I'm South African, pretty difficult to ignore my own country's issues. Regardless, I stay away from the political debate as much as possible. Ramaphosa is my current avatar. Means very little.Didn’t you have Zuma as your avatar not long ago?
This opinion, which I share, is why I don;t get the uproar either. Not that I knew who this Erdogan dude was anyway until I googled him.Why the uproar? Our players have taken pictures with war criminals like Tony Blair long before Özil did. No one has bat an eyelid, I wonder why?
May not have had much of a choice seeing his wife's family live in Turkey . Very hard to turn down Presidential requests .
He has been hanging with Erdogan since his Madrid days, it’s nothing new. Just back then Turkey and the UK/EU policy positions were more aligned, hence why he didn’t hear about it even though abuses against journalists were occurring at the time
Well, this is probably equal to having a cup of tea with TrumpWhy the uproar? Our players have taken pictures with war criminals like Tony Blair long before Özil did. No one has bat an eyelid, I wonder why?
I didn't make the sisi comparison to say two wrong make a right. I did it for perspective. Is Erodgan an abuser of rights but western standards, you bet he is. The focus on him though is because of that, but it's because of his geopolitical policy decisions that Western powers and Saudi Arabia dont agree with, and so there has been this push to portray him alongside the likes of Sadaam, Asad and so on, which is just lazy and disingenuous .
I get the German component of this, its a more complex issue, because a lot of the Turkish German Diaspora were those of a more religious streak that was forced out due to persecution after Ataturk's reforms. Even stuff like wearing a Fez was once upon a time banned in Turkey let alone religious garments. Those people don't forget and to them, Erdogan is a hero. Özil belongs to one of those families. Equally, Erdogan is reviled by another segment of Turkish society, one that we here in the West can relate to more. Whether Özil himself cares about the issues we don't know, but I don't think he is an idiot plus has been around Erodgan in years gone past.
It isn't like he met Kim Jong Un or Bashir Al Asad though, perspective is needed and this reaction has already gone over the top.
I pretty much see how Germans' view on this matter as Erdogan regardless of his political view Erdogan is not their president, Gundogan is obviously more guilty in this, and this event makes them can be seen as less of a good citizen.
Will be all over the papers tomorrow. This thing is big in Germany.
with all the nationalists out of the woodwork it's especially things like these that get twisted/described as "germans of foreign descent reaping the benefits of the german passport but honoring/loving their family's home country more"
It looks bad but Özil probably would take a picture with Gulen too if he asked, doubt it's a political endorsement.
I completely understand, I know Özil has some social responsibility due to his background and instances like this are red meat for the likes of the AfD.While it may have looked like I'm massively enraged about the event, I actually just think it's somewhat stupid and indecent.
I mostly tried to show the non-german forum members how big of an issue this is over here, for various reasons and on various levels, stretching across from DFB and german football and their integrative work, to international relations, to socio-political tensions regarding migration and religion, to current nationalist tendencies, to the current state of media. I mean, one of Arsenal's best players and top earner is involved in something that's turning into a public scandal of political and social scope, that could (but probabaly won't) affect his chances of playing at the World Cup in Russia. Thought that might be interesting.
. And with all the nationalists out of the woodwork it's especially things like these that get twisted/described as "germans of foreign descent reaping the benefits of the german passport but honoring/loving their family's home country more" - and used by nationalists to stir the pot. It's big. Wouldn't surprise me if the AFD, the nationalist party, comments on it for some publicity.
Especially Gundogan has come under fire, as he actually signed his shirt and wrote onto it: "With great respect to my president". The scandal for germans: He's not his president, as Gundogan is a german citizen, not a turkish one.
I get it though, I probably feel just as connected if not more to my parents home country than the one I was born and raised in.
If I'm talking about my parents home country I'd use "my, our, we" etc too, just as I would about the country I was born in.