Laurent Koscielny

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

No, he really hasn't. The likes of Fabregas, Hleb, Flamini and Nasri achieved far less here and did far worse (Refusing to attend the final game of the season, eating ice cream with Milan reps the night before a big CL game) and are still spoken of fondly on here.

Sure, we plucked him from obscurity but we also plucked Yaya Sanogo, Park Chu Young, Inamoto, Andre Santos, Denilson and a whole host of others out of obscurity. Where are they now? We gave Kos the platform and he took full advantage by putting in stellar performances season after season. We didn't make him a French International, that was 50/50. If Kos wasn't a good player, he never would have made the French National Team.

Wouldn't you be bitter if you were in his shoes? I'm sure Benzema, Rabiot and everyone else who missed out are also bitter. I can guarantee you a part of Gerrard and Carragher will be slightly bitter when Liverpool win the premier league because they couldn't do it in their playing days. It's human nature, these guys aren't robots.

I think the nine years of service, his age and three FA Cups gives him a bit of leeway. I'm all for the club making a stand and putting their foot down, but you can't just do things on paper without looking at the circumstances. Arsenal is a business, but it's compromised of people and what do we lose by acquiescing to Kos's demands?

He isn't asking to go to Man United because of the little boy inside him. He isn't going on strike to secure a move to Barcelona only to play for Chelsea a few years later while pretending to love the club. Nor is he running down his deal to leave for AC Milan on a free. He isn't hitching up his skirts and demanding a move to Chelsea after saying he would welcome competition. He's not 24-26 years old making Beyonce analogies or engineering a move to Man City

He's 33 years old and wants to go to a smaller club in Ligue 1 because his body can't take it or whatever his reasons are. We lose out on a few million quid. So what?

This isn’t me sticking up for Cesc, Nasri and especially the Judas- but they aren’t the measuring stick of what a model pro is. If we’re comparing Kos to them then already we’re in trouble.

I think Kos has been our most consistent defender for the last 10 years, but as captain of this club the way he’s gone about leaving is an abomination.

Fair enough, he wants out, I get that. But refusing to train, refusing to attend a ****ing pre season tour? That’s ridiculous. Nasri actually played for us a day or two before leaving for City, he was always gonna get his move.

I highly doubt the club is standing in his way. But he needs to respect the fact he’s under contract here and we sanction the sale- not him. Other than Cesc, who have you mentioned that acted in such a manner? The common theme is none are remembered too fondly here, Kos would’ve been- but because of this little manoeuvre he’s ****ed it.

 

[squallman]

This isn’t me sticking up for Cesc, Nasri and especially the Judas- but they aren’t the measuring stick of what a model pro is. If we’re comparing Kos to them then already we’re in trouble.

I think Kos has been our most consistent defender for the last 10 years, but as captain of this club the way he’s gone about leaving is an abomination.

Fair enough, he wants out, I get that. But refusing to train, refusing to attend a ****ing pre season tour? That’s ridiculous. Nasri actually played for us a day or two before leaving for City, he was always gonna get his move.

I highly doubt the club is standing in his way. But he needs to respect the fact he’s under contract here and we sanction the sale- not him. Other than Cesc, who have you mentioned that acted in such a manner? The common theme is none are remembered too fondly here, Kos would’ve been- but because of this little manoeuvre he’s ****ed it.

They aren't? I'll give you Nasri, but Cesc routinely gets his ass licked by the fan base while any mention of Hleb is full of what could have beens and how great the 2007-08 midfield was.

Cesc was Arsenal captain, engineered a move to Chelsea before Arsenal even knew he was leaving Barcelona then tried to make it out like Wenger never wanted him. "He landed where he wanted to go"- Wenger and Mourinho's comments about how it was only Chelsea for Cesc. It's not like he would have been short of suitors either. Cesc cared about Wenger first, himself second and Arsenal not at all. But he's still loved for "carrying the team" despite leaving in his prime whereas Koscielny who helped to carry an awful Arsenal defence and stayed during HIS prime is being lambasted from pillar to post.

Judas? Everyone hates him but some still use him to dunk on the club by saying how right he was to leave, which is far more respect than he deserves.


I don't agree with what he's done, far from it. I'm just disappointed that it's reached this level. But none of this takes away from the years of service he's given the club IMO. What he's done doesn't even compare to the stunts that others have pulled, in their primes no less.

If Kos was 27/28 and doing this to get a move to Bayern, I would be right there with you mate. But he isn't, so I'm not.

 

[carlito'sway]

They aren't? I'll give you Nasri, but Cesc routinely gets his ass licked by the fan base while any mention of Hleb is full of what could have beens and how great the 2007-08 midfield was.

Cesc was Arsenal captain, engineered a move to Chelsea before Arsenal even knew he was leaving Barcelona then tried to make it out like Wenger never wanted him. "He landed where he wanted to go"- Wenger and Mourinho's comments about how it was only Chelsea for Cesc. It's not like he would have been short of suitors either. Cesc cared about Wenger first, himself second and Arsenal not at all. But he's still loved for "carrying the team" despite leaving in his prime whereas Koscielny who helped to carry an awful Arsenal defence and stayed during HIS prime is being lambasted from pillar to post.

Judas? Everyone hates him but some still use him to dunk on the club by saying how right he was to leave, which is far more respect than he deserves.
I don't agree with what he's done, far from it. I'm just disappointed that it's reached this level. But none of this takes away from the years of service he's given the club IMO. What he's done doesn't even compare to the stunts that others have pulled, in their primes no less.

If Kos was 27/28 and doing this to get a move to Bayern, I would be right there with you mate. But he isn't, so I'm not.

Top posts mate. By the way, talking about Bayern, Kos had a chance to join the German club. They chased him for a while but he stayed at Arsenal.
All the names you mentioned above and some others like TH14 pulled all the strings to jump ship as well and most of them are still highly revered by the fan base.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

They aren't? I'll give you Nasri, but Cesc routinely gets his ass licked by the fan base while any mention of Hleb is full of what could have beens and how great the 2007-08 midfield was.

Cesc was Arsenal captain, engineered a move to Chelsea before Arsenal even knew he was leaving Barcelona then tried to make it out like Wenger never wanted him. "He landed where he wanted to go"- Wenger and Mourinho's comments about how it was only Chelsea for Cesc. It's not like he would have been short of suitors either. Cesc cared about Wenger first, himself second and Arsenal not at all. But he's still loved for "carrying the team" despite leaving in his prime whereas Koscielny who helped to carry an awful Arsenal defence and stayed during HIS prime is being lambasted from pillar to post.

Judas? Everyone hates him but some still use him to dunk on the club by saying how right he was to leave, which is far more respect than he deserves.


I don't agree with what he's done, far from it. I'm just disappointed that it's reached this level. But none of this takes away from the years of service he's given the club IMO. What he's done doesn't even compare to the stunts that others have pulled, in their primes no less.

If Kos was 27/28 and doing this to get a move to Bayern, I would be right there with you mate. But he isn't, so I'm not.

I can appreciate your view and FairPlay for getting your opinion across. But I respectfully have to disagree with your stance on Kos.

I agree with pretty much everything you said bar the core Koscielny bit . He can want to leave, of course, he has no divine right to remain here. But there’s a way to do things, my point is he should be a tier above the Cesc’s, Judas’ etc, but now he’s been roped into the same conversation as them.

 

[squallman]

I can appreciate your view and FairPlay for getting your opinion across. But I respectfully have to disagree with your stance on Kos.

I agree with pretty much everything you said bar the core Koscielny bit . He can want to leave, of course, he has no divine right to remain here. But there’s a way to do things, my point is he should be a tier above the Cesc’s, Judas’ etc, but now he’s been roped into the same conversation as them.

I agree, the fact that we're talking about him in the same light as those two traitors is heartbreaking.

You're right there is a way to do things and Kos took the "wrong" or RVJ approach. I'm not going to make excuses for him because even if stuff is going on behind the scenes, I believe that family business should stay in the family. Sure it's a multi billion dollar operation but part of the appeal of Arsenal is its classy roots and family ethos. I feel we've lost a bit of that recently. Yes we all want to win trophies but I don't think the club should lose it's soul along the way.

It just goes to show, footballers don't think about things the same way we do. If they love the club at all (and 99% of them don't, it's all just for social media and to help sell their brand/merchandise), they love it to a point.

We could give Xhaka the armband and he could wax lyrical but how he wants to be the new Vieira or follow in TA's footsteps but if come next summer his wife tells him she wants to raise a family in Milan. Xhaka would be on the phone quick as spit to his agent to try and arrange a move to Inter or AC Milan. It's just a job to them.

 

[A$AP Unai]

I can't really remember our last terrific buy tbh, maybe Santi Cazorla? Other than we've bought dross or players for more or around what they're worth, we just buy whoever is available rather than who we need, why buy Özil when we needed striker? Why buy Aubameyang when we needed wingers? How many times did we need a CB just to buy another AM? What excellent players do we have in our team now?

Until we start buying a higher quality of player in the positions we need we'll always be in this position. Liverpool bought guys like Mane and Salah for the same prices we payed for Mustafi and Xhaka. Lacazette cost more than them and around the same as Sterling but doesn't produce anywhere near as much.

We need to know what style of football we want, get that coach in and buy players for that type of style. It's what Liverpool, City and Sp**s do and they're much better off for it. We just buy whoever is available and affordable which left us with the sub par unbalanced team.

You can't remember? Is it Lacaztte's fault? Isn't that a sign? Lost? Want the 'Lobby' to come and help you?

 

[BigPoppaPump]

That’s a bleak view. I’ve been quite critical of our squad recently but not sure I’ve hit your low.

Auba equalled Mane and Salah and won a golden boot with AMN and Kolasinac crossing the ball, let that sink in.

I think I've become more and more jaded, especially during the off season. All it takes is some good form and I'll be back rating everyone, the end of the season just soured me to it all.

Doing just that...

Might as well give up on next season already, I always wanted to get into the NBA anyway. Go Clippers!

 

[Giroud12]

Loving the tough stance from the club on this one. The old regime would have let him go for free. We´ve paid him millions over the years and he signed a very lucrative contract. Let´s not pretend these guys are suffering. Definitely a new way of doing things with Raul in charge, no wonder given his Barca background.

 

[db10fan]

Dont know what really happened between Kos and current management, IMO he wont refuses to train or go on tour if there is not something done by the management that wrongs him, not saying that its right for him to do this though. However from purely team strength at CB, IMO its better to let him go at reasonable even cheap fee, then use Chambers/Mav/Bielik/Medley see if they can step up. We may lost a few mln with Kos cheap sale, but we will gain more from Chambers/Mav/Bielik increase in market value if we sell them after they play EPL, even more if either of them are succesful in EPL.

 

[Dokaka]

Don't really know what to think here tbh. No way to tell what actually happened. You could easily construct a scenario where him refusing to travel was justified, but that scenario would likely involve personal details that Kos likely wouldn't want to be made public. He can't really win here.

Only thing we do know is that Kos played an insane amount of minutes after returning from one of the most devastating injuries for professional athletes. Add to that his reportedly chronic tendonitis and it's easy to see why he'd be absolutely furious with the club in general if they ignored his requests for rest etc.

He turns 34 in a month or two, is on fairly high wages and has become somewhat injury prone. If he's actually willing to terminate his contract with zero compensation this transfer window, that seems like a reasonable compromise to me considering your financial situation and need for new players in the squad.

Obviously not an ideal situation, but he's hardly some random mercenary looking for a huge payday. Dude just wants to go home after spending almost a decade at the club. I can sympathize with that.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Don't really know what to think here tbh. No way to tell what actually happened. You could easily construct a scenario where him refusing to travel was justified, but that scenario would likely involve personal details that Kos likely wouldn't want to be made public. He can't really win here.

Only thing we do know is that Kos played an insane amount of minutes after returning from one of the most devastating injuries for professional athletes. Add to that his reportedly chronic tendonitis and it's easy to see why he'd be absolutely furious with the club in general if they ignored his requests for rest etc.

He turns 34 in a month or two, is on fairly high wages and has become somewhat injury prone. If he's actually willing to terminate his contract with zero compensation this transfer window, that seems like a reasonable compromise to me considering your financial situation and need for new players in the squad.

Obviously not an ideal situation, but he's hardly some random mercenary looking for a huge payday. Dude just wants to go home after spending almost a decade at the club. I can sympathize with that.

As someone who has lost all respect for Kos. Most of what you said makes actually sense to me. I can see his viewpoint, but to refuse to go on tour was a punch below the belt.

The part I didn't agree with is the last paragraph. To me it seems money is playing a big part in this. If he really wanted to just go home, why doesn't he buy out the last year of his contract? He would be a free agent then, no doubt getting a signing on fee, which would probably replace the money he spent to buy out his contract anyway.

By asking the club to terminate his contract, he is in effect asking the club to pay him to leave (we terminate his contract, he is free, gets signing on fee from buyer, which is basically the money they would have paid us as a transfer, so in an indirect way we paid for it).

The bolded bit, how is that a compromise? That only suits Kos. If we let him leave for free, we would still need to replace him, the wages we saved from him, would be taken by the new player. Atleast if we got a few million for him we could add that to a budget for a replacement. Kos might be old and injury prone, but it is better to have him as an option, then just releasing him without replacing him.

To me it seems Kos just wants best of both worlds. He wants to go now because he has been promised a (no doubt lucrative) three year contract, the chance to go back home, less physically demanding league, guess he wants the cherry on the cake and be a free agent so he can get a nice signing on fee too.

Anyway I can't be arsed wether he goes or stays now. He just completely destroyed his legacy.

 

[Dokaka]

As someone who has lost all respect for Kos. Most of what you said makes actually sense to me. I can see his viewpoint, but to refuse to go on tour was a punch below the belt.

The part I didn't agree with is the last paragraph. To me it seems money is playing a big part in this. If he really wanted to just go home, why doesn't he buy out the last year of his contract? He would be a free agent then, no doubt getting a signing on fee, which would probably replace the money he spent to buy out his contract anyway.

By asking the club to terminate his contract, he is in effect asking the club to pay him to leave (we terminate his contract, he is free, gets signing on fee from buyer, which is basically the money they would have paid us as a transfer, so in an indirect way we paid for it).

The bolded bit, how is that a compromise? That only suits Kos. If we let him leave for free, we would still need to replace him, the wages we saved from him, would be taken by the new player. Atleast if we got a few million for him we could add that to a budget for a replacement. Kos might be old and injury prone, but it is better to have him as an option, then just releasing him without replacing him.

The club could demand a percentage of his signing fee from when he penned the contract, sure. My guess would be that Kos would be happy to pay that, and has probably already offered to do so.

He is owed - by Arsenal - millions of pounds. A reasonable estimate would probably be around £5m that Arsenal currently have to pay him still, and that's not counting incentives etc. I realize money would have to be spent to replace him of course, but that will happen next summer anyway where he will just walk for free after you've paid him £5m+ to hang around.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't several reports stated that offers have come in for him, but they've been declined? Also read that Arsenal apparently want £10m for him, which also somewhat explains his anger. £10m for a 34-year-old injury prone defender on the last year of his contract is not realistic.

In the end, he won't really be a valuable option to keep around anyway. He'll be a toxic element in the squad, an unhappy demoted captain who publicly wants out. Also, he could just refuse to play outright.

The best case scenario here is Arsenal lowering their ridiculous asking price to something much lower and move on. It's a real shame it's going to end this way, because I absolutely adored him in his prime, thought he was legit world class.

 

[BaZZe]

Let Leah take his place in the team, she's a true gunner through and through! Maybe let her take the armband from him as well!

 

[BigPoppaPump]

whereas Koscielny who helped to carry an awful Arsenal defence and stayed during HIS prime is being lambasted from pillar to post.

Koscielny was a part of that awful defence, he didn't carry it. Actually Mertesacker carried the defence whilst Koscielny has let us down in multiple games with his mistakes and rash defending.

I don't get people saying he ruined his legacy too, his legacy was that semi final against Atletico when he kicked the ball right into Griezmann or this season vs Man Utd in the FA Cup when he gave Alexis all the space to run into. Koscielny has never been a great defender, it's why he's been a mainstay in multiple terrible back lines for Arsenal.

 

[<<reed>>]

I think we would have let him go if our CB situation wasn't that bad, but we are so short of quality CBs that even in his current state he might be a difference between finishing in Top 4 and Top 6. The club just put their own interest above his personal interest, that's all.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

The club could demand a percentage of his signing fee from when he penned the contract, sure. My guess would be that Kos would be happy to pay that, and has probably already offered to do so.

He is owed - by Arsenal - millions of pounds. A reasonable estimate would probably be around £5m that Arsenal currently have to pay him still, and that's not counting incentives etc. I realize money would have to be spent to replace him of course, but that will happen next summer anyway where he will just walk for free after you've paid him £5m+ to hang around.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't several reports stated that offers have come in for him, but they've been declined? Also read that Arsenal apparently want £10m for him, which also somewhat explains his anger. £10m for a 34-year-old injury prone defender on the last year of his contract is not realistic.

In the end, he won't really be a valuable option to keep around anyway. He'll be a toxic element in the squad, an unhappy demoted captain who publicly wants out. Also, he could just refuse to play outright.

The best case scenario here is Arsenal lowering their ridiculous asking price to something much lower and move on. It's a real shame it's going to end this way, because I absolutely adored him in his prime, thought he was legit world class.

I really doubt he would give a percentage of his signing on fee to us. It is one of the main incentives for him to request to leave in the first place. It has been confirmed that near the end of last season Kos and Arsenal were in negotiations over a contract extention. So in the space of a few weeks he suddenly realised he wanted to go back home? The most plausible explanation is that he started getting solid offers from a few french clubs, notably Bordeaux with a 3 year contract offer. Giving that he also felt that we overplayed him after he came back from injury, and suddenly the offer was too tempting.

All of that is understandable, this new challenge ticked a lot of boxes for him and his family, but please, the people that are trying to convince us he just wants to go home and it has nothing to do with money, are taking us for mugs.

Yes we have to pay him about £5m, but he is providing his service in return. You saw how tight the teams from 3rd-6th were. In theory Kos helping us gain 1 more point could help us reach the CL. Even finishing just 2 league places higher gets you almost 5m. Even if we only needed him for cover and he played 10 league games.

Don't know if we received any offers. A source at the club mentioned to Ornstein we didn't receive any bids. Other sources suggested there might have been one but nothing really concrete. Not sure what we demanded for him. You have to realise though we can demand what he is worth to us, not his market value. Seems other clubs do the same. Like I said we would have to still replace him, in this current market that would be very difficult without having much money.

Yes he will be a very toxic element. We can't just do what he wants, regardless if it ****ed up the club. If we just let him go, what is to stop Monreal for example to demand we cancel his wages if a team comes in for him. He is same age as Kos, has been here 6 years, loyal servant. You could even say he has been more consistent than Kos and less injury prone. Does he not deserve such respect? Does he not deserve to play out his last years back home? If not, why can Kos demand it.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Koscielny was a part of that awful defence, he didn't carry it. Actually Mertesacker carried the defence whilst Koscielny has let us down in multiple games with his mistakes and rash defending.

I don't get people saying he ruined his legacy too, his legacy was that semi final against Atletico when he kicked the ball right into Griezmann or this season vs Man Utd in the FA Cup when he gave Alexis all the space to run into. Koscielny has never been a great defender, it's why he's been a mainstay in multiple terrible back lines for Arsenal.

Don't know exactly what legacy means to others, but to me it means how I will remember him. Now the thing I will remember the most from his time at our club will be this stunt. Hence he ruined his legacy for me, not saying that it was brilliant before or I that I thought he was one of our better players. I thought he was a solid player for the most part, far from one of the league's best defender but decent. The last few years though, have been painfull, declined massively.

 

[YeahBee]

As someone who has lost all respect for Kos. Most of what you said makes actually sense to me. I can see his viewpoint, but to refuse to go on tour was a punch below the belt.

The part I didn't agree with is the last paragraph. To me it seems money is playing a big part in this. If he really wanted to just go home, why doesn't he buy out the last year of his contract? He would be a free agent then, no doubt getting a signing on fee, which would probably replace the money he spent to buy out his contract anyway.

By asking the club to terminate his contract, he is in effect asking the club to pay him to leave (we terminate his contract, he is free, gets signing on fee from buyer, which is basically the money they would have paid us as a transfer, so in an indirect way we paid for it).

The bolded bit, how is that a compromise? That only suits Kos. If we let him leave for free, we would still need to replace him, the wages we saved from him, would be taken by the new player. Atleast if we got a few million for him we could add that to a budget for a replacement. Kos might be old and injury prone, but it is better to have him as an option, then just releasing him without replacing him.

To me it seems Kos just wants best of both worlds. He wants to go now because he has been promised a (no doubt lucrative) three year contract, the chance to go back home, less physically demanding league, guess he wants the cherry on the cake and be a free agent so he can get a nice signing on fee too.

Anyway I can't be arsed wether he goes or stays now. He just completely destroyed his legacy.

It suits us to because we get his wages of the books, very High wages for a guy that is not a given starter week in week out anymore

And one less injury to worry about

Frankly even thou I love him we might need a more vocal guy and a CB with good to Great build up play

Nobody would buy him due to age and injuries and his wage demands
Ona free they might...

 

[YeahBee]

Don't know exactly what legacy means to others, but to me it means how I will remember him. Now the thing I will remember the most from his time at our club will be this stunt. Hence he ruined his legacy for me, not saying that it was brilliant before or I that I thought he was one of our better players. I thought he was a solid player for the most part, far from one of the league's best defender but decent. The last few years though, have been painfull, declined massively.

How do you know it is a stunt and not a slight from management?

We know Kos is a loyal warrior AND
We frekkin know management are clowns so draw your own conclusions and dont just have a kneejerk reaction

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

How do you know it is a stunt and not a slight from management?

We know Kos is a loyal warrior AND
We frekkin know management are clowns so draw your own conclusions and dont just have a kneejerk reaction

The stunt was referring to his refusal to go on tour.

If you have seen my comments on the transfer forum, you would have noticed I regularly criticise the club for the way it is run. It is frankly shambolic. I'm more talking about the way he behaved after he didn't get his way. Especially for a captain. He is acting like a spoilt child.

So it saves us money to get his wages of the books...yet you want him replaced with a vocal, ball playing CB..who will also be earning wages. How much will he cost in transfer fee? It isn't like we need a LB, another CB, CM and a Winger. It is precisely because we need to fill all of those positions it suits us better to keep Kos, rather than spend a lot more money just to replace him, which we don't have.

"Kos a loyal warrior". You must be joking. So it is loyal to stay when he was getting paid a fortune to ply his trade here. He probably never got a tempting offer to leave before, yet only using the fact he stayed here for 9 years we start calling him loyal.

Loyal would have been if his contract had finished, but he wanted to help the club and stay for a year instead of taking a singing on fee elsewhere. Going beyond the basic requirements. No one obviously would expect that from him, that wouldn't be fair, something like that could be declared real loyalty. Do people even know what loyalty means. He stayed because it was beneficial to him.

Disloyal would be still having a contract, but wanting to go because better opportunities have suddenly appeared on the horizon. What Kos is doing is the definition of being disloyal. So are almost all footballers, it's a job for them. Nothing wrong with that, just don't try to make it out like they are loyal.

Oh and it's my opinion. Don't give a **** if you think it is a kneejerk reaction.