"1 or 2 Signings...." Who would be the second?

[ibby]

This club doesn't produce winger. I have no idea why but it's something we seem incapable of doing. So in that regard, we really need to either promote Wilshere to add some depth to our wings or preferably, sign a winger. Ribery's available

Isn't Gibbs a winger? Or has he moved to left-back permanently?

 

[ricky1985]

Wilshere is a winger, so we've produced one.

 

[sabret00the]

Gibbs is a 'perfect fullback', as he was described in some article. I really don't wanna see him getting minutes on the wing just for the **** of it. We are at a stage where we need to start fielding specialists only.

 

[ibby]

Don't you see football developing into a more versatile game though? I mean United won the league 3 times in a row without a proper striker.

 

[progman07]

This club doesn't produce winger. I have no idea why but it's something we seem incapable of doing. So in that regard, we really need to either promote Wilshere to add some depth to our wings or preferably, sign a winger. Ribery's available

We have Rosicky. :wink:

I believe Wilshere would be the perfect winger, fast, tricky, good movement, and can cut in to play some quality passes, he can also shoot well.

Of course these are also the qualities of an AM, but we are full of AMs, and lack wingers, so why not actually keep Wilshere out wide forever - it it good for the balance of the team, as if Wilshere or any winger moves inside, it would mean that Diaby gets chances wide again...

 

[Anzac]

Hasn't AW described Jack The Lad's ultimate role as playing being the striker/s, as opposed to being on the flanks?

 

[sabret00the]

Don't you see football developing into a more versatile game though? I mean United won the league 3 times in a row without a proper striker.

No I don't. I think in some cases it's possible, but as has been proved by our lack of success in recent years. It's only some players and those are exceptional players. People like Eboue, Diaby and Traore just don't offer enough on the wings. Players like Toure are an abomination at full back. A versatile player who is effective in a position other than his native one is an exception to the rule other than the rule.

Even the role of the second striker/attacker in the hole is generally a pipe dream that's so dependent on the forces around it to work in a positive way that's it's too expensive. And defensively it has it's pluses, however, it's the formation of relegation fodder for the sheer fact that it's so defensively geared and stifling attack-wise, unless of course you're playing route-one.

 

[sabret00the]

Hasn't AW described Jack The Lad's ultimate role as playing being the striker/s, as opposed to being on the flanks?

Wenger thinks that everyone can play in the hole. He even believes that no-vision-visikiiri can play in the hole.

 

[ricky1985]

Don't you see football developing into a more versatile game though? I mean United won the league 3 times in a row without a proper striker.

An interesting article on modern tactics and formations. That touches on what you're saying Ibby.

When asked after the game against Belarus whether England were playing a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1, manager Fabio Capello bluntly dismissed such notions. “These figures are stupid,” he said. “In the modern game, the only formation is 9-1.”

Actually Fabio Capello isn’t rejecting the idea of formations completely; just arguing that there are greater subtleties beneath giving a title to the physical arrangement of players. Regarding his England side, one can see the 9-1 in action. When playing with a full strength side they have Heskey as the focal point ably supported by nine outfield players with the responsibility to defend and attack. Heskey’s contribution is crucial as he plays across the line, linking up play with his back to goal and creating space for others with his presence.

But not all teams play with one up front. Spain won Euro 2008 with Torres and Villa while Luciano Spalletti’s Roma side played with none (though recently they have moved to a diamond formation). However by concentrating on the striker it means one is ignoring the subtleties.

Croatia manager Slaven Bilic feels similarly about formations and can give a greater insight into what the England coach really means. “Systems are dying. Like 4-5-1, what does it mean? It’s only for journalists or at the beginning of each half. When defending, great teams want many behind the ball. When attacking, players from all sides. We have to be compact, narrow to each other.

“Italy won the 2006 World Cup with nothing like the [defensive] Italy you usually think of. They finished the semi-final against Germany with Del Piero, Gilardino, Iaquinta and Totti — four strikers. And two full-backs bombing up. It’s about the movement of 10 players now.”

Now it is much easier to understand. By playing one striker, a coach can accommodate a number of creators, allowing greater fluidity and flexibility. Spain played with a fluid system where Torres was the front runner while Villa played off him but around them were plenty of attacking midfielders and the full backs pushed forward too. Roma’s 4-6-0 uses Totti as the focal point though with great movement and use of space from midfielders he doesn’t need to play as high. One reason why Ronaldo scored so many goals last season as opposed to this, is because there was greater interchangeability across the line of attack, leaving no points of reference for defenders.

The role of the striker has evolved and they are now expected to do more; scoring goals need not be a centre-forward’s principal purpose. They must be able to use their intelligence to drop off into space and play in team mates while also being able to make runs to stretch opposition. An increased mobility and interchangeability in strikers has lessened the need for the traditional ‘goal-poachers’ while there are greater expectations on midfielders to contribute goalscoring-wise. “For me, a striker is not just a striker,” says Jose Mourinho. “He’s somebody who has to move, who has to cross, and who has to do this in a 4-4-2 or in a 4-3-3 or in a 3-5-2.”

Fabio Capello has tried to instill the same ideas in his England side. Gerrard plays as an unorthodox left midfielder and is detailed to come inside when attacking, Rooney is allowed to drift and the midfielders must be able to support. But the main point which is stressed is movement: “I think they know me now – my style, the movement around the pitch that I want. They know and it is better now.” Capello also talks of the importance of the whole collective’s responsibility in scoring goals.

“Only [Spain's Fernando] Torres is a big striker in this moment in the world. [As for] the others, Italy [are] so-so, Germany [are] so-so, Portugal [have nothing]. Also the French, you didn’t see anything. It’s a big problem now because the teams defend very well. It’s a problem everywhere. You have to play in a different style – the other players they have to score more goals.”

Even so, playing with great movement is a highly specialised skill and not easy to implment for many clubs. But if one succeeds the result can be explosive. Like the ‘Total Football’ sides of Holland in 1974 and Dynamo Kyiv to the more recent examples in Man United and Barcelona, such sides have shown this explosiveness. Arsenal’s youngsters displayed one of the best examples this season as they comprehensively beat a full-strength Wigan side in the Carling Cup with Jack Wilshere, Vela, Ramsey, Gibbs and Merida creating havoc. And with Jay Simpson leading the line it was a perfect example of the 9-1. One must not forget the importance of the central defenders also; their mobility and ability to initiate attacks as well as their defensive nous being the backbone of the side.

Modern football sees clubs looking to deny opponents any space. It is about controlling space and reducing space for opponents when attacking and defending. By playing a 9-1 where the whole team has the responsibility to attack and defend, Capello believes it is not about the individual’s effectiveness rather the effectiveness of the individuals within the system. If the players adapt it means they have created a system of flexibility and fluidity which becomes less predictable for opponents and therefore harder to disrupt. Not many teams can do it but when they do, it can be destructive.

<a class="postlink" href="http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/in-the-modern-game-the-only-formation-is-9-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2009 ... on-is-9-1/</a>

 

[ibby]

Interesting article.

 

[progman07]

There is still a formation, when the ball is out of play, or it's slow passing at the back, you can see the players keeping position. Without a structure, we'd look a complete mess.

Of course there is a different formation for defending and attacking, but it only means that the full-backs and the midfielders have both roles.

Interesting article, but it doesn't say much. Clearly, each player has different roles, the DM to win balls and close down the opponents, the strikers to score, but not very rigid, Toure can also score while RvP can also make clearances.

 

[ibby]

There is still a formation, when the ball is out of play, or it's slow passing at the back, you can see the players keeping position. Without a structure, we'd look a complete mess.

Of course there is a different formation for defending and attacking, but it only means that the full-backs and the midfielders have both roles.

Interesting article, but it doesn't say much. Clearly, each player has different roles, the DM to win balls and close down the opponents, the strikers to score, but not very rigid, Touré can also score while RvP can also make clearances.

Which is what the article is trying to say.

 

[Anzac]

Interesting article.

To say the least - and more so when our youngsters are more heralded for their movement & explosiveness than the seniors = a few of us have previously commented on the difference between the 2 sides & it's been dismissed as the kids being able to play without the weight of expectation.

Further to this it is also worth noting the reference to the effectiveness of the individuals within the system - in which case our seniors have yet to grasp the concept or the emphasis on possession is negating this.

 

[atmosphere]

I don't take anything Wenger says at face value, not because he's a liar but because he obviously has to keep his cards close to his chest. Selling clubs and rivals will be keeping a close watch on what he says, so a whole thread on what Wenger hinted he might do is a bit pointless.

Not really. Everything Wenger does or says is completely over analysed on here anyway, more often than not in a completely negative way by yourself, amongst others.

Wenger has said one or two signings, so you just disregard it. If he said no more signings, you'd take it as gospel and be *****ing about it in no time.

This thread was meant to be all hypothetical anyway, there's no harm in that all.

 

[sabret00the]

Thanks Ricky, totally ****-blocked my favourite conversation of the morning :cry:

 

[Webdesignlab]

I don't take anything Wenger says at face value, not because he's a liar but because he obviously has to keep his cards close to his chest. Selling clubs and rivals will be keeping a close watch on what he says, so a whole thread on what Wenger hinted he might do is a bit pointless.

Not really. Everything Wenger does or says is completely over analysed on here anyway, more often than not in a completely negative way by yourself, amongst others.

Wenger has said one or two signings, so you just disregard it. If he said no more signings, you'd take it as gospel and be *****ing about it in no time.

This thread was meant to be all hypothetical anyway, there's no harm in that all.

How long have you been around here? Do you really think that Wenger saying more signings actually equates to more signings? ... The hard evidence is ... it doesn't.

That does not mean that it will not happen, but to attack someone for being more than a little skeptical is a strange thing to do around these parts.

Nobody knows what this summer is going to bring ... the usual rules have been thrown out the window with TV's arrival. That put together with Arshavin's arrival and we are all totally thrown.

Still, we don't yet know who is leaving.

 

[atmosphere]

How long have you been around here? Do you really think that Wenger saying more signings actually equates to more signings? ... The hard evidence is ... it doesn't.

That does not mean that it will not happen, but to attack someone for being more than a little skeptical is a strange thing to do around these parts.

Nobody knows what this summer is going to bring ... the usual rules have been thrown out the window with TV's arrival. That put together with Arshavin's arrival and we are all totally thrown.

Still, we don't yet know who is leaving.

Been around where? How does the amount of time I've been 'here' (whereever that is) affect what actually is and isn't happening in terms of Arsenal Football Club?

Wenger has said we need to make some more experienced signings of a defensive nature and that he wants to wrap up the business early.

We signed Tommy V and we were the first club out of the top 4 to sign anyone... this would indicate so far that Wenger is doing what he said he would. Previous seasons have absolutely no relevance.

I'm not attacking anyone for being sceptical, I'm just tired of the negative mentality where people BELIEVE the things that Wenger says that go against what they wanna hear, but when he says something they want, they say he's lying or that you can't trust it or whatever.

It's all very childish.

 

[Webdesignlab]

How long have you been around here? Do you really think that Wenger saying more signings actually equates to more signings? ... The hard evidence is ... it doesn't.

That does not mean that it will not happen, but to attack someone for being more than a little skeptical is a strange thing to do around these parts.

Nobody knows what this summer is going to bring ... the usual rules have been thrown out the window with TV's arrival. That put together with Arshavin's arrival and we are all totally thrown.

Still, we don't yet know who is leaving.

Been around where? How does the amount of time I've been 'here' (whereever that is) affect what actually is and isn't happening in terms of Arsenal Football Club?

HERE, AM posting. An Arsenal fan ... If you want to think that I meant that I was more of a fan than you .... well, I did not mean that.

Wenger has said we need to make some more experienced signings of a defensive nature and that he wants to wrap up the business early.

Er? see above.

Previous seasons have absolutely no relevance.

Oh yes they do. We are all worried as hell because of previous seasons.

I'm not attacking anyone for being sceptical, I'm just tired of the negative mentality where people BELIEVE the things that Wenger says that go against what they wanna hear, but when he says something they want, they say he's lying or that you can't trust it or whatever.

It's all very childish,

Childish? What? ... to doubt Wenger, after the past 4 seasons of false promises (re transfers) is childish now? Blimey. LOL. Pass me my teddy.

This year is very different. Someone has got some money from somewhere and things are ... in our imagination at least ... moving fast. Though of course no more signings and a first choice CB leaves and we are nowhere again.

Best we wait until August/September to see things more clearly. That will have to include both being cynical and on the other hand ... naive.

 

[Biggus]

I'm not attacking anyone for being sceptical, I'm just tired of the negative mentality where people BELIEVE the things that Wenger says that go against what they wanna hear, but when he says something they want, they say he's lying or that you can't trust it or whatever.

It's all very childish.

What negative mentality? all I said is Wenger has to keep his cards close to his chest, and you just shot off because you saw the big bad Biggus above a post and didn't really read it.

Thats being childish. As Web says- who the f**k knows what Wenger is going to do this year.

 

[progman07]

There is still a formation, when the ball is out of play, or it's slow passing at the back, you can see the players keeping position. Without a structure, we'd look a complete mess.

Of course there is a different formation for defending and attacking, but it only means that the full-backs and the midfielders have both roles.

Interesting article, but it doesn't say much. Clearly, each player has different roles, the DM to win balls and close down the opponents, the strikers to score, but not very rigid, Touré can also score while RvP can also make clearances.

Which is what the article is trying to say.

Then it's a pointless article.

- Everyone knows this
- It has always been this way