Draw PL: West Ham United 2 - 2 Arsenal | Sunday, April 16 | KO: 14:00 BST | Sky Sports

@A_G

Spoiler: And look who we play next, ffs...

 

[Dokaka]

How did he lose his midfield battles if he won 8 out of 9 duels? More like he was the only player who won his battles in the game.
Since when do we judge on tackles made? Usually you want to stay on your feet not make tackles. And it was a successful tackle, he never gave away any fouls in the game.

You don't have to go to ground to make a tackle mate.

The duels stat is misleading because it lumps in meaningless headers, which is why I couldn't find stats to back it up. It was pretty clear while watching the game that Xhaka (along with his partners in midfield) were struggling to impose themselves on the game.

Even if you remove the statistical aspect from this conversation, you would have to really make an effort to notice Xhaka was even on the pitch for most of the game. While he wasn't directly involved in anything terrible from what I remember, he was pretty anonymous.

Even with Rice I didn't expect us to get anything out of the midfield battle in this game, but with Partey playing a stinker and Xhaka drifting around without much purpose we ended up actually doing alright there. The first 20 minutes or so was basically what I expected the whole game to be like - we're talking about a team that conceded 75% possession to Fulham - but the lackadaisical approach from your entire midfield opened the door to our comeback.

 

[ArsenalInMyHeart]

You can see Tierney position is someone who can't play Zinchenko role. Also our defence is deep because of holding also G.Jesus dropping much deeper. Its vital we have Zinchenko and saliba back because Arteta won't change his system and Holding Tierney wont be able to do the job

if Arteta's system depends too much on the right players. I'm disappointed if he keeps Tierney Holding in the next season

 

[BergMan]

You don't have to go to ground to make a tackle mate.

The duels stat is misleading because it lumps in meaningless headers, which is why I couldn't find stats to back it up. It was pretty clear while watching the game that Xhaka (along with his partners in midfield) were struggling to impose themselves on the game.

Even if you remove the statistical aspect from this conversation, you would have to really make an effort to notice Xhaka was even on the pitch for most of the game. While he wasn't directly involved in anything terrible from what I remember, he was pretty anonymous.

Even with Rice I didn't expect us to get anything out of the midfield battle in this game, but with Partey playing a stinker and Xhaka drifting around without much purpose we ended up actually doing alright there. The first 20 minutes or so was basically what I expected the whole game to be like - we're talking about a team that conceded 75% possession to Fulham - but the lackadaisical approach from your entire midfield opened the door to our comeback.

Xhaka won 8 out of 10 duels, which is still incredible, especially against a physical midfield.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Lot of people giving us a bottler mentality. Even on here. You could of course say this was a bottle job and we had plenty of time to get back in front, but it’s very very hard to regain momentum once lost. We had our chance with the penalty but blaming this on Saka as some are is harsh to say the least.

After going 2-0, we switched off and tried to lower the tempo and control the game. This is where we lose it. We’ve seen the same before. Not as obvious against Pool but it was there as well. But it’s a pattern we’ve seen before in previous seasons under Arteta. It’s really down to one of two things, or a combination of them; either the players become afraid of losing when going up and start to feel the pressure. Or it’s tactical and Arteta has instructed the team to bring down the tempo and control the game.

Regardless, we bring the tempo down to a pace we’re not used to. We play “walk football” and once you do that a bit too long it’s really hard to get back into gear. You can see the players almost find it boring and they switch off or become nonchalant. No movement, slow on the ball, no risk-taking. It’s a completely different way of going about the game mentally and that’s why it’s hard to get back.

I believe this is actually on Arteta more than the players. He’s the one bottling it.

The team does start parking the bus and stop pressing after they take a lead. Is this all on Arteta? In the past I have seen him encouraging players to press forward while we've dropped into the parked bus. The pressing game we've played this season is extremely physically demanding. I don't think it's surprising the players want to take a rest by dropping deep after taking a lead. I think we need more bite in the midfield, like 2 regens of Vieira or Petit or Gilberto to break up the oppositions counter attacks.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

A tackle or an interception is not a duel. A duel is when you contest an opponent on the ground or in the air. That is where you win or lose individual battles, and Xhaka won his. He‘s not judged on interceptions. He’s avoiding tackles, which is a good thing but for some odd reason you’re treating it like a negative.

If a player has to make a tackle then it likely means they’ve made a mistake regarding their positioning.

A tackle is a dual, an interception isn't. You can't even list what duals he won, because you don't know but most of his duals won were headers

And yes winning the ball back through intercepting and tacking is an important part of being a midfielder and Xhaka simply can not do that. The quote from Alonso about tackling being a mistake in positioning is because Alonso would intercept before needing to make the tackle but he would also tackle frequently to win the ball back. Xhaka does neither

 

[BergMan]

A tackle is a dual, an interception isn't. You can't even list what duals he won, because you don't know but most of his duals won were headers

And yes winning the ball back through intercepting and tacking is an important part of being a midfielder and Xhaka simply can not do that. The quote from Alonso about tackling being a mistake in positioning is because Alonso would intercept before needing to make the tackle but he would also tackle frequently to win the ball back. Xhaka does neither

A tackle is not a duel. A duel is a 50-50 won against an opponent. If it’s in the ground it’s a ground duel, in the air then it’s an aerial duel.
A tackle is an attempt to win the ball from an opponent who already has possession.
And it’s a quote from Maldini.
Xhaka had great positioning he didn’t need to make tackles. The best defenders in the world rarely make tackles. They stand their ground. And because of that the opponent doesn’t try to play past them so there’s no chance for an interception in the play either.

 

[Clrnc]

Yesterday was a definite bottle job. Just ask @Dokaka , I'm sure he was the same as all the West Ham fans around me in the stands, he was fearing 5, 6 goals thrashing. We were running rings around them and they were chasing shadows.

Then we let them get into the game, dropped intensity and never recovered. If it's a one off its fine, but to do this in consecutive weeks when we had 6 points COMFORTABLY in our hands to throw it away is something else. No surprise we are now the first team to do that ever while being top of the league.

 

[Alexs]

A young team being mentally and physically fatigued at this stage of a season, pretty much all of it spent at the top with a juggernaut just behind, is not a surprise. Nor is it necessarily a great excuse but it's not 'bottling'.

 

[BergMan]

The team’s not fatigued they’re playing a game a week they’re getting plenty of rest. It may have been an excuse in November or January when we were playing 3 games a week but certainly not now.

It seems as if the team got overconfident yesterday, lost focus then panicked. Flicks and tricks and players trying to dribble too much on their own for no reason, unprofessional.

 

[Riou]

Just goes to show how important experience is with title fights, when you get to the last part of the season...players are really feeling the pressure, not easy to deal with that.

I remember back to 2004 when we last won it, the players were fantastic in every league match that season (most were already league winners from 02, or had won major silverware elsewhere) then as soon as the title was confirmed and we had the chance to do it unbeaten, you could see them all kinda go..."Oh ****, we could be Invincible here"

No one had any experience doing that, and you could see the players (better ones then we have now) get very nervous, not really knowing how to approach the last few games...and they were a proper slog for us, but thankfully we did it.

Back in 1989 (very similar to this team) the team got into a great position to end our title drought of near two decades, then looked liked they had bottled it with some horrible results/performances near the end, before they eventually best Liverpool on the last day...but in 1991, pretty much the same group walked the league with ease as they now had that belief in them.

We have some super talented players in this team, but it all comes down to how their minds cope with this...think it's important for them that we as fans don't give up on them until it's mathematically over, think that's the best chance we will have to do it.

I know it's torture for us too, plus we will have to deal with the banter if we don't do it...but this is where we as a fanbase should always want to be!

 

[steppenwolf]

 

[steppenwolf]

You're nuts. We threw away two 2-0 leads within the space of one week trying to win the league. You don't do that.

We're still trying and we're all gonna be here next week. Hopefully to see a w.

 

[steppenwolf]

Shut the **** up, we needed to win this.

Lol we needed to win @ LFC too
So what? Chill.

I didn't like how the game went especially the endgame.

 

[Beany]

Back in 1989 (very similar to this team) the team got into a great position to end our title drought of near two decades, then looked liked they had bottled it with some horrible results/performances near the end, before they eventually best Liverpool on the last day...but in 1991, pretty much the same group walked the league with ease as they now had that belief in them.

This is exactly it.

Many on this forum have little to no experience of watching Arsenal as genuine title contenders.

We won at Anfield in 89, despite appearing to falter in the run in, because we had no choice; we played the 90 minutes plus, as Wenger would have put it had he been around, with the handbrake entirely off.

Obviously that was a unique situation against our direct title rival on the last day of the season, but there are comparisons to City next week.

At one level we have to beat the best to be the best.

But we also need to have the confidence to play our own game, rather than falling back on more traditional footballing concepts such as “what we have we hold”. Slowing the game down didn’t in the end help us against Liverpool (albeit we conceded very late in the game) And certainly not at West Ham, where that approach started at the 30 minute mark and basically gave the result away from a massively dominant position. There is no chance (in my opinion) of setting out for and achieving a draw at the Etihad next week. If by some chance we score the first goal, we can’t sit back - in that eventuality the intelligent use of Martinelli, in my opinion our most dangerous player in the toolbox against City, will be key.

We‘d obviously all take a draw if offered now because it would keep the title in our own hands, assuming (as I do) that we’ll get back on the horse and overcome Southampton on Friday.

But imagine the scenes if we did the business on Friday, went there, won on our own terms and came away with a ten point lead?

As per Anfield 89 it’s looks like mission impossible in context of the last seven days results but it really isn’t. Its just a game of football.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Me this morning

 

[Macho]

Anyways, cue the kids don’t win you anything cliches, the hammer blow puns in the headlines, bottle etc let’s get it over with.

 

[MartiSaka]

This is exactly it.

Many on this forum have little to no experience of watching Arsenal as genuine title contenders.

We won at Anfield in 89, despite appearing to falter in the run in, because we had no choice; we played the 90 minutes plus, as Wenger would have put it had he been around, with the handbrake entirely off.

Obviously that was a unique situation against our direct title rival on the last day of the season, but there are comparisons to City next week.

At one level we have to beat the best to be the best.

But we also need to have the confidence to play our own game, rather than falling back on more traditional footballing concepts such as “what we have we hold”. Slowing the game down didn’t in the end help us against Liverpool (albeit we conceded very late in the game) And certainly not at West Ham, where that approach started at the 30 minute mark and basically gave the result away from a massively dominant position. There is no chance (in my opinion) of setting out for and achieving a draw at the Etihad next week. If by some chance we score the first goal, we can’t sit back - in that eventuality the intelligent use of Martinelli, in my opinion our most dangerous player in the toolbox against City, will be key.

We‘d obviously all take a draw if offered now because it would keep the title in our own hands, assuming (as I do) that we’ll get back on the horse and overcome Southampton on Friday.

But imagine the scenes if we did the business on Friday, went there, won on our own terms and came away with a ten point lead?

As per Anfield 89 it’s looks like mission impossible in context of the last seven days results but it really isn’t. Its just a game of football.

IMO 25% chance of happening, but you would have still taken it at the start of the year for sure.

 

[RunTheTrap]

I can’t lie, this result hurt me to my core. I've been listening “The Way Life Goes” on repeat like it's 2017 all over again. I would much rather lose the title back in February than this. The final ten game stretch to bottle it like this is a pain I only want Sp**s fans to feel.

 

[MartiSaka]

The team’s not fatigued they’re playing a game a week they’re getting plenty of rest. It may have been an excuse in November or January when we were playing 3 games a week but certainly not now.

It seems as if the team got overconfident yesterday, lost focus then panicked. Flicks and tricks and players trying to dribble too much on their own for no reason, unprofessional.

Maybe not physically but possibly mentally. We have been leading the whole season and have already had to pull out some desperate last minute wins against Bournemouth, villa and utd. You exert a lot of emotion in such games, it was one of my concerns, given there were still so many games to go. IMO whilst they have stayed on course and continued to win, most of the 2nd half of the season has been a struggle, it hasn’t come easily.

 

[razörist]

I feel horrific today

Dont want to do anything or read anything

What a way to blow it