f**king hell.
WTF was that....
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UCL | PSG v Arsenal | 13th of September at 19:45 (GMT)
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WTF was that....
We've just played a Coq-Caz midfield two games in a row, and I am absolutely lost trying to figure out why.
Not playing Elneny makes sense I guess if Wenger deems him the least useful of the options. Pairing that with Xhaka being benched as well though, just... why? He's supposed to be the future of our midfield, brought in for 30+ million because he's genuinely a great player. Across a span of 4 days, and two types of competitions though, Wenger ignored these two good options and reverted back to the partnership of last season. Has he realized Xhaka doesn't have a suitable partner? Does he maybe not rate him as much as he thought he would? Is he playing it safe while experimenting something new?
I don't like this to be honest, it makes me feel like we really haven't progressed. It seems like after all these buys, Mustafi is the only one we'll be getting regular use out of this season. Xhaka hasn't played much despite being fit, and Perez will likely need a good couple of games to settle into both the club and league.
Not playing Elneny makes sense I guess if Wenger deems him the least useful of the options. Pairing that with Xhaka being benched as well though, just... why? He's supposed to be the future of our midfield, brought in for 30+ million because he's genuinely a great player. Across a span of 4 days, and two types of competitions though, Wenger ignored these two good options and reverted back to the partnership of last season. Has he realized Xhaka doesn't have a suitable partner? Does he maybe not rate him as much as he thought he would? Is he playing it safe while experimenting something new?
I don't like this to be honest, it makes me feel like we really haven't progressed. It seems like after all these buys, Mustafi is the only one we'll be getting regular use out of this season. Xhaka hasn't played much despite being fit, and Perez will likely need a good couple of games to settle into both the club and league.
ArtetaCognition
Granit Xhaka Enthusiast
Country: Ireland
Still failing to understand these 'why doesn't he play his strongest team?' comments.
The team he started tonight was what he sees as our strongest team. Do I agree with the selection? No. I thought Elneny and Giroud should have started but that is beside the point. Cech was not rested. He was dropped because he has been poor recently. Can a manager not alter his team selection without all the hand throwing guys?
The team he started tonight was what he sees as our strongest team. Do I agree with the selection? No. I thought Elneny and Giroud should have started but that is beside the point. Cech was not rested. He was dropped because he has been poor recently. Can a manager not alter his team selection without all the hand throwing guys?
Wrighty4eva
Established Member
Really didn't get wengers team selection in this game, like a lot of things wenger related these days, would love it if we stopped trying to play Alexis as an out an out striker, as I've said in previous threads he looks absolutely lost up there on his own, and im pretty much done with Ox his status as a young up and coming talent has pretty much played out time to bench his ass, should have kept Campbell and got rid of either him or Walcott they have rode the "English starlets" tag long enough...
Goonerozil33
Active Member
I am not sure why everyone is so upset with the team selection. I mean how do any of us know the fitness levels of these players. I think Wenger played the team based on the fitness level. Also we just bought mustafi. It will take a month or two before we will get used to pressing higher. So till such a time we will see spacing issues. I am very happy with the result. I can count so many matches where we outplayed other teams and came away with nothing. It is not important to play well now. It is important to improve slowly for the second half of the season
RUS arsenal
Established Member
Oh hey, somebody actually missed me!
Thanks, hopefully this season we'll be battling it out regarding which of our strikers is better rather than which one is lesser of evils...
I'm 90% sure it's actually just an agreement where Cech gets league games and Ospina gets cup games, unless injuries or significantly poor form comes into play.
Nyctophobia
Established Member
I missed you too!Oh hey, somebody actually missed me!
Thanks, hopefully this season we'll be battling it out regarding which of our strikers is better rather than which one is lesser of evils...
And indeed; let's hope so, one can only prove the haters wrong so many times before it gets boring.
Besides the Ospina vs Cech thing, there was plenty to complain about regarding the lineup. We may have gotten a point, but there was one team out there that looked way better than the other and it wasn't us. In regards to the selected team, the midfield and attack understandably left many people pissed, and why shouldn't they be?
We persisted with Coq-Caz. Why? We just bought an expensive midfielder, he's been here for over three months now, and he's fit. How come we haven't made it work yet?
Alexis was played up front. What's the point? He hasn't had a successful game there yet, and we're going to take another chance at it against one of Europe's best teams? As predicted, he played so much better when he was pushed to the wing later in the game. He was able to influence the game because he actually got to be on the ball, he got on the scoresheet... Meanwhile, Giroud has barely played even though the Euros were like 2 months ago now. Yet another time delay, and this forced Wenger to have Chamberlain back in the side who just isn't there at the moment.
We persisted with Coq-Caz. Why? We just bought an expensive midfielder, he's been here for over three months now, and he's fit. How come we haven't made it work yet?
Alexis was played up front. What's the point? He hasn't had a successful game there yet, and we're going to take another chance at it against one of Europe's best teams? As predicted, he played so much better when he was pushed to the wing later in the game. He was able to influence the game because he actually got to be on the ball, he got on the scoresheet... Meanwhile, Giroud has barely played even though the Euros were like 2 months ago now. Yet another time delay, and this forced Wenger to have Chamberlain back in the side who just isn't there at the moment.
well... so in reality our best team is **** then, without Cavani Bendtner routine we probably have 3-4 nil loss..
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NotAUserName
Guest
I feel like Wenger started Alexis instead of Giroud to enable us to counter if need be but PSG were more conservative, perhaps due to the presence of Alexis. Still, Alexis wasn't the problem. It was the fact that Özil had a very subpar match that destroyed our attack and was forcing Alexis to drop even deeper to get on the ball.
That midfield though was a disaster.
That midfield though was a disaster.
Brett
Active Member
The game was well balanced. Did I think they had the better chances yes but too much is being made out of it.
The commentators were awfully biased. If it was a tackle by Thiago Silva it was world class. If it was a tackle from one of our defenders it was last ditch psg is ripping us.....etc
The main reason why our defence looked bad was not because it was bad because we were playing a very high line.(I mean we could not have played any higher). We had to do that because we were chasing the game our strategy was totally out of the window after the first minute .We did not have the long ball route because of lack of height. So we had to pass it to the front three.
You'll think mustafi was bad? funny i saw monreal beaten for pace and a 100 crosses into the box and each one them dealt well by bellerin kos and mustafi.
At present we are over analysing away to psg a draw is a very good result. Again when we do it...ohhh arsenal not convincing and over the seasons when united and chelsea did it ....SAF and mourinho they know how to grind out results etc.
I predicted a while ago that coquelin will probably start more games than xhaka when the season started for which I was mocked. I see that happening many times more.
And for the positives what a player we have got in Iwobi:bounce:. If he would have been playing for a bundesliga team we would have been saying he is world class let's pay 30 million. The guy keeps it simple and everything comes naturally to him and at 20 wow. Wenger should offer him the contract like fabregas(8years). Negatives Ox ....but i think he is getting there wenger should persist with him for few more games a goal from him will see him improve.
We will definitely beat them at home if we keep up the same performance.
The commentators were awfully biased. If it was a tackle by Thiago Silva it was world class. If it was a tackle from one of our defenders it was last ditch psg is ripping us.....etc
The main reason why our defence looked bad was not because it was bad because we were playing a very high line.(I mean we could not have played any higher). We had to do that because we were chasing the game our strategy was totally out of the window after the first minute .We did not have the long ball route because of lack of height. So we had to pass it to the front three.
You'll think mustafi was bad? funny i saw monreal beaten for pace and a 100 crosses into the box and each one them dealt well by bellerin kos and mustafi.
At present we are over analysing away to psg a draw is a very good result. Again when we do it...ohhh arsenal not convincing and over the seasons when united and chelsea did it ....SAF and mourinho they know how to grind out results etc.
I predicted a while ago that coquelin will probably start more games than xhaka when the season started for which I was mocked. I see that happening many times more.
And for the positives what a player we have got in Iwobi:bounce:. If he would have been playing for a bundesliga team we would have been saying he is world class let's pay 30 million. The guy keeps it simple and everything comes naturally to him and at 20 wow. Wenger should offer him the contract like fabregas(8years). Negatives Ox ....but i think he is getting there wenger should persist with him for few more games a goal from him will see him improve.
We will definitely beat them at home if we keep up the same performance.
Lancelot
Established Member
In addition to the fitness levels, I think that there was a sound logic behind his selections, whether one agrees with it or not.
Firstly, since the beginning of the season, we have yet to find our usual rhythm going forwards for a sustained period of time throughout the whole 90 minutes of play in any of the matches we played.
Secondly, our main objective in this UCL group stage is to clearly finish at the top of the group and the away game against PSG is undoubtedly the most difficult one to realistically get the 3 points. It's the one game that we should be aiming for a draw if we have neither been in any kind of good form nor had a settled first XI.
Regardless of what Wenger said in the press conference, our setup reeked of 1 point, in my opinion.
Giroud (12' + 28'), Elneny (67' + 20') and Perez (62') have all played less than 90 minutes of football and you could conclude that they weren't carrying any kind of form going into the PSG game.
Elneny was an interesting case among those 3 because he is clearly fit and he earned a starting spot in our first match against Liverpool; alas, I believe that Wenger was upset enough with his inability to control our midfield that he lost his spot immediately afterwards.
To the best of my recollection, he was missing throughout the match and our CBs had to constantly resort to the fullbacks as their passing options.
You could obviously say that, between him and Coq in a game that you favour one's defensive ability, you would go with Coq against PSG.
Now, Xhaka; after about 186 minutes of playing time in 3 successive games since his first sub appearance against Liverpool and what looked to be a 'rest' that he had when we played Southampton, why wouldn't he start?
I don't necessarily agree with Wenger on this but I actually understand his possible reasoning; I think that the Albanian didn't start because, despite his superiority in creativity and passing compared to Coq, his off-the-ball positioning whenever we defend is still a little bit off as we can witness from plenty of 'late' challenges that he did during those 3 matches and he is clearly less of a mobile player than Coq.
For now, if I want reassurance in defence, I would prefer Coq over him as well.
Lastly, once you take the fact that we conceded a goal within the 1st minute into consideration, all of the above seem like a complete b*llocks if I'm being completely honest. But hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.
Looking back carefully the way I did, I wouldn't say that Wenger got his team sheet 'wrong'.
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NotAUserName
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@Lancelot
Why not play Xhaka instead of Cazorla then? It would make no difference as Coquelin will still play higher like he did today. On the other hand, we'll have a more defensively sound player in Xhaka (instead of Cazorla) as the deeper of the two midfielders.
In fact, the goal we conceded could partly be attributed to the fact that our setup calls for a player like Cazorla to play deeper.
Why not play Xhaka instead of Cazorla then? It would make no difference as Coquelin will still play higher like he did today. On the other hand, we'll have a more defensively sound player in Xhaka (instead of Cazorla) as the deeper of the two midfielders.
In fact, the goal we conceded could partly be attributed to the fact that our setup calls for a player like Cazorla to play deeper.
Country: Norway
Good result with a poor performance. If we are to take something positive from this game, it is that we did not buckle completely during those first 30 minutes. With a clinical striker this would have been over by half time.
I thought Iwobi looked lively when he came on. Long term I have more belief that he will make it, than that Ox will.
We will now play four matches in eleven days. I suspect things will be clearer by then.
I thought Iwobi looked lively when he came on. Long term I have more belief that he will make it, than that Ox will.
We will now play four matches in eleven days. I suspect things will be clearer by then.
SuperGoon
Lost A Bet And Now He’s A Top G
Country: Ireland
Player:Saka
Surely we've used all our good luck tokens already this season?
Lancelot
Established Member
Great question and a good point, mate.
I'd say that Wenger probably preferred Cazorla over Xhaka because he is our best midfielder when it comes down to close control.
In a game where the pressure in midfield is immense, you would want him there to make sure that we have less chance of getting caught in our transition from defence to attack.
Mind you, I don't think Xhaka would keep getting caught in possession by PSG's midfielders or anything, but I haven't seen anything from him to suggest that he is better than Cazorla in that regard.
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NotAUserName
Guest
Obviously he is not better than Cazorla at that but I would have still gone for the much more secure option from a defensive standpoint, especially away to the toughest opponent in our group.
Country: Australia
There are probably a few logical reasons he hasn't used him in this match yet . I don't think any of them would be he can't find natural partner for him as he has looked at him for two years . Pretty sure he will integrate Xhaka soon enough .
FinnGooner
Established Member
1) A balanced performance? They had a player one on one with our GK 6 times in the game! SIX. Wenger himself said that in the first half our midfield wasn't connecting with our offenense. That translates to me as unbalanced.
2) Who gives a **** about the commentators? You think people are criticising the performance because of what commentators said!?
3) It is a very good result but not a convincing performance. Once again, I don't give a **** what people say about Mourinho or SAF etc. Based on this game alone, and nothing else, I say it was a very good point but a lucky one since they should've scored at least three goals with even average finishing.
4) Ox is not getting there. He was worse now than against Soton and he should not play in games of this caliber. He certainly shoun't start them. Starting XI of Arsenal FC is not a place to learn basics of football. He can't pass and his touch is shambolic. It's infuriating how much defenders this guy has while other players are thrown under he bus for lot less. Ox is hands down our worst player at the moment.
5) I will promise you that if we give them six one on ones with our keeper at home we will lose. We will need to improve and we will improve. I'm 100% sure Wenger is not happy with that performance and thank god you're not out manager if you really think that performance will get us anywhere in the long run. We will win PSG at home though if we get to our level and they play as poorly as they did today. It was a unconvicing performance for both sides. I think we'll see much better football at Emirates
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