William Saliba: Here to Stay ✍️

[kash2]

arteta judges players on their resume not on their actual ability. such a small man hanging on to the banister of convention like a coward with no results.
there is only to gain from playing saliba... certainly more than this declining accident Luiz.

also if anyone speaks publicly and doesnt call him a genius, they get sidelined

 

[Arsenal1508]

I noticed this with our players a lot.

This is why I dont want Tierney as Captain. He is a yes man and easily influenced.

also if anyone speaks publicly and doesnt call him a genius, they get sidelined

 

[amigo]

And then he goes over the top praising Willian. Then basically calling him a top player who's had a difficult season

Good managers back their players in public and leave the criticism for behind the scenes. You wouldn't expect him to say that he's rubbish..?

 

[dka1]

Good managers back their players in public and leave the criticism for behind the scenes. You wouldn't expect him to say that he's rubbish..?

Well done for strawmanning.....I swear it happens so much on AM.

His point wasn't that Willian was being praised so much (though that in itself is annoying, you can - not throw a player under the bus without sucking them off).

But rather that Saliba received lesser praise whilst performing well on loan in comparison to Willian who stunk the place out but received a lot of praise.

 

[grange]

The weirdos of AM are now angry that Arteta didn't praise Saliba in every interview while playing for another club in another league in another country? Jesus

 

[Tom349]

Instead of using every single stick we can use to bash Arteta can we actually focus on whether Saliba is actually ready to come back and cement his spot in the first 11? For all the talk of Saliba being a success on loan, personally I'm not so sure. Fans have been easily persuaded by his ability on the ball but his defending has left more question marks then answers.

He ranks unbelievably well in possession and passing (see below):


Defensively he however ranks incredibly poor. Which to be fair sometimes the best form of defending is doing very little but in bits and pieces I've seen of Saliba at Nice, I have some issues with the way he has defended. Constantly retreating and poor concentration when it comes to tracking the runs of his opponent. The below stats show he is hard to get past but also shows that he rarely challenges his opponent and the same applies in the air, which my concern here is the PL will expose that.





So the question is, is he good enough to cement a top spot in the back four and is he too raw currently, especially if you factor in Gabriel also being raw. Which if the answer to that is he isn't ready then at 20 years of age he would be better off going on loan again and getting the necessary experience much like he has done since his loan in January.

Personally if we want to improve to the level we need to get to then on the evidence I have seen this season from Saliba, then we need to find another option on the market ( I did feel differently 15 months ago). But if its a question of Holding or Saliba, then Saliba should be playing and developing with us, but it will come at cost I suspect.

 

[TromsoGooner]

Instead of using every single stick we can use to bash Arteta can we actually focus on whether Saliba is actually ready to come back and cement his spot in the first 11? For all the talk of Saliba being a success on loan, personally I'm not so sure. Fans have been easily persuaded by his ability on the ball but his defending has left more question marks then answers.

He ranks unbelievably well in possession and passing (see below):
View attachment 2980

Defensively he however ranks incredibly poor. Which to be fair sometimes the best form of defending is doing very little but in bits and pieces I've seen of Saliba at Nice, I have some issues with the way he has defended. Constantly retreating and poor concentration when it comes to tracking the runs of his opponent. The below stats show he is hard to get past but also shows that he rarely challenges his opponent and the same applies in the air, which my concern here is the PL will expose that.



View attachment 2981

So the question is, is he good enough to cement a top spot in the back four and is he too raw currently, especially if you factor in Gabriel also being raw. Which if the answer to that is he isn't ready then at 20 years of age he would be better off going on loan again and getting the necessary experience much like he has done since his loan in January.

Personally if we want to improve to the level we need to get to then on the evidence I have seen this season from Saliba, then we need to find another option on the market ( I did feel differently 15 months ago). But if its a question of Holding or Saliba, then Saliba should be playing and developing with us, but it will come at cost I suspect.

While I think Saliba is a big prospect you make some very good points. His reluctance to challenge in the air is both very noticeable and very strange. He certainly has the size and power to compete in the air and when he decides to do so he more often than not wins his duel.

He is obviously not the kind of defender who will throw himself into challenges, a very different player than the much mentioned Fofana for instance. Saliba has a much more measured and calm approach but I sometimes feel he`s too passive, as you say not following runners and hesitant to engage attackers or block shots. This stat about not being dribbled past once is very impressive and he is certainly very hard to get past but it`s also a result of him being very careful and selective when deciding to try and win the ball.

His ability on the ball is very impressive though, as is his physical qualities, so hopefully the other things will be improved in time.

 

[Rasmi]

Instead of using every single stick we can use to bash Arteta can we actually focus on whether Saliba is actually ready to come back and cement his spot in the first 11? For all the talk of Saliba being a success on loan, personally I'm not so sure. Fans have been easily persuaded by his ability on the ball but his defending has left more question marks then answers.

He ranks unbelievably well in possession and passing (see below):
View attachment 2980

Defensively he however ranks incredibly poor. Which to be fair sometimes the best form of defending is doing very little but in bits and pieces I've seen of Saliba at Nice, I have some issues with the way he has defended. Constantly retreating and poor concentration when it comes to tracking the runs of his opponent. The below stats show he is hard to get past but also shows that he rarely challenges his opponent and the same applies in the air, which my concern here is the PL will expose that.



View attachment 2981

So the question is, is he good enough to cement a top spot in the back four and is he too raw currently, especially if you factor in Gabriel also being raw. Which if the answer to that is he isn't ready then at 20 years of age he would be better off going on loan again and getting the necessary experience much like he has done since his loan in January.

Personally if we want to improve to the level we need to get to then on the evidence I have seen this season from Saliba, then we need to find another option on the market ( I did feel differently 15 months ago). But if its a question of Holding or Saliba, then Saliba should be playing and developing with us, but it will come at cost I suspect.

We scouted him and spent 30 million on a teenager. Either the club made seriously poor decision and someone had to pay with their job. Or we signed a huge prospect with little knowledge on how to nurture him and improve him. I believe we definitely mishandled him and the club better focus on signing ready made player. If we don’t sell him this summer or don’t use him this summer then we have spent 30 million on player who has made zero appearances in 3 years. That’s beyond terrible management. The club need to make a definite decision on him now

 

[14Henry]

Instead of using every single stick we can use to bash Arteta can we actually focus on whether Saliba is actually ready to come back and cement his spot in the first 11? For all the talk of Saliba being a success on loan, personally I'm not so sure. Fans have been easily persuaded by his ability on the ball but his defending has left more question marks then answers.

He ranks unbelievably well in possession and passing (see below):
View attachment 2980

Defensively he however ranks incredibly poor. Which to be fair sometimes the best form of defending is doing very little but in bits and pieces I've seen of Saliba at Nice, I have some issues with the way he has defended. Constantly retreating and poor concentration when it comes to tracking the runs of his opponent. The below stats show he is hard to get past but also shows that he rarely challenges his opponent and the same applies in the air, which my concern here is the PL will expose that.



View attachment 2981

So the question is, is he good enough to cement a top spot in the back four and is he too raw currently, especially if you factor in Gabriel also being raw. Which if the answer to that is he isn't ready then at 20 years of age he would be better off going on loan again and getting the necessary experience much like he has done since his loan in January.

Personally if we want to improve to the level we need to get to then on the evidence I have seen this season from Saliba, then we need to find another option on the market ( I did feel differently 15 months ago). But if its a question of Holding or Saliba, then Saliba should be playing and developing with us, but it will come at cost I suspect.

Well then we have to ask some serious questions of the club.

When you are Man City you can buy a few young players with one eye on the future.

However we are a club in freefall that needs reinforcements now. You cannot tell me that the club scouted Saliba and said lets pay 30m for a defender who may be ready in 4 years. That's ridiculous.

So either they believed he was ready after maybe a year on loan (which by your stats maybe he isn't ready) or they were signing a player for 5 years down the line. In both cases it screams poor.

Liverpool signed Joe Gomez for 3.5m with the aim that he may be ready in a couple of years. Arsenal signing 30m defenders and they dont know what to do with him. You'd swear that was another dodgy deal.

Just looks like one big waste of 30m. People will say we are only paying it back 6m a year or whatever but we could be doing that for a player who actually improves us and adds something to the team.

 

[Tom349]

We scouted him and spent 30 million on a teenager. Either the club made seriously poor decision and someone had to pay with their job. Or we signed a huge prospect with little knowledge on how to nurture him and improve him. I believe we definitely mishandled him and the club better focus on signing ready made player. If we don’t sell him this summer or don’t use him this summer then we have spent 30 million on player who has made zero appearances in 3 years. That’s beyond terrible management. The club need to make a definite decision on him now

I mean he was signed under Emery and Raul who are both no longer here. I don't think either of their dismissals had much to do with signing Saliba but can explain why things have played out, the way they have.

Personally have very little problem with the way he has been handled. The best thing for young players is to develop with game time, game time is much harder to come across as a young defender then it is as an attacking player. Arteta admitted last week they stuffed up by not being able to get him out on loan earlier for whatever reason but the idea to loan and give him added experience is a vastly better idea than having sit on the bench which was a likely result given how many CB's we had to begin the season. Rightly or wrongly Arteta decided early on that he needed the extra experience and I think a lot of issues that followed that were a result of trying to get out spoken members of the team from burning down the house and Saliba being the young kid it was easier to allow him to get game time then drop more senior members who would kick up a fuss.

It doesn't look great but if the deal is structured so that is a yearly instalment it really isn't that bad from a financial sense. While secondly if we were to sign this summer and loan him I don't think anyone would have any issues and could see the logic behind it as he has plenty of talent while still lacking experience. I mean he is 20 years old. We have the likes of Ballard who turns 22 this year, who we still consider a prospect whilst only getting minutes in the league 1 this season. So Saliba who turns 21 next year still has plenty of time up his sleeve.

 

[14Henry]

I mean he was signed under Emery and Raul who are both no longer here. I don't think either of their dismissals had much to do with signing Saliba but can explain why things have played out, the way they have.

Personally have very little problem with the way he has been handled. The best thing for young players is to develop with game time, game time is much harder to come across as a young defender then it is as an attacking player. Arteta admitted last week they stuffed up by not being able to get him out on loan earlier for whatever reason but the idea to loan and give him added experience is a vastly better idea than having sit on the bench which was a likely result given how many CB's we had to begin the season. Rightly or wrongly Arteta decided early on that he needed the extra experience and I think a lot of issues that followed that were a result of trying to get out spoken members of the team from burning down the house and Saliba being the young kid it was easier to allow him to get game time then drop more senior members who would kick up a fuss.

It doesn't look great but if the deal is structured so that is a yearly instalment it really isn't that bad from a financial sense. While secondly if we were to sign this summer and loan him I don't think anyone would have any issues and could see the logic behind it as he has plenty of talent while still lacking experience. I mean he is 20 years old. We have the likes of Ballard who turns 22 this year, who we still consider a prospect whilst only getting minutes in the league 1 this season. So Saliba who turns 21 next year still has plenty of time up his sleeve.

When you desperately are struggling you do not pay 30m for a player who won't be ready for you for 3 or 4 years.

It doesn't matter how the deal is structured. It's not likely this deal is the only one done in installments.

We paid 30m for a player who for 2 years hasn't contributed to the team. It very much looks like he won't figure next year either for us. How many teams in 5th/6th/7th/8th spend 30m on a player and loan him out for 3 years?

It's bad scouting and bad business. There's no 2 ways about it.

 

[Wounded Healer]

Instead of using every single stick we can use to bash Arteta can we actually focus on whether Saliba is actually ready to come back and cement his spot in the first 11? For all the talk of Saliba being a success on loan, personally I'm not so sure. Fans have been easily persuaded by his ability on the ball but his defending has left more question marks then answers.

He ranks unbelievably well in possession and passing (see below):
View attachment 2980

Defensively he however ranks incredibly poor. Which to be fair sometimes the best form of defending is doing very little but in bits and pieces I've seen of Saliba at Nice, I have some issues with the way he has defended. Constantly retreating and poor concentration when it comes to tracking the runs of his opponent. The below stats show he is hard to get past but also shows that he rarely challenges his opponent and the same applies in the air, which my concern here is the PL will expose that.



View attachment 2981

So the question is, is he good enough to cement a top spot in the back four and is he too raw currently, especially if you factor in Gabriel also being raw. Which if the answer to that is he isn't ready then at 20 years of age he would be better off going on loan again and getting the necessary experience much like he has done since his loan in January.

Personally if we want to improve to the level we need to get to then on the evidence I have seen this season from Saliba, then we need to find another option on the market ( I did feel differently 15 months ago). But if its a question of Holding or Saliba, then Saliba should be playing and developing with us, but it will come at cost I suspect.

tell that to fofana... saliba was the bigger talent at the time yet we couldnt even register him to easy europa league games. i remain with the stick man... all the rest is BS.

 

[Tom349]

When you desperately are struggling you do not pay 30m for a player who won't be ready for you for 3 or 4 years.

It doesn't matter how the deal is structured. It's not likely this deal is the only one done in installments.

We paid 30m for a player who for 2 years hasn't contributed to the team. It very much looks like he won't figure next year either for us. How many teams in 5th/6th/7th/8th spend 30m on a player and loan him out for 3 years?

It's bad scouting and bad business. There's no 2 ways about it.

We are likely paying 5m a season which is nothing compared to what we spend on other players and their wages. This is a horrible argument to use, signing him isn't affecting our ability to spend on other players.

If by the time Saliba is 21 and is ready to hold down a spot in our first 11 then that alone is far ahead of what most centre backs are at at the same age. He is a long term investment and 20 years old FFS, the sky isn't falling because he hasn't featured for us yet.

 

[14Henry]

We are likely paying 5m a season which is nothing compared to what we spend on other players and their wages. This is a horrible argument to use, signing him isn't affecting our ability to spend on other players.

If by the time Saliba is 21 and is ready to hold down a spot in our first 11 then that alone is far ahead of what most centre backs are at at the same age. He is a long term investment and 20 years old FFS, the sky isn't falling because he hasn't featured for us yet.

It doesn't matter how we pay Saliba. If it is 5m a year or not. As I said is Saliba the only deal in the world that is paid in installments? Please do answer.

So if we are paying 5m a year for a player who isn't helping the team NOW and hasn't been for 2 years and doesn't look like he will for another year we have paid 15m (3 years x 5 plus then wages) for a player who hasn't helped the team. A team absolutely on its knees.

Could we not have identified a player who was ready to improve the team when signed and paid their club 5-6m a year over 4 or 5 years?

If you are not making use of something you are paying for what is the point? Because he may be good in 3-4 years? When he's ****ed off and only has a year left on his contract and we end up selling him for 7-8m.

Do you think Saliba is renewing his contract with us the way we have treated him?

His value has also dropped. If he was sold tomorrow wouldnet get anywhere near 30m for him.

But sure thats OK. 22m loss is fine cause we paid it over 5-6 years.

 

[Tom349]

It doesn't matter how we pay Saliba. If it is 5m a year or not. As I said is Saliba the only deal in the world that is paid in installments? Please do answer.

So if we are paying 5m a year for a player who isn't helping the team NOW and hasn't been for 2 years and doesn't look like he will for another year we have paid 15m (3 years x 5 plus then wages) for a player who hasn't helped the team. A team absolutely on its knees.

Could we not have identified a player who was ready to improve the team when signed and paid their club 5-6m a year over 4 or 5 years?

If you are not making use of something you are paying for what is the point? Because he may be good in 3-4 years? When he's ****ed off and only has a year left on his contract and we end up selling him for 7-8m.

Do you think Saliba is renewing his contract with us the way we have treated him?

His value has also dropped. If he was sold tomorrow wouldnet get anywhere near 30m for him.

But sure thats OK. 22m loss is fine cause we paid it over 5-6 years.

Of course not, but its 5m not 20m like you would pay other players which is where you expect a far greater return. For reference if Saliba went on loan again, it would be equivalent of paying the first instalment of a transfer fee. Hardly debilitating our financials.

When you loan players out, you don't pay their wages. Again dumb argument. On our knee's, ****ing spare me.

So now he is only worth 8-10m. My word you are dramatic. I'm more than happy to have argue different points with you but when you come with complete rubbish like this, there really isn't much point.

If we said to Saliba we are going offer you an extra 30k a week if you sign for an extra year or two, do you think he would say no.

Again dumb argument. If we end up selling Saliba for only 8-10m it would be was never any good and was a dud signing, so his treatment now would be incredibly irrelevant and if anything would mean half the fan base would need to apologise to Arteta. But if he is as good as this fan base believes he is then even with a year left on his contract, we will be making a profit on his sale.

 

[Sebastes]

I'm not at all saying anything so far has been done right with regards to Saliba, he's been treated like **** and heads should roll for it. However, one thing that I feel speaks against Saliba is the lack of leadership in a defence of Leno, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney + a new rb who'd probably be 20-24, if we look at the names being dropped on here.

Leno isn't a commanding keeper in the box and I can't say I've felt he's one to be very vocal either. Tierney, while having the potential given his style of playing with his heart on his sleeve, seems a bit quiet. Gabriel I think will be a really good defender for us but he won't be the leader in that backline for a couple of years. Among the RB's that I'd look at, none of Hakimi, Aarons, Zeki Celik, Mazraoui, Emerson or Baku are leaders imo. So in essence it comes down to that RCB spot. Holding, while having deficiencies, is a pretty stable cb and he's at least somewhat of a leader. His was the first voice I learned to recognize this year, even if he wasn't playing that much in the beginning.

Feel we kind of shat the bed with not using this season and David Luiz to integrate both of Saliba and Gabriel and it's also the main reason why I think it would've been good for us if he stayed for another year. Now I'm torn between keeping Holding as main man and giving Saliba lots of minutes, or getting rid of Holding for an older CB who could come in and mentor both of Saliba and Gabriel. Keeping Holding would be good for the continuity of the team but we'll need more options for the seasons beyond this when we're back in Europe (hopefully the CL) and I don't think anyone feels that Holding nor Mari is the solution.

 

[14Henry]

Of course not, but its 5m not 20m like you would pay other players which is where you expect a far greater return. For reference if Saliba went on loan again, it would be equivalent of paying the first instalment of a transfer fee. Hardly debilitating our financials.

When you loan players out, you don't pay their wages. Again dumb argument. On our knee's, ****ing spare me.

So now he is only worth 8-10m. My word you are dramatic. I'm more than happy to have argue different points with you but when you come with complete rubbish like this, there really isn't much point.

If we said to Saliba we are going offer you an extra 30k a week if you sign for an extra year or two, do you think he would say no.

Again dumb argument. If we end up selling Saliba for only 8-10m it would be was never any good and was a dud signing, so his treatment now would be incredibly irrelevant and if anything would mean half the fan base would need to apologise to Arteta. But if he is as good as this fan base believes he is then even with a year left on his contract, we will be making a profit on his sale.

You clearly didn't read my post. I said when he has maybe 1 year left on his contract he would probably end up being worth 8-10m. So I'm not being dramatic. It is completely logical that a player who cost 30m who was sent on loan for about 3-4 years and who is deemed not good enough for Arsenal with 1 year on his contact could well be worth what I said.

Whatever way you look at it we are directly money somewhere we're it could be better spent. That is my opinion.

If you loan a player you don't pay his wages or any of them? So we aren't paying anything for Kolasinac? No? Schalke are paying him 100k a week. Good to know.

 

[Wounded Healer]

I'm not at all saying anything so far has been done right with regards to Saliba, he's been treated like **** and heads should roll for it. However, one thing that I feel speaks against Saliba is the lack of leadership in a defence of Leno, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney + a new rb who'd probably be 20-24, if we look at the names being dropped on here.

Leno isn't a commanding keeper in the box and I can't say I've felt he's one to be very vocal either. Tierney, while having the potential given his style of playing with his heart on his sleeve, seems a bit quiet. Gabriel I think will be a really good defender for us but he won't be the leader in that backline for a couple of years. Among the RB's that I'd look at, none of Hakimi, Aarons, Zeki Celik, Mazraoui, Emerson or Baku are leaders imo. So in essence it comes down to that RCB spot. Holding, while having deficiencies, is a pretty stable cb and he's at least somewhat of a leader. His was the first voice I learned to recognize this year, even if he wasn't playing that much in the beginning.

Feel we kind of shat the bed with not using this season and David Luiz to integrate both of Saliba and Gabriel and it's also the main reason why I think it would've been good for us if he stayed for another year. Now I'm torn between keeping Holding as main man and giving Saliba lots of minutes, or getting rid of Holding for an older CB who could come in and mentor both of Saliba and Gabriel. Keeping Holding would be good for the continuity of the team but we'll need more options for the seasons beyond this when we're back in Europe (hopefully the CL) and I don't think anyone feels that Holding nor Mari is the solution.

i feel gabriel has shown good potential for leadership

 

[Rasmi]

We are likely paying 5m a season which is nothing compared to what we spend on other players and their wages. This is a horrible argument to use, signing him isn't affecting our ability to spend on other players.

If by the time Saliba is 21 and is ready to hold down a spot in our first 11 then that alone is far ahead of what most centre backs are at at the same age. He is a long term investment and 20 years old FFS, the sky isn't falling because he hasn't featured for us yet.

its absoluetly not 5 million a year. you really think a club accept 6 year payment plan for a 30 million player look. You can twist it howveer you want. It was a really bad transfer and one that was never a priority. The club was desperately looking for a CB that summer and I remember the argument by the fans was instead of signing an ok player we are signing an elite talent, so its worth waiting a year. We were crying out for aCB and we signed Luiz on free with him being stop gap and we had to be patient cause we got this amazing talent. you know how we know the club fvcked up? If the club could go back in time you think they would spend 30 million on him?

 

[Sebastes]

i feel gabriel has shown good potential for leadership

Yeah I agree, but as I wrote I don't think he'd be be the defensive leader for a couple years at least. People here are vastly underestimating the importance of experience and leadership in defence (imho)