PL: Arsenal v Manchester City | August 12th, 2018 16:00 BST | Sky Sports

[celestis]

Tbf our team is overrated.
Wenger has left our squad in a mess. By the end of the season we didn't have any foundation to build on: our GK situation was bad, our defense was a disgrace, our midfield hasnn't worked well for years and our attack is totally unbalanced. We have 2 top strikers. 2 top CAM. 0 winger.
Yes there is talent and some big names in the squad. But nothing was working when Wenger left.

And on top of that Emery and Mislintat only had £70M to close the gap when even Fulham spends more than that.

Emery has to build a functioning team from scratch.

Out of the top 6 we're far from having the most talented team but I think we have the most unbalanced one by far.
Emery has yet to find a functioning midfield when all the competition already has one and he has yet to find a functioning defense.

People complaining about Leno not starting just don't get how you manage a group. Especially when you're the new manager.
You can't just bin your most experienced player in the team who has a huge influence in the dressing room like that. Especially when he had a decent pre season.

As Gary Neville said you can't change 20 years of culture and mentality in 1 month and half.
You can't fix 5 years of total mismanagement in a single summer.

I honestly disagree , yes the last season was a disaster but as noted only City bettered our home form and only six months before that we had a stellar away record as well . Same players . Also the fact that Sven has brought in players in the older age profile Auba , Mkhi and Sokratis suggests he feels we don't need to start from scratch either .

 

[vijay]

if we do badly, its because of the Wenger legacy effect
if we do well, its because of the new manager effect

 

[Ceballinhos]

I honestly disagree , yes the last season was a disaster but as noted only City bettered our home form and only six months before that we had a stellar away record as well . Same players . Also the fact that Sven has brought in players in the older age profile Auba , Mkhi and Sokratis suggests he feels we don't need to start from scratch either .

The only area where we can really compete with the rest of the top 6 is our offensive force.
But even then I think the lack of proper winger is a serious issue.

I think we have the worst CB selection out of the top 6. By far. Even though Mustafi/Sokratis has been solid during the first game, I still have no trust in Mustafi Our bench is really poor.
Same goes for our fullback situation. Bellerin is by far the weakest RB in the top 6. Nacho is a solid one but he's one year older. I just hope Lich is going to be good.

And our midfield situation is a weird one. I think we have the weakest one, on paper, out of the top 6.
I don't rate Ramsey as a CM. Xhaka has never been consistent in an arsenal shirt. Guendouzi lacks experience. Elneny is a squad player.
Torreira is an exciting signing and I can't wait to see what he's worth.

But I'd take City's CM selection, Man Utd, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea have Kanté who is the best CM in the league IMO and they've added 2 very good CM.

Emery has to build everything from scratch.
It is that bad.

 

[bingobob]

It’s irrelevant how rich the club is. It’s what you spend on the team that counts. Been saying that for so long on here my keyboard’s worn out.

So Sp**s to get relegated? Liverpool, Chelsea Fulham and West Ham top four?

 

[celestis]

Beyond his talent, he is ballsy and assertive. We have too many "experienced" players who duck responsibility and hide or give the ball to the goalkeeper when we're suffering.

I'm okay with someone like him making a mistake or two.

Yeah you guys were spot on , suprised me with his mentality , passed superbly at times and kept on growing into the game especially 2nd half.

 

[celestis]

The only area where we can really compete with the rest of the top 6 is our offensive force.
But even then I think the lack of proper winger is a serious issue.

I think we have the worst CB selection out of the top 6. By far. Even though Mustafi/Sokratis has been solid during the first game, I still have no trust in Mustafi Our bench is really poor.
Same goes for our fullback situation. Bellerin is by far the weakest RB in the top 6. Nacho is a solid one but he's one year older. I just hope Lich is going to be good.

And our midfield situation is a weird one. I think we have the weakest one, on paper, out of the top 6.
I don't rate Ramsey as a CM. Xhaka has never been consistent in an arsenal shirt. Guendouzi lacks experience. Elneny is a squad player.
Torreira is an exciting signing and I can't wait to see what he's worth.

But I'd take City's CM selection, Man Utd, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea have Kanté who is the best CM in the league IMO and they've added 2 very good CM.

Emery has to build everything from scratch.
It is that bad.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Makingtrax]

So Sp**s to get relegated? Liverpool, Chelsea Fulham and West Ham top four?

West Ham and Fulham haven’t spent anywhere near what Chelsea have spent building up their squad over the past few years. Sp**s squad is the 6th most expensive last year, why would they get relegated?

Anyway, not having this conversation until the CIES publish the squad cost figures in September, then we’ll see where we stand.

 

[bingobob]

West Ham and Fulham haven’t spent anywhere near what Chelsea have spent building up their squad over the past few years. Sp**s squad is the 6th most expensive last year, why would they get relegated?

Anyway, not having this conversation until the CIES publish the squad cost figures in September, then we’ll see where we stand.

They've spent the third and fourth highest this season and Sp**s spent 0.

Cies can publish their figures. Won't change that fact that football is much more than cold calculated number crunching.

 

[Makingtrax]

They've spent the third and fourth highest this season and Sp**s spent 0.

Cies can publish their figures. Won't change that fact that football is much more than cold calculated number crunching.

It takes years to build a squad. It’s not about one season. And you’re still denying the truth. Today football’s more about money than any other variable.

This conversation is old bro. Just accept it. If you want Emery to perform above his squad cost like a Poch, he needs time to lick this lot into shape and change more personnel to his needs.

 

[Ceballinhos]

West Ham and Fulham haven’t spent anywhere near what Chelsea have spent building up their squad over the past few years. Sp**s squad is the 6th most expensive last year, why would they get relegated?

Anyway, not having this conversation until the CIES publish the squad cost figures in September, then we’ll see where we stand.

It would be interesting to analyze those numbers with the incomes of the clubs.

I'm pretty sure we're number 1 in under investing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

 

[Mo Britain]

Barca were trophyless for 6 seasons until 2004/5 when they won back to back league titles and the CL for only the 2nd time in their history under Rijkaard.

Ofcourse Guardiola made some adjustments when their performances dropped but he was allowed to and nobody can tell me that he didn't walk into a side that wasn't now mentally equipped to dominate.

He made a huge mistake getting rid of Eto'o for Ibra but it didn't matter because the rest of his team was maturing at the right time. Keita, Villa, Pique and Alves I'll give him credit for but there was also Chygrinski, Adriano, Hleb, etc. Yaya could've easily stayed alongside Busquets.

I'm not discrediting Pep's overall quality, just stating that he has been afforded a luxury that most managers don't have which the starting point at a club backed with disproportionate resources and a conversation about where he ranks in the list of greatest ever managers must take that into consideration.

Unless he gets Alloa Athletic promoted I'll always believe it's just loadsamoney. Fancy Dan.

 

[Makingtrax]

It would be interesting to analyze those numbers with the incomes of the clubs.

I'm pretty sure we're number 1 in under investing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

Now you’re talking!

 

[Mo Britain]

It would be interesting to analyze those numbers with the incomes of the clubs.

I'm pretty sure we're number 1 in under investing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

So Deloitte shows us our revenue was only £40 million less than Citeh. and yet you look at the players on the pitch, and on the bench, and we have one or two players who might just about squeeze into their squad (in terms of cost).

Where does all our money go to then? Or do Citeh spend money which is not included as revenue?

 

[Makingtrax]

Barca were trophyless for 6 seasons until 2004/5 when they won back to back league titles and the CL for only the 2nd time in their history under Rijkaard.

Ofcourse Guardiola made some adjustments when their performances dropped but he was allowed to and nobody can tell me that he didn't walk into a side that wasn't now mentally equipped to dominate.

He made a huge mistake getting rid of Eto'o for Ibra but it didn't matter because the rest of his team was maturing at the right time. Keita, Villa, Pique and Alves I'll give him credit for but there was also Chygrinski, Adriano, Hleb, etc. Yaya could've easily stayed alongside Busquets.

I'm not discrediting Pep's overall quality, just stating that he has been afforded a luxury that most managers don't have which the starting point at a club backed with disproportionate resources and a conversation about where he ranks in the list of greatest ever managers must take that into consideration.

A combination of a top manager and unlimited resources is almost unstoppable.

 

[Makingtrax]

So Deloitte shows us our revenue was only £40 million less than Citeh. and yet you look at the players on the pitch, and on the bench, and we have one or two players who might just about squeeze into their squad (in terms of cost).

Where does all our money go to then? Or do Citeh spend money which is not included as revenue?

Yes, but our owner has never put his hand in his pocket. Mansour has given City £1.3bn of his own money to build a squad, mostly converted into shares.

 

[Ceballinhos]

So Deloitte shows us our revenue was only £40 million less than Citeh. and yet you look at the players on the pitch, and on the bench, and we have one or two players who might just about squeeze into their squad (in terms of cost).

Where does all our money go to then? Or do Citeh spend money which is not included as revenue?

City has an owner who invest even cash into the club.

What's fascinating about them is that they've done a tremendous job to grow as a club in terms of incomes.
A bit like Chelsea today. Even without their owner putting cash into the club they're still among the most powerful club financially speaking.

And tbf, even in terms of incomes we're underachieving. We could have even more revenues if we were a competitive team.

 

[Makingtrax]

A bit like Chelsea today. Even without their owner putting cash into the club they're still among the most powerful club financially speaking.

But Stamford Holdings owe Abramvic £1.2bn which according to the FT can be ‘called in’ at 6 months notice. Would you want that over our heads?

 

[Ricardinho]

The sooner financial doping is put a stop to the better. City fans living in cloud cuckoo land if they think they'd be where they are without it.

 

[Ceballinhos]

But Stamford Holdings owe Abramvic £1.2bn which according to the FT can be ‘called in’ at 6 months notice. Would you want that over our heads?

I've read it was a 18 months notice according to the guardian.
Anyway, it's not that big of a deal for them the debt would probably be part of the purchase price paid by whoever comes in if their owner decides to leave.
Just like when Abramovich bought the club in 2003.

I absolutely don't want this over our heads though.

But clearly we've been under spending lately. We have bigger incomes than most clubs, including Liverpool.
We got more money from EL than Man Utd in CL.
http://www.cityam.com/285175/champions-league-and-europa-league-revenue-much-prize-money

And yet according to Ornstein we couldn't afford any player a few weeks ago before selling ?

 

[A_G]

What's fascinating about them is that they've done a tremendous job to grow as a club in terms of incomes.

Not really, when they signed a £400m deal with Etihad in 2011 the chairman of the company was Sheikh Mansour's half-brother.