Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[shootxhakashoot]

For me it’s simple. If we aspire to be a top4 club with an occasional title push we have to get rid of Wenger. I love the old man and am grateful for what he has done for this Club in the past. The last two seasons are a clear proof he is past it in terms of what it means to run a modern day footbal club. Being a charismatic figure with fatherly relationship towards players was something that clearly worked for us in the past.

Nowdays in the world of social platforms where players are considered products, trend makers and world superstars, money is the only value that bears significant meaning. In that regard everything that Wenger believes in, values like honesty, loyalty, the will to better yourself through believing in player’s abilities and thus giving them confidence, is outdated.

His approach doesn’t produce results becasue it’s still rooted in values that aren’t considered as such anymore. They’re seen as weaknesses and players are using that to benefit their own personal needs or motivations. There’s no ruthlesness, no accountability it just seems the team is going through the motion waiting for that final blow, a bullet to the head.

I always thought Wenger is smart enough to be able to recognise or realise when the time has come for him to call it a day. I was wrong, he’s just an old stubborn man now and the picture of a charismatic footbal genius is quickly fading away.

I agree with you on everything you say except honesty. If honesty was one of his values he would have accepted in the summer that his time was up and passed the baton onto someone with new ideas. Not sign a new 10million contract.

 

[Mark Tobias]

@Makingtrax if a new manager comes in and wins the league with fairly few additions (unlikely, I know) will you eat your words?

 

[shootxhakashoot]

@Makingtrax if a new manager comes in and wins the league with fairly few additions (unlikely, I know) will you eat your words?

I think a 2nd/3rd even 4th place finish should result in eating of words as well. We've been out of top 4 for 2 seasons now so that is the level of his god, so therefore anything better than that should result in word eating and there are plenty of "words" been spewed forth.

 

[Mark Tobias]

I think a 2nd/3rd even 4th place finish should result in eating of words as well. We've been out of top 4 for 2 seasons now so that is the level of his god, so therefore anything better than that should result in word eating and there are plenty of "words" been spewed forth.

A 4th place finish will only have Trax stating "AW achieved twenty of those, get back to me when the new man has done that"

 

[pacstud]

Sounds like people are worried less about club results and more about the juvenile smacking of gums.

 

[Furious]

I think a 2nd/3rd even 4th place finish should result in eating of words as well. We've been out of top 4 for 2 seasons now so that is the level of his god, so therefore anything better than that should result in word eating and there are plenty of "words" been spewed forth.

We've been doing that with Wenger for years, hardly exciting finishing in those places. We have to win the league soon.

Some idiots used to claim that it would do us well finishing below CL places. Not heard that for a while, wonder why

 

[Makingtrax]

@Makingtrax if a new manager comes in and wins the league with fairly few additions (unlikely, I know) will you eat your words?

It's just probability bro. It's highly unlikely spending 5th in the league you'll beat City and United with managers like Pep and Mourinho over 38 games, with them blowing the budget too.

Abramovic on the other hand is taking his foot off the peddle with the stadium cost on the horizon.

Liverpool are spending 4th but now have a windfall with Coutinho's money. And their £75m CB has made a big difference to them leaking goals. If Sp**s can keep Kane, Alli and Erickson they'll be in the mix as well.

If we win the league in the next few years without a massive injection of capital into the defence and midfield I'll eat my cat.

You're having a go at someone who lives on the opposite side of the world for not regularly going to football matches in England

Ever heard of a representative sample? Anfield had a good atmosphere on this one occasion, nice, not much you can infer from this one observation. Besides, I'd prefer to listen to the thoughts of Liverpool fans when it comes to their own stadium.

Also, it's a CL quarter final against a domestic rival, how do you think the fans are going to be? I know it's been a while since we've been relevant in the CL but if you go back far enough, I'm sure you'll find the fans go bonkers during a home fixture in the CL *coughs* Barcelona 2011.

Imagine comparing the atmospheres of a league fixture between two underperforming teams in Arsenal and Southampton and a CL QF between two teams capable of playing scintillating football.

Rubbish, it's not the only time I've been to the Emirates, just the most recent. And the Liverpool match I saw was an ordinary league game. I've also been to Molineux to watch Wolves with a mate a few weeks ago and The Meadow to watch Shrewsbury Town this season. There was only about 8000 at Shrewsbury but they still made a decent noise.

For the number of fans, the Emirates is a quiet stadium. I'm not discussing this anymore, it's got nothing to do with Wenger and you've never been. Pointless.

 

[Mark Tobias]

I'll eat my cat.
.

Not asking for murder, bro.

 

[IslingtonBornandbred]

@Makingtrax if a new manager comes in and wins the league with fairly few additions (unlikely, I know) will you eat your words?

If a new manager comes in and tightens up the defence, improves the work ethic and accountability, improves us tactically and fixes our long standing weaknesses then that's a step in the right direction.

They used to say a few years ago we may have to go backwards to go forwards. Well, we've already got backwards. A couple of FA cups are nice, but they should be bonuses to the longer term project and goal of moving forward. Whilst opponents view us as easy to play against and a push over that they can just overpower and run through whilst we defend like we do as a team, then I can't see us moving forward.

Wenger refuses to address the fundamentals like having a defensive midfielder. Managers like Pep, Klopp and Pochettino have really come into this league and stepped up the intensity. Ox spoke about the demands and expectations that's placed on him now by Klopp. He has to press in a certain way, at a certain time and he's held accountable for not being in a very specific position...whereas Wenger still deploys this style where it appears the little details out of possession aren't worked on so much, you just need to look at someone like Alex Iwobi who needs that instruction.

Nobody knows what the answer is any more. It's boring. The fans are sick and tired of losing in the same way. We had a spell where it seemed we were on the right path with the Cazorla, Özil, Alexis dynamic but what were they missing? They were missing another striker, and failed attempts of signing Suarez, Vardy, Higuain and being indecisive about Lacazette cost us. The RVP, Cesc team were a good defensive midfielder and centre back away from winning the league. This current group, he's gone and got Auba and Lacazette but we are further away than ever because the team is not only missing a DM and CB but they have no intensity or leadership. Wenger always seems to try and do it the hard way, if it's widely acknowledged that we need a DM, he won't sign one. He'd rather stick with an Arteta or Xhaka and try and do a temporary repair rather than doing the proper job and going out and buying one.

This team is lacking technical and tactical attributes but the mentality, intelligence and intensity to compete and challenge for balls is awful. When that Monreal header goes into the air yesterday, you've got five or six players just standing around and watching as usual. They are missing a couple of vitals ingredients psychologically.

Klopp sold Coutinho and went and bought Van Djik. If that was Wenger, he's persist with Lovren and Matip and pretend everything was OK. I'd respect Wenger so much more in recent times if he identified and recognised the key problems and conceded his beliefs and addressed the issues, took advice from elsewhere and he might of even had to hand over some of the coaching on the training pitch to a new coach who specialises in defence but he refuses to do so.

Somebody tell me what Wenger's philosophy is these days, or what style of play he's trying to accomplish? Some people get a lot of stick for saying Wenger "doesn't do tactic" or Wenger just says "go out and play lads, be free" but what do we do? Do we press or do we get back into shape and be compact? When we get the ball, do we look to go through the middle or do we get it out wide? How do we attack?

Saying all that, it boils down to the same point. It's time to go. Win or lose the Europa League it's time to go. What the next manager does or doesn't do is irrelevant.

 

[Makingtrax]

Sounds like people are worried less about club results and more about the juvenile smacking of gums.

About the size of it. Like a mob waiting for someone to say something vaguely complimentary about Wenger.

 

[Beksl]

I agree with you on everything you say except honesty. If honesty was one of his values he would have accepted in the summer that his time was up and passed the baton onto someone with new ideas. Not sign a new 10million contract.

Maybe I worded it a bit awkwardly. I meant honesty as something he’s showing towards his players and is expecting the same in return.

As for him extending, I think he honestly believes he can turn things around. Unfortunately he’s failing miserably and should rightfully call it a day at the end if this season. Stubborn as he seems to be it won’t happen so either the board sack him or we have to endure another season of failures.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

We've been doing that with Wenger for years, hardly exciting finishing in those places. We have to win the league soon.

Some idiots used to claim that it would do us well finishing below CL places. Not heard that for a while, wonder why

It is going to take us years to win the league is the truth, the squad we have has been allowed to turn into a mess of lightweights with no physical or mental presence and/or average and below average players and has no sort of structure or design. Its just a mess of sometimes talented but mismatched players from what I can see.
A big clean out of players and club culture change is needed before we challenge for the league.

 

[IslingtonBornandbred]

For the number of fans, the Emirates is a quiet stadium. I'm not discussing this anymore, it's got nothing to do with Wenger and you've never been. Pointless.

I think the stadium isn't designed to hold or project noise that well to be honest.

But.

Like any ground, I've seen the Emirates rocking this season. The atmosphere against Sp**s at Home was one of the loudest I've heard. But for meaningless games like a 3pm kick off against West Brom when we are 3rd-6th...it's dead. Liverpool was the same a couple of days ago against Bournemouth.

When we beat Leicester 2-1 in 2016 to take us top of the league the ground was electric. If you give the fans something to get "up for" they'll get up for it, but unfortunately the ticket prices and the culture nowadays means the Emirates will never be like River Plate or Boca Juniors.

I don't think the noise levels have anything to do Wenger or using it to justify or excuse poor form/performances though.

 

[Mark Tobias]

About the size of it. Like a mob waiting for someone to say something vaguely complimentary about Wenger.

As opposed to your stance of rubbishing everything we say about him because it doesn't suit your god agenda.

Answer these pertinent questions an then talk...

If a new manager comes in and tightens up the defence, improves the work ethic and accountability, improves us tactically and fixes our long standing weaknesses then that's a step in the right direction.

They used to say a few years ago we may have to go backwards to go forwards. Well, we've already got backwards. A couple of FA cups are nice, but they should be bonuses to the longer term project and goal of moving forward. Whilst opponents view us as easy to play against and a push over that they can just overpower and run through whilst we defend like we do as a team, then I can't see us moving forward.

Wenger refuses to address the fundamentals like having a defensive midfielder. Managers like Pep, Klopp and Pochettino have really come into this league and stepped up the intensity. Ox spoke about the demands and expectations that's placed on him now by Klopp. He has to press in a certain way, at a certain time and he's held accountable for not being in a very specific position...whereas Wenger still deploys this style where it appears the little details out of possession aren't worked on so much, you just need to look at someone like Alex Iwobi who needs that instruction.

Nobody knows what the answer is any more. It's boring. The fans are sick and tired of losing in the same way. We had a spell where it seemed we were on the right path with the Cazorla, Özil, Alexis dynamic but what were they missing? They were missing another striker, and failed attempts of signing Suarez, Vardy, Higuain and being indecisive about Lacazette cost us. The RVP, Cesc team were a good defensive midfielder and centre back away from winning the league. This current group, he's gone and got Auba and Lacazette but we are further away than ever because the team is not only missing a DM and CB but they have no intensity or leadership. Wenger always seems to try and do it the hard way, if it's widely acknowledged that we need a DM, he won't sign one. He'd rather stick with an Arteta or Xhaka and try and do a temporary repair rather than doing the proper job and going out and buying one.

This team is lacking technical and tactical attributes but the mentality, intelligence and intensity to compete and challenge for balls is awful. When that Monreal header goes into the air yesterday, you've got five or six players just standing around and watching as usual. They are missing a couple of vitals ingredients psychologically.

Klopp sold Coutinho and went and bought Van Djik. If that was Wenger, he's persist with Lovren and Matip and pretend everything was OK. I'd respect Wenger so much more in recent times if he identified and recognised the key problems and conceded his beliefs and addressed the issues, took advice from elsewhere and he might of even had to hand over some of the coaching on the training pitch to a new coach who specialises in defence but he refuses to do so.

Somebody tell me what Wenger's philosophy is these days, or what style of play he's trying to accomplish? Some people get a lot of stick for saying Wenger "doesn't do tactic" or Wenger just says "go out and play lads, be free" but what do we do? Do we press or do we get back into shape and be compact? When we get the ball, do we look to go through the middle or do we get it out wide? How do we attack?

Saying all that, it boils down to the same point. It's time to go. Win or lose the Europa League it's time to go. What the next manager does or doesn't do is irrelevant.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

We've been doing that with Wenger for years, hardly exciting finishing in those places. We have to win the league soon.

Some idiots used to claim that it would do us well finishing below CL places. Not heard that for a while, wonder why

And no doing well is not finishing below champions league places and its not useful to do so from the clubs point of view. However its not the be all and end all to be playing in that comp either especially as with everything else we dont put in the necessary effort to compete and barely got anywhere near the latter stages lately.
Getting Champions league has just been masking all of the managers failings in consistency as there is nothing wrong with us as a cup club clearly and we can turn most teams over on a one game basis.
Its consistency over more than one game that has always let us down though and always will with this manager in charge. By that I mean visible consistency on the pitch from one game to the next before anyone says the manager is consistent and has done this and that for 20years blah blah blah...

 

[BobP]

It's just probability bro. It's highly unlikely spending 5th in the league you'll beat City and United with managers like Pep and Mourinho over 38 games, with them blowing the budget too.

Abramovic on the other hand is taking his foot off the peddle with the stadium cost on the horizon.

Liverpool are spending 4th but now have a windfall with Coutinho's money. And their £75m CB has made a big difference to them leaking goals. If Sp**s can keep Kane, Alli and Erickson they'll be in the mix as well.

If we win the league in the next few years without a massive injection of capital into the defence and midfield I'll eat my cat.

Rubbish, it's not the only time I've been to the Emirates, just the most recent. And the Liverpool match I saw was an ordinary league game. I've also been to Molineux to watch Wolves with a mate a few weeks ago and The Meadow to watch Shrewsbury Town this season. There was only about 8000 at Shrewsbury but they still made a decent noise.

For the number of fans, the Emirates is a quiet stadium. I'm not discussing this anymore, it's got nothing to do with Wenger and you've never been. Pointless.

You're the one who brought up fans in a thread about the manager.

You blamed the fans for our current predicament FFS

 

[celestis]

We've been doing that with Wenger for years, hardly exciting finishing in those places. We have to win the league soon.

Some idiots used to claim that it would do us well finishing below CL places. Not heard that for a while, wonder why

Yeah , been skipping over their posts since then .

 

[BobP]

When @Makingtrax is found to be a troll @celestis will be held responsible for making him a 'trusted member'.

 

[Gooner Zig]

FWIW - I think these early Sunday KO times have almost as much to do with the ****ty atmosphere as with our performances. **** time to watch footy.

 

[celestis]

When @Makingtrax is found to be a troll @celestis will be held responsible for making him a 'trusted member'.

Your thinking too much about Trax