attacking squad depth then that time is now. You put Arshavin, Eduardo and one of Bendtner/Vela/Walcott up front, back them up with Fabregas and one of Diaby/Nasri/Rosicky/Denilson and give them a string of games, and I guarantee that we've got an attack capable of punching holes in any defence in Europe, let alone in Premier League.

 

[Anzac]

I'm the first to admit I'm a numpty in regards to qualifications & perhaps my understanding & terminology is misleading as a result.

My take on it is that your tactics comprise of a number of elements including formation, selection, roles, general style of play, and the patterns in attack & defence which ARE the fundamental of the tactic. The first 3 elements are more flexible but the latter 2 are the core of what you do on & off the pitch, to the extent that they go to the decisions regarding your tactics v your players, resources (including finance) & transfers.

I read some time ago in an early interview with AW that he was heavily influenced in his decisions regarding our tactics by confines of the pitch at Highbury. Our formation was 442/4411 but we executed it very much as a 4231. However because of the lack of width we didn't look to attack down the flanks but compressed centrally with the wide men coming inside on & off the ball (hence the lack of genuine wingers since Overmars), with DB10 becoming the playmaker in attack & the other 3 forwards (striker & 2 wide AMs) providing the bulk of the goals. As such our attack behaves very much like the Christmas Tree (4231 with 3 AMCs behind the striker) & we look to focus our attack centrally at the front of the opposition area, as opposed to looking to attack the byline from the flanks other than with the FBs.

On pitches with more width we see teams look to attack the flanks with their central 2 providing the bulk of their goal scoring. Likewise it is interesting to note that the season we played our CL matches at Wembley that we struggled in regards to our lack of width & high pressing line.

Over the years we have changed our formation, general style, roles & type of players - most noteably in defence where they have become both more technical but more importantly have more pace & stamina. Fundamentally the tactical patterns have remained constant in that we primarily play with 1 goal scorer up front, the wide men come inside on & off the ball in attack, the FBs overlap to provide width in the final 3rd.

I recall the question being raised as to how our play would adapt with the larger pitch size at Ashburton Grove. IMO AW has tried to address this with his signings & change of style to a possession passing game, but the extra pitch size and the changes of our type of CMs (primarily Cesc) continue to create issues with those same tactical patterns. I also think the changes to our formation this year to the 3 CM midfield is an attempt to address our defence in the midfield, & the signing of AA is an attempt to adapt our attack on the flanks. It was said some time ago that AW's rebuilding of the team was severely disrupted by the failure of Reyes & the lack of a fox in the box - Walcott was supposed to become the former, but now with AA & Eduardo we see to players of that type.

I'd like to think that AW is looking to change our patterns to have the front 3 look to use more width in the final 3rd to attack the flanks beyond the penalty area, & he has made recent comments after Sunderland that we failed to look to get behind the defence. Likewise if we do so it will release the FBs from their constant involvement in attack, which should in turn provide better cover in defence.

We know that he is very cautious by nature & dislikes making any more than 3 changes to a squad let alone playing XI, & as such I'm hoping that the current injuries are what is preventing him from making these changes to our patterns.

Apologies for length & rambling nature of this post.

 

[qs]

Its all gone a bit FM in here.

 

[kamikaze80]

the usual suspects, qs.

 

[Anzac]

Why is it that any & every discussion about tactics & analysis of anything always be greeted with the same FM response? I recall this happening recently in The Lobby I think & the original poster had no experience with FM at all.........

And in reference to my posts - please feel free to offer your opinions as to where I get it wrong = this is a discussion board????